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IN TOUCH – Wheelie bins; Becoming a new parent

TX:Ìý 07.07.2021Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý FERN LULHAM

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PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý BETH HEMMINGS

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Lulham

Good evening.Ìý It’s a great pleasure to be standing in for Peter White, to present this week’s edition of In Touch.

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Tonight:Ìý What’s it like becoming a parent when you’re visually impaired?

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You have all this time and nine months of pregnancy to be thinking about everything that you possibly think you’ll need to know and then you walk through the front door and you’re like – ha ha, I’ve got this small little human, what do I do now?

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Lulham

We talk to people who have recently become parents for the first time to hear their stories.

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But first, navigating pavements when you have little or no sight can be difficult at the best of times.Ìý Badly parked cars and street furniture often grab the headlines but for many of us bin collection days are even worse, with an endless stream of bins making the pavement seem more like an obstacle course.Ìý But now, North West Leicestershire Council has launched a consultation exercise, so that local residents can have their say on how they might pave their way to a solution.Ìý Well, we wanted to find out more about this, so I caught up with the Head of Community Services at North West Leicestershire Council, Paul Sanders, and I started by asking him – what had led the council to launch the consultation exercise?

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Sanders

A lot of the residents leave their bins out, sometimes for days on end, on the pavements.Ìý We’ve been receiving, over the last three, maybe four years, loads and loads of complaints from people that find it very difficult to get around these bins and often from people who are disabled – in wheelchairs – find it difficult to walk and often get pushed out on to the main road.Ìý We basically did a bit of a survey in terms of how many bins were left on the streets and it seemed like over a three period about 127 bins were just left out for one, two, three, four days.Ìý We put letters into every household.Ìý The idea is that they put their bins out between certain times and put them away between certain times.

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Lulham

But, of course, we know it can be the refuse crews themselves who are the guilty party at times, so what instructions do you give them and what happens if they don’t comply?

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Sanders

Crews will put them back in the place where our residents place them and, generally, if they’re not in a good place we ask them to sort of make them a bit tidier and make sure they’re considerate of other path and road users etc.Ìý But, obviously, if we have complaints, then we do have a word with the crews and sometimes this can be a disciplinary but we do train them and give them learning to make sure that they put the bins back nice and neatly and promote that good practice.

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Lulham

What options might you consider to solve the problem once the consultation exercise is complete?

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Sanders

In the notice that people got, we said – put them away by nine o’clock but we’re actually looking at perhaps asking people to put them away a bit later, maybe midnight, so people have a chance to get home from work etc., so I think we’re trying to be a bit flexible and that’s really been the main comment we’ve had back.Ìý And, obviously, if people do get some sort of fine, if it rolls out, people can present cases, so it’s not a cut and dried process but it does make sure that we can crack down on those people that are really spoiling it for the rest.

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Lulham

Well, we await the outcome of the consultation exercise with interest.Ìý And someone who we think might be particularly interested is Dan Gumbral.Ìý Dan is blind and a self-confessed veteran of battles with bins.Ìý I met him for a walk through his home town of Bexhill with his guide dog Reggie.

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Dan, we’re coming up to a bin, I think, so let’s see what Reggie does.

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Gumbral

Straight on, come on then.Ìý Straight on.Ìý See he has stopped.Ìý I’m sticking my hand out just to see what’s in front of me and there’s no way round that, so Reggie is having to go on the road now around this bin and that’s quite a bit of a bump there, as well, so there’s no way of getting round it.Ìý

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Lulham

So, you’re stepping off the kerb into the road.Ìý Nancy stepped off the kerb into the road as well.Ìý Get back on – ooh there’s a car coming now, so we’ve now got back on to the pavement.

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Gumbral

Yeah.Ìý And we’ll wait for it to go past.Ìý

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It’s very disorientating, first of all.Ìý I remember sort of veering off down people’s drives because of bins, walking into them and not knowing where I was, using a cane and with my guide dog.

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Lulham

You’ve currently got your lovely guide dog, Reggie, now, which would you say is harder to navigate bins with, is it a cane or is it a guide dog?

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Gumbral

Certainly a cane, using a cane was a lot more difficult.Ìý I remember when I was walking and I was in a bit of a rush to try and catch a bus and I remember there was a line of about three or four bins, empty, all empty, and I was navigating with my cane, moving quite fast, and knocked into a bin, it knocked over and then knocked into the next bin, it was a bit like dominoes and I think I did, actually, fall over.

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Lulham

How did that make you feel?

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Gumbral

It always feels like, you know, everyone’s watching you and incredibly embarrassing.Ìý I just had to get up, brush myself off and carry on really.

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Lulham

And is this only a problem on bin collection day?

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Gumbral

Locally I know that the bins are left out on a Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, so that is the majority days of the week.Ìý So, there was a bin left right in the middle of the pavement that me and Reggie had to navigate past, Reggie took me up on the grass, fell off the pavement side as well, on to the road – a real obstruction, right in the middle of the pavement there and difficult for Reggie to navigate past.Ìý They’ve got a driveway and space to be able to move their bin into.Ìý Sometimes it’s just lazy, the fact that they’re leaving their bins right in the middle there and no thought for anyone else who might be walking past.

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Lulham

Do you ever have problems with bags of rubbish where bins aren’t provided?

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Gumbral

There has been a few and the seagulls get them, rip them up and there’s rubbish all over the street.Ìý So, I have had that with Reggie before and that can be very distracting for him.

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Lulham

What do you think could be done to improve this situation, Dan?

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Gumbral

I think perhaps teaching local bin men and local residents in the communities about the problems that arise by leaving bins out in awkward places and I think it is education.Ìý A few of our neighbours, they obviously all know that I’ve got a guide dog and they, I must say, have been very good in terms of moving their bins on to their drives straightaway because I quite regularly walk past there with Reggie and used to do with a cane as well, I used to push their bins with my cane, so I think that’s how they knew.Ìý And now, yeah, without me having to say anything, they quite regularly move their bins into their drives out of the way of the pavement.

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Lulham

That’s Dan Gumbral.

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So, what can you do if bins are a problem in your area?Ìý Well, RNIB have produced guidance aptly titled Who Put That There and their senior legal advisor, Samantha Fothergill, joins me now.

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Samantha, we’ve just heard from Dan about the considerable problems that bins can cause visually impaired people, what does the law say about bins being left on pavements?

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Fothergill

Well, the law doesn’t say anything precise about bins but what it does say is that the councils have a duty to keep the highways free from obstruction and highways include footpaths and footways.Ìý So, the council are under a duty to keep it clear.Ìý And it’s also potentially a breach of the Equality Act because it’s sort of councils’ policies that are effectively – well ensuring that obstructions are all over the pavement.

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Lulham

And for some people the issue seems to be more about how long the bins are left on the pavement for but, to be honest, as a blind person, wherever possible, I’d rather they just weren’t there at all Samantha.Ìý Is that a reasonable expectation as far as the law is concerned?

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Fothergill

I think so because the council are supposed to keep the footways clear of obstruction.Ìý And so, bins should not be on the pavement unless there’s absolutely no other option, they should be looking at what alternatives, people should be keeping them in their front gardens, they should have more regular collections if it’s necessary to just have bin bags out to avoid the bins going there.Ìý So, the council should be thinking creatively about what they can do to just take the bins off the pavements completely but if they can’t take the bins off the pavement completely then they absolutely have to ensure that they are kept in places that are – in a regular –so they’re up against the wall, they’re not in the middle of pavements and definitely not where’s there’s not enough pavement and people are being forced on to the road.

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Lulham

And, so far, Samantha we’ve spoken in legal terms but short of taking legal action, what’s your advice to people whose pavements are being obstructed by bins?

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Fothergill

Well, I think first thing to do is to complain to the local council, to the refuse teams, to the greener council teams are usually some of the people responsible and ask them to take steps to remedy it.Ìý You should always point out that they have this duty to keep the highway free from obstruction, that you feel that you’re being discriminated and see what that does.Ìý You can also make a complaint to your local councillor about the situation.Ìý And there’s also lots of local groups that you can complain to, maybe local societies, you might have a local Living Streets group that are interested.Ìý So, there’s lots of options and obviously, legal action is always going to be the last option but it’s a tool in your armoury.Ìý And it probably is worth saying that actually although there’s very little case law on the Equality Act generally, a long, long time ago, in the days of the DDA, there was actually a case about bin bags on pavements where a wheelchair user had effectively got [indistinct words] in his house because the council had piled up bin bags near him.Ìý So, you know, the law is there to be used but, obviously, a last resort, make sure that you complain to your council and if they don’t remedy it, think about legal action.

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Lulham

Samantha Fothergill, thank you very much for your time.

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Well, do let us know if you’re having problems with bins and if you or your council are taking action to solve them.Ìý I’ll give you our contact details at the end of the programme.

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Now, recently, on our genetics special we touched on how genetic testing may or may not play a role in deciding to become a parent if you’re blind.Ìý But what is blind parenthood actually like in practice?Ìý

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Well, to throw some light on this subject I’m joined by Kate Crofts, Lead for Policy and Communications at Blind Parents UK, which is a support group for blind and visually impaired parents; Louise Muir who is severely sight impaired and mum to nine-month-old Edith and Katie and Jeremy, parents to sixth month old Jaden, Katie is blind and Jeremy is visually impaired.

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Katie, I’d like to come to you first.Ìý I think most people wonder if they’ll be able to cope when they’re thinking about having a baby and definitely, as a blind woman myself, who’d love to start a family at some point, there are particular things that worry me about it.Ìý So, what were some of your biggest fears about becoming a parent, Katie?

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Katie

Absolutely everything.Ìý Initially changing nappies, feeding him, making sure that he’s safe and also, for the future, because there’s quite a lot of things that I want to do with him, like I want to take him to the park, I want to be able to take him to the seaside and things like that and I worry about how I’m going to do that.Ìý If I ever want to do stuff on my own because I’m not very independent myself, especially going to unfamiliar places, so I worry about being able to do those kinds of things with him because I want him to have the best childhood ever.

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Lulham

And Louise, what about you, did you have similar concerns?

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Muir

As a prospective parent I was very apprehensive.Ìý There’s a lot to take on board, there’s a lot to think about both as someone with sight loss but also just the general thing of introducing a baby into your family, taking that responsibility and however prepared you might think you are, when the reality of having that baby in your arms, it’s definitely not the same as what the book reads or the antenatal classes prepare you for.Ìý And the questions of – am I doing that right, am I doing that wrong, what’s the best thing to do right now, what does this baby need.

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Lulham

And Katie, does Louise’s experience resonate with you or did you have a different experience?

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Katie

Similar, because of Jaden’s medical conditions and also because, as I say, I’m not very independent, we spent a long time in hospital.Ìý My partner, Jeremy, he’s here, he does quite a lot of, apart from feeding because I breastfeed Jaden, when we haven’t got support, he does pretty much everything else.

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Lulham

You’re quite a hands-on dad then Jeremy, do you think?

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Jeremy
I think I pretty much had to hit the ground running.Ìý I mean you’ve got all the things like changing nappies – I enjoy doing it, weirdly.Ìý And I enjoy giving him a bath and taking care, I’ll pick him up, he’s in my arms and because of his conditions I have to spend more time with him because I never thought I’d be measuring medicine and things like that and syringes and stuff in the morning, it’s very involved now and because his development is a little bit behind, I’m having to do more tummy time and putting him on me, so I’m leaning back and he's trying to look up, I feel like a very much hands on dad.Ìý And it was scary, I mean I had 24 hours to suddenly just become a full-on parent dad and it was like – I’m so glad I did and I love him to bits, I wouldn’t change it for the world.

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Lulham

One of my fears, when thinking about looking after a young baby, is, of course, for most people, when things go wrong.Ìý Louise, how do you know when, for example, if your baby isn’t well?

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Muir

This was a concern I had before I had a baby.Ìý You can tell.Ìý So, there’s that element of their behaviour, has their behaviour changed, has their temperament changed, are they quiet or are they crying more – there’s these signs that you can start to look out for.Ìý You get to know your baby and then you get to know when something’s out of sorts and then you go down the route of questioning that – why is that happening.

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Jeremy

One thing I was going to say – Jaden had hydrocephalus and…

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Katie

Which is water on the brain.

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Jeremy

Which is water on the brain.Ìý And we did everything we can with the medical profession, we saw a doctor and we had advice from some leading people and some things you have to – I mean I trusted Katie’s instinct on that – you have to trust your instinct because he was blue lighted to hospital and you know he was very seriously ill.Ìý So – but that is because Katie…

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Katie

His cries were different and he wasn’t – because obviously I’m feeding him like he’s usually a very hungry little boy and he wasn’t feeding so much.Ìý He was either just doing this really weird high-pitched cry or just sleeping and I was like – no – because normally he’s really giggly with Jeremy.

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Jeremy

And that stopped, so, trust your instincts, that’s the first rule I would say.

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Katie

Yeah, definitely, trust – if you think something’s wrong, more than likely it is.

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Lulham

And I suppose trusting your instincts to a certain degree comes down to confidence and, of course, regardless of how capable you might feel other people might question your abilities sometimes.Ìý Have any of you come across any negative attitudes like that?

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Jeremy

You do have a feeling that you’re labelled when you’ve got a visual impairment or disability, that you may be not 100% with your child.Ìý That felt that way even before we even had Jaden.Ìý But soon after they got the idea that we’re probably more on it because we’ve had so many medical things to deal with, we’ve really hit the ground running with Jaden and he’s a happy, very happy, cheerful little child.

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Katie

Yeah, once people see him, but most of the time when he’s not in pain or whatever or hungry, he is an incredibly happy little boy.

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Jeremy

And everyone sees that.

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Lulham

I want to turn now to Kate Crofts from Blind Parents UK.Ìý So, Kate, in your experience, what kinds of things do visually impaired parents ask for support with most often?

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Crofts

Oh yes, bottle preparation – we’ve actually got fact sheets and videos and things.Ìý The classic how to hold a baby – I mean you’ve already covered some of it with the others.Ìý Bathing, getting out and about, how to use different mobility aids as well as transporting a baby, so we have specialists in using different slings and ways of carrying babies and in the different types of buggies that can be pulled whilst you’re using a guide dog or a long cane.Ìý And then the practicalities of safety in the home.

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Lulham

And it strikes me that it can so often simply be confidence in our own abilities which makes us doubt ourselves, is that something that you can offer support with?

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Crofts

Entirely, yes.Ìý So, there is an emotional and wellbeing element to the work that we do and that includes the positive messaging and giving people the confidence.Ìý You know, Katie’s talked about not feeling as independent as she’d like to be, I would like to think with an ongoing connection to us in Blind Parents UK we can help with that, both enabling you to talk to others and hear how they have become more confident but also hearing that we’ve all had disasters and we’ve all had knocks of confidence and that’s okay.

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Lulham

Good to know that you’re not the only one with the nightmare nappies either isn’t it?

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And finally, I’d just like to ask each of you, what would you say to any blind or partially sighted person, much like myself, thinking about starting a family but wondering if they’ll be able to cope and Kate, I’ll start with you.

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Crofts

I actually started my journey earlier than I anticipated doing because I had a re-diagnose and I thought I’ve got to have my babies while I can still see a bit because I’m scared I won’t be able to do it if I lose all of my sight.Ìý And I was so wrong.Ìý In fact, if anything, when I stopped trying to do my parenting as a person with some sight and got on with using my other skills, I got better at it.Ìý So, I would say, don’t pre-judge yourself, think about the things that are important to you, your values in life, and if you want to create a new life where you impart those values to another, go for it.

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Lulham

Katie and Jeremy, what advice would you give?

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Katie

Mine would be ask for help, do not be afraid because sometimes I’m like – I feel like I should be able to do this on my own but you can’t always.Ìý I need to listen to my own advice sometimes.

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Lulham

Jeremy?

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Jeremy

You have to be prepared to put the time in, you have to say this child comes first and that’s it.Ìý Having a child is the most rewarding thing.Ìý When you smile at your child and they smile back or they giggle at you, there is nothing else like it in the world.

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Lulham

And last but not least, Louise your advice please?

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Muir

I tried to identify everything that I would need to be prepared for, so every possible eventuality and problem before I became a parent or before we were even, you know, trying to decide if we wanted to start a family or not.Ìý And I soon became overwhelmed by that and when I stopped trying to overthink it, it became a lot easier.Ìý And I think it is – do you want to start a family or don’t you – that’s the core question really.

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Lulham

Overthinking is something I can definitely relate to.

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Katie, Jeremy, Louise and Kate thank you all very much indeed.

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That’s all for this week.Ìý Do send us your views on anything you heard on this or any previous programmes, you can email intouch@bbc.co.uk and you can leave a message on 0161 8361338 or go to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch from where you can get more information or download tonight’s and many past editions of the programme.

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From me, Fern Lulham, producer Beth Hemmings and studio managers John Cole and Chris Hardman, goodbye.

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