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The Traitors is a format based on the Dutch series De Verraders and it's now popular all over the world. We talk to Mike Cotton, a reality TV expert who has also worked on Gogglebox, Naked Attraction, The Only Way is Essex and Undercover Boss, about what makes reality TV work.

And we explore the wider implications of The New York Times' legal action against artificial intelligence company OpenAI and Microsoft. The New York Times claims its copyright has been infringed because these companies use millions of its articles to train their AI models.

Plus, we explore the idea of the media gatekeeper with Neil Maggs whose new documentary A Spokesperson Said explores their role for Radio 4.

Guests: Mike Cotton, Deputy Creative Director, Studio Lambert; Claire Atkinson, founder, The Media Mix; Siobhan Synnot, TV critic; Vivian Schiller, Executive Director, Aspen Digital; Neil Maggs, journalist.

Producer: Simon Richardson

Presenter: Ros Atkins