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BONUS EP 6

ED: Before you listen to this episode of The Traitor's Uncloaked, please be warned, there is strong language throughout.

Welcome to this, your exclusive Ö÷²¥´óÐã Sounds extra bit of The Traitor's Uncloaked. Yes, Ö÷²¥´óÐã Sounds listeners, all of this is just for you, baby. We've got bonus chat from Traitor Paul in mere minutes.

But first, there was so much to cover with my guests Nish Kumar, Clara Amfo, and the brilliant Wilf from Series 1. So here's some extra debriefing that you didn't see on Ö÷²¥´óÐã2.

Let's have a look at the little debrief that Ross and Jazz had after the roundtable:

VIDEO CLIP

ROSS: Oh man, I'm so sorry, man. Like, that's all I can say. It's really sorry. Like, not only did you vote for me, but you were trying to get other people on board. I've got no defence, mate, haven't I? How the hell can I trust you now? I feel so guilty. Not only did I go against the team, but also he turned me against Jazz. I made the worst decision I've possibly made yet. So, I have messed up and I kind of put myself on the chopping block. All I can say, man, is I've not been recruited. I promise. Like, I promise you, right? I thought I was a goner. Right. Because of you.

ED: Tense. He is dead to Jazz. I think, because Jazz is an amazing player. Yeah. And has done amazing with Paul and, you know, I think, I think he's a very, very good player and knows how to bide his time. But sometimes he does take things personally. Mm. And I think this might be one of those occasions. Because the way Ross was talking there, I wouldn't assume Ross was a traitor based on that. Because he's literally gone, uh, uh, uh. I did it. Sorry. Whoopsie.

WILF: But you know Jazz, what I think is really good about Jazz, not just in this moment is the fact that when he has had suspicions, he has kept it to his chest, like kept it down because you can't say it too much because it makes you vulnerable. You can't not say it. You have to sort of know the right time to say it. And his execution on Paul as well. He was a massive part of that. He did it at the right time because we he knew like three episodes, right? Two, three episodes, he could have acted on that. And he probably would have gone because of it.

So he sat on it and sort of whispered to a few people, obviously whispered to Harry, which that could be a detrimental thing that could come back in the future, that Harry could be one because he why would Harry tell Paul? Does that make sense? So in that moment, I think Jazz has finally got it off his chest, but at the same time, it's like, I think now I've got, might have a target on mine, so.

CLARA: And he's been quite a background player so far, actually. I think Jazz has been playing it quite quietly, so.

ED: I think he knows he doesn't have clout, as well. Yeah. And he can see, he can see the whole hierarchy of who's got power and who hasn't in there. And he knows that he doesn't necessarily have clout to be the first person to bring something up. So he needs to just subtly sow seeds and hope that someone with a bit more power brings it up. I think he's a really, really good player. And his name is spelt with one Z. I cannot believe that they're still at this stage and doing such wildly different names.

CLARA: Actually, whilst we're on there, can we talk about the Johnny? People getting rid of Johnny as well. Johnny's name was spelt without an H, right?

ED: Yeah, well, not, not in the game. I mean, they went with some, some people went with two H's.

CLARA: Yeah! There, there were some very wild spellings of his name and it really made me feel great.

ED: Also, who, who knew how, uh, there were so many different ways to spell Sonia as well?

NISH: It's just It's my absolute favourite thing because someone will sit there and say Look, you've just, you've changed so much. You're not the person that I met two days ago. And also, I'm going to show how little I know you by flipping a card over where I've spelt your name completely wrong. Not just everywhere. Surely at some point someone just has a quick chat and just goes just before we go in, I'm not going to write your name, but how do you spell it?

ED: Um, we should quickly talk about the mission as well, uh, on this episode, which is of course, uh, the firing a crossbow. It's not a crossbow. It's a baluster.Zach's performance in this mission was quite something. I think to claim that you're good at crossbow because you once fired one at Centre Parcs with your dad is bold. I wouldn't go into anything like that going, I'm good at this before I'd done it.

NISH: I sort of am warming to Zach.

ED: I love the guy. I enjoy him as well.

NISH: I really, I really like the, I just think, I think there's always moments where people Like, there's something very human about those kind of moments on the show where someone just completely fails at something. And Zac just watching the arrow, I mean, it was an absolute dribble of piss. The way that he shot it, and then he was like, well, the system's broken. And then everyone else is sort of shooting it into the ceiling, knocking out light fittings, and then he comes back up, and again, it just goes

ED: But what I love about that is, I think if I did that, if I went, I'm really good at crossbow, and then failed, I'd be so embarrassed. He doesn't care. He doesn't care.

CLARA: That's why I'm warming to him.

NISH: That's why I love him.

ED: I know you're going to say, yes, of course, there's better choices. Who do we think would have been a better choice to recruit as a traitor?

CLARA: Zak, absolutely.

ED: Do you think Zak?

CLARA: Zak is very, very shrewd, and I think he's smart. He was so perceptive and I loved how he went in on Paul cause at first I thought he was gonna change his mind. At the last minute, cause people were swaying him, you know, and everyone was like, well, actually, um, whenever he started turning on jazz, I thought Zach was going to be, uh, turned that way. But I loved that he stuck to his conviction. So I think he almost, I think he actually did that on purpose. I think he allowed people to think that he changed his mind. So when he went in for the juggling with Paul, I was like, yes, but I think Zach will be an excellent traitor.

WILF: There's two things you've got to look at. As a traitor you probably want to pick someone who is going to crumble. Yeah. So you can be like, Look, they look like they've been reviewed. You want a patsy, right? Yeah, you look at them, they look, they've changed. If I wanted to pick somebody who was actually really strong, I think I'd pick Jasmine. She's a strong woman, you know. She's smart. Yeah, she's very smart. I think she'd enjoy it. I think at the beginning, she did say she wanted to be a traitor. I'm pretty sure. So if she came in, I think she'd be. happier about it.

ED: It's Banished Traitor Paul!

Okay, Paul, we're going to get straight into this. Okay. We're going to talk about your fellow traitors, including recruits, and I want an honest appraisal of their performance.

PAUL: Okay.

ED: So first of all, your first recruit was Miles.

PAUL: Yep.

ED: How do you, how do you think Miles did?

PAUL: So, uh, so the reason we recruited Miles, because it's funny, It, on TV, it only looks like a really short space of time you've had together, but we actually had loads of time, and there was no doubt in my mind that we were going to recruit Miles. So he's, I thought he was perfect for it. I don't think he liked it, and I don't think he fully knew where to land with it. So we did the I don't know. I haven't got anything. There was a couple of, um, conversations we had where he was like, I'm still on three round tables ago. I don't even know what's happening now. That type of thing. So I think he didn't really like it too much or didn't want to do it. It sort of was work.

ED: That technique was working up until the Poison Chalice because we were certainly on Uncloaked talking about how much suspicion was on each traitor. We have the scoreboard of suspicion and Miles was like, off the bottom of the board. Like no one thought it was Miles.

PAUL: Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's why him giving the chalice to Diane, it kind of felt like it was an opportunity for everybody to look at miles. And then when you look at, uh, in the daytime, a lot of people then started mentioning his name. Um, and then obviously that then became his demise.

WILF: I think it's interesting because like you're saying, Ed, at the beginning, you can sort of go with the herd mentality, sort of, I don't know, I'm just going to sort of go with the flow. But then when you haven't got any sort of opinion around the round table, everybody sees you as irrelevant. So they're like, they're not contributing. So let's just get them out anyway. Yeah. They're not contributing, trying to find one.

ED: Bad faithful. Which is a, which is a phrase that was slung around quite a lot. While you were there.

PAUL: And do you know what? We're so proud of that bit because we started planting these seeds and it started with Sonia. So we literally went into gear straight away and it started being Oh, well, actually, is she just a really good faithful or really good traitor? Like, what do you think? And I think that kind of planted the seed for people to go, Oh, my God, that's a huge risk. We need to vote for Sonia. Yeah, then we started planting the seeds of like, or made like Anthony for argument's sake. He's just a bad faithful. He's kind of being combative. And he's kind of fighting against people.

WILF: I love how he changes his voice to like the traitors.

ALL: Yeah.

ED: But it was it was amazing. There was an amazing example of it. Um, it was, it was Harry talking to Andrew and about Zach and Harry was like, I think he, I don't know if he's a traitor or maybe, maybe it's just a bad faithful. He got to the round table and Andrew goes, to be honest with you, Zach, I think you're a bad faithful. You're like, that is worked perfectly.\

ALL: Yeah. Yeah.

PAUL: And we were so proud of ourselves. Like when we'd sat around that table and something like that would come up, we would literally felt so in control. And every time something like that would happen, we would just sit back and we would just watch kind of the chaos because we know that we're safe for one more table. Now we, when that was all happening, all I was thinking of, okay, well, who should we get rid of tonight to set up tomorrow and do this and do that? And it was just, uh, yeah, the bad faithful, all that. did stick around.

WILF: Don't you feel like a little bit of guilt? Because I remember sitting there and you've planted these seeds and you have faithfuls going at each other.

Some of them are crying and getting emotional. Did you ever feel guilty about that? Because I remember thinking, Oh my God, I've made this happen. and feeling really guilty, even though I knew it was good.

ED: Paul also thought that, but with a very different reaction. I made this happen!

WILF: No, I think because I didn't want to break, I didn't feel any guilt when I was in there. Now when I look back, if I thought about it long enough, then yeah, of course you'd feel guilty from it. But when I was there, We want to win, right? It's a game. Be different if we actually killed them, you know, that'd probably weigh on me a little bit.

ED: It wouldn't be on telly, for example.

PAUL: Yeah, yeah, for argument's sake, yeah. But no, when I was in there, because I feel like as soon as I started to think like that, I think I would just, I'd break character and I would just kind of, it would put me off being a traitor type of thing if I went in that mode.

ED: We should talk, we should talk about Ash now. We've rated Miles. Now, obviously, you guys turned on Ash pretty quickly. Did you, did you expect that you were going to go in there and get a traitor out so quickly?

PAUL: I think when we got told that we were going to recruit, it felt like a lot and Ash, I have such a funny opinion on Ash. So Ash at the start, we only spent a few days together, et cetera, but it's a long time. And when we were watching her behaviours and mannerisms, she just looked like a traitor. And if I was a faithful, I would have spotted that. And I think a lot of the table also spotted that as well. So when we all first voted, I think I voted for Jazz and a lot of people voted for, for Ash. Um, but. The thing that I really love about Ash is when she knew that her time was up, right? And at that round table, she didn't throw anybody under the bus. And she so easily could have. Yeah. She took it and she just said, okay, and she voted for Evie. So when I look at Ash, I would say she was a poor. Traitor. She didn't perform well as a traitor in the early stages, but at that round table, she was the best traitor out of all of us.

ED: She was loyal, but I think Ash was playing series one as a traitor because that was, it took you guys so much longer to start turning on. Yeah, but it felt like series one on fast forward. Like you were just immediately like straight away…

PAUL: Cause we all knew the game. And like, as soon as we went into that turret, we were like. We need to be a strong force here. And then I also thought if Ash didn't go when she went, then all of us are still up to her suspicion again.

WILL: Diane always thought you was a hundred percent faithful. Yeah, so I think poisoning Diane was a re, was a, was a weak move because she was your person to back you at the round table, vote with you, or you could vote with her.

PAUL: Yeah,

WILL: Keep that alliance going.

ED: So I think that was a little bit of always a fear with Diane, that if she suddenly did suspect you, that was it. And she did suspect everyone at one point. Curiously, the one she gave birth to. No, even him. Even him. She started going, I am a bit paranoid. Like, why am I still here? It's Ross keeping me safe. You're like, right, you suspect your own son.

PAUL: It’s bonkers, isn't it? But I think Diane was an interesting one. But Diane. was almost a way of giving the team miles because Diane was actually a huge backer of miles. And there's even a bit in the episode where she's like, joke me. Well, you gave me a drink. Yeah, you were traitor. Yeah, she didn't believe for one second. Or if we had to give it couldn't be me couldn't be Harry had to be Miles because me and Harry felt like we were a bit of a team. Then Diane has to go first, because everyone believes Diane and Diane says that it was miles the team gets a traitor and then we can go on and win it.

ED: I do want to talk about that moment. After the first time that you and Harry had tried to banish Ash. Oh my goodness, yeah. And you had to go back to the tunnel. You okay?

PAUL: Are you okay? Are you okay?

ED: The speed with which you managed to convince her that it was the right thing to do was quite astonishing.

PAUL: Yeah, but I think when, when we were there, so we voted for Ash the second time round, didn't we? So we didn't actually go all guns blazing, we need to get you out. But going by what everyone was saying around the table, it would look more curious for me and Harry to have not have gone for Ash because it's like, well, why didn't Paul go for Ash if we trust him?

You know, so I have to be a faithful as well. But then when we went into the turret, I didn't feel any type of nervousness about it because I just thought, well, what I'm going to say to her is you're being caught out quite a lot. Your name's being brought up. You have to kind of try and hide it better. Be a good faithful, do all this type of stuff. But then when I seen her reaction and what she was like, and I need to. Her thing was always, I need to start playing the game now. I need to start getting into it. And I was thinking, we're three days in or four days in.

CLARA: And she said it herself when she left it. She had, Poker Face is terrible.

PAUL: Yeah, she's got a bad poker face. Exactly. So like, I feel as a, as a team, as a group of faithfuls, we all found a traitor.

WILL: And the thing is, when you're there, it's, you have this unconscious knowing that, is that the right word? It's like, you unconsciously know that, you have this pact with other traders that if you have to vote against them, you will toÌý save yourself. And you sort of accept that. Yeah. Without vocalizing it. You're sort of like, cool. I know they're gonna have to vote for me at some point if the heat's on me and I accept that. Yeah. Yeah. You sort of know that as a team.

ED: Yeah, but it didn't feel like getting ash out was the heat was on you.

PAUL: It felt like let's put the heat on ash. It felt more of the team need to find a traitor. And there's, there's almost one extra, there's four of us now. So we feel a bit overweight. So it felt like can we give the team a traitor and then whoever calls out that traitor and finds them is going to kind of be hidden away, they did really well finding that. So that there was kind of that rhetoric to it as well. But it was, um, when she left, I was sorry when she was at the round table and she said, It's Evie or something. I thought that's just glorious. Yeah. I thought he was really well played.

ED: Um, we, we did, we did discuss him in the, in the main show, but let's talk more about Andrew as a recruit. Obviously, Andrew knows that he's there to be thrown under the bus because he's seen every other traitor thrown under the bus at that point. The fact he couldn't keep that bottled up which you should do around the traitors, when you and you've just got to trust us Andrew and he went trust you

PAUL: I know he couldn't he couldn't separate from the but I didn't mean how he both knew that we were done for, well, I mean that the plan was obviously bring him in and he was gonna be father and get rid of him but I think because of the the Charlotte comment with Harry, it sent Harry into a huge tears, kind of like what you were saying, paranoia with Amanda. And then and absolutely fair play to Harry, because I could have done that. And I've just done it to Miles. So why wouldn't I? So obviously he has to go for me. And there's a really interesting moment when he calls me out at the table. And I say, Oh, actually, mate, it wasn't me. And I think Jasmine and Ross were like, No, it wasn't Harry. You see him kind of go like this and rub his face. There's a little bit, he probably also thought I'm gonna have to see Paul in the turret tonight. And he's gonna tell me off. But then you sort of, you saw him go home, I got the wrong information. And I've started on this path now. I've got to do it now. I have to finish it. And when he did it, I had no ill will towards him whatsoever. And hence, that's why I didn't go. Because Harry was acting a bit sketchy during that day over the shield. And he was like, Oh, why is everyone going for me and stuff? And it was like, he's popping his head up a little bit.

ED: So you could have, you could have put the boot in a little bit before.

PAUL: Oh, I could have planted seeds for Harry. Yeah, a hundred percent. But then, yeah, but it wasn't, it wasn't in my game.

ED: Do you think you ever underestimated Harry? Because we've spoken a lot about you, you saying like you're, you're the Darth Vader or, you know, you were the one in charge of the Traitors because, and we've said that on this show as well, that Harry was in your shadow a little bit and following what you said. Do you think there might be any truth to the fact he's been planning this all along and has just been biding his time?

PAUL: Oh, 100%. There's no way that I ever thought that Harry was like beneath me or like, I mean, I would lay out the strategies, but he would also put a lot of input into them as well. And I think it's really interesting. I kind of hit the ground running, like this is what we're going to do. And I think Harry, it probably took him a couple of days, three, four days. to kind of understand, Oh, actually, you know, maybe, yeah, we should be doing this. So I think he grew into the role just as I was kind of falling out of it. And it did literally feel like that kind of Star Wars moment. And you know, now he's absolutely flying and the president of the faithful.

ED: We've got to talk about the huge reveal that Diane, uh, is Ross's mum, the biggest. How did you feel when you, when, when did you find out?

PAUL: After, so, so we left, I left, and then, um, after the show I got given a scroll, and it was, okay, we've got a, you know, a thing for you. And I thought, Oh my God, I might be going back in it. You know what I mean? Um, and I love, of course you thought, Oh my God, this is all about me.

ED: I think I'm so good. I'm so good. They're putting me straight back in.

PAUL: And then I opened it. It said something like there is one more reveal or there's one more secret we need to tell you. And it was that Ross and Diana, mother and son. Oh my God. It's bonkers because Zack, we need to talk about Zack maybe a little bit because I think Jazz had me in his crosshairs, but I don't think he had good enough evidence. Whereas Zack, and I think Zack, because of his personality, got a little bit of heat from the group. We shouldn't be judging people on their personalities, judging on their evidence, right? And he was amazing at getting me every time he came for me. And I did think it's a huge victory for him when I went, but yeah, the, the, the Diane and Ross thing, no one guessed it. You know, he obviously guessed a mother and son, he just got the wrong son, but it's magnificent. And seeing Ross doing the winks and the Sunday dinner comment, it's just genius.

ED: Because of course there was the funeral episode, where Ross had to stand there and watch Diane be slammed into a coffin. I guess you're there at the time, you're not realising the absolute sort of horrific Greek tragedy that's unfolding in front of you.

PAUL: It was absolutely, so as soon as I found that out I went, oh my god, because Ross was obviously a huge backer of me, he absolutely loved me. And even at the end, like when he was going, oh Paul, you're afraid I was looking, I was going, shut up Ross. Please stop talking. Stop saying that. Stop saying like, if Paul's a traitor, then you've got a banish me tomorrow. Yeah. Ross, please. So as soon as I seen that, I was like, oh my God, we killed Ross's mom. Like, and that's like a huge moment. Yeah. And then. The I felt really bad because seeing the emotion that he's going through, and of course, it's a game. But when we're in there, it doesn't really feel like it. And to the people at home, it doesn't feel like it. So yeah, that was just, I mean, Diane is the strongest person in the world. So she took it and you could see her stoic face just..

ED: Oh, my God, we spoke to Diane. And I said, Oh, that must have been really weird. Being at your funeral, and then your son's there and must be weird for him. She couldn't have given a shit. She was like, yeah, we're from a family of actors. We've seen, you know, uh, my daughter hit by a bus on a TV show and you know, like they, yeah, they're, they're, they're strong. They're a strong bunch.

PAUL: Yeah. She's, I mean, she's amazing. She is the mother of the group and we, and we loved her in there and it was. Yeah, it added that next level. I mean, that was an emotional episode as it was, but I mean, that is just next level to watch your mother go through that, isn't it?

CLARA: How did you keep a straight face with the choir? Yeah, because that was hilarious. I'm sorry.

ALL: It was hilarious.

PAUL: That's the best question. We were laughing loads. The person who was..like me, Diane and Evie were just walking along and it was just kind of like, this is so bizarre. Just, just crazy. That was a crazy day. I'm getting in my own coffin.

ED: Did you ever think you'd be standing there with Claudia Winkleman and a random choir and then burying people this time last year?

PAUL: No, absolutely. Yeah. Or just lying in my own coffin, pretending to shape. And then every now and again going, ooh. And then Andrew was dead funny. Time again, guys, you really commit to that bit. I really missed the whole lot because I was the closest in and because I'm so tall and my feet is so big, I thought they can see my legs. So like my mind's in overdrive, I'm thinking, am I gonna fit in the coffin?

ED: We've asked you for your rating of the other traders point. Oh yes. But what I want to uh, do is ask wealth. how he rates you as a traitor. Wow. Huge moment.

WILF: Do you know what? I think, I'll be completely honest, I think you're the most entertaining traitor that's been so far. And I've watched every season near enough in the world, right? I think you, you embrace the game better than most people. I think you and Amanda, I've said it loads of times. were able to try your hardest to take the emotion away and play the game. I think you started really well, but I think you made quite a few mistakes along the way. In terms of the dungeon, the dungeon was the biggest one for me. The dungeon was the worst one. And then after that it sort of snowballed and it was come in and then Jazz was on it and then he was planting it. But I think, I think you did really well. And you was the best to watch on TV. I'm quite sad he's gone because I love the evilness of it.

PAUL: Thank you mate.

ED: Were there, were there any murders that you think were a mistake?

PAUL: Um, no, I don't think so. I think we did it well. I think we kept the randomness up. Um. We got rid of people that had, it's so funny that there's kind of like a rhetoric we have to stick to where it's like, if you have no influence on the group, and you're no threat, you kind of put yourself into this position of, well, your kind of fodder, so you might need to be killed. If you're a faithful, and you're being a distraction like Anthony. Wonderful. When he started speaking at that round table, I would just sit back. This is amazing because he's going to talk himself into trouble. Brian was another one as well. Aw, poor Brian.

ALL: Poor Brian.

PAUL: And I didn't vote for Brian because it's so, you've got to be a faithful and not just follow people like a sheep like Brian. But, um, bless him.

ED: But those early stages of the game, if anyone puts their head above the parapet for any reason, they're gonna, they're gonna be voted for. So as a traitor, you just, you are just sitting back and hoping that happens.

PAUL: Yeah, you kind of sit back. I mean, I really interesting one for me, which is just so bizarre. Even looking back, he's coming back from the dungeon. I got an accusation. I had no comeback. I just said, I don't really know if it's Johnny, it's gonna hurt. Everyone just went on to Johnny. Why didn't they just go, Paul, that's a terrible, you've got no thing you've done none of this, none of that.

ED: That's a great way of making an accusation though, going, well, if it's him, it's really gonna hurt because you've not actually made an accusation. I, I've not, yeah, you just said someone's name. It's like McCarthyism.

PAUL: It literally is, but, and it's funny that the guys around the table, they do like, for argument's sake, if you look at, um, the Miles Banishment now, Miles's name came up loads between all of the other guys in the cars. Oh, well, it must be Miles. And even Harry was like, oh, you know, it must be Miles. But then when we got to the round table, because no one else wants to put the head above the parapet, they then go, well Paul, this is all on you if you think it's Miles and you want to convince us. And it was like, oh, but all of you, even Evie, at that point who had evidence and it was either out of Evie and Miles who gave the drink. She would rather be perceived as a traitor than agree with something. that Diane said to me and Evie.

ED: Well that was really interesting, this might be far too specific, but that Evie moment was incredible because you said, Diane's said to me, if I go it's Miles, which she did say, even though she denies being that specific, she did say that, and Evie was stood there, but at the round table Evie went, I didn't really hear anything, I don't know.

PAUL: But then she did say, oh I didn't hear anything, and I was like, but you, you did hear Jazz and Miles, she's like, oh, well, yeah, and it's like. What? I don't know what's happening because she was only making herself look more guilty in my opinion.

ED: Will, I wanted to ask you, is there anything that you learned from your time in series one that you then take into a different series? What would you do differently as a traitor?

WILF: I would never change anything that happened in season one. I would never change. I think the best thing I did was lose. That moment when I've looked really sad, waiting for them to look at me and me say I'm a traitor is amazing point where I'm like, I just smile at them. Yeah, I'm a traitor. And you feel so much relief. And you're like, this is it. And that moment was for me, people got to see who I actually really am, who I really am in that little split second.

ED: What about you, Paul?

PAUL: I wouldn't change anything. I've got no game plans. Almost exactly the same. Like I would do. Well, actually, I think I'd be less arrogant. I think I would be more kind of like, okay, what's the long game here instead of what what's the the absolute next move that I need to do to carry on. I think I'd be a little bit softer. Um, but, but yeah, I think I wouldn't change anything. There's always hindsight, isn't there? But I could look back and go, Oh, well, if I was a bit softer, I might have been the first Traitor to go. Or if I didn't go in the dungeon, I might've been on the surface and something could have happened. I could have gone that episode. So I think the best thing to do is just have no regrets.

ED: How's it been since the show started going out? Are you being recognised in public?

PAUL: So, uh, on the way down here, I'm just sat, and I'm listening to a podcast, and, um, the next minute, a girl comes over to me, and I thought she just wanted to sit next to me. The handsome and all that type of stuff. And then Sorry, who am I again?Ìý And she said, Oh, are you Paul from the Traitors? But I need to busy training. I was like, Oh, yeah, that's me. She was like, my grandma loves you. I was like, Oh, thank God for that. And she said, and then she kind of like lingered and I was like, Oh, we'll have a lovely day. And she said, can I just have a selfie with you? And she had like this selfie. And then when I got off at the train station, I was walking down and someone's gone, excuse me. And I was thinking, Oh, my God, here we go. And it was other people. They said, can we have a selfie with you? And then just gave me the phone. And I was like, well, what do I do? So then I've, I've kind of stretched my arm out and they've got selfie arms, man. Well, I've got long arms. But then they just kind of lynched onto each side of me. And I had to do this selfie. And then what? So it's very bonkers. But positive, positive. Yeah, positive. And I think even when like, you know, when you look online, like, even me at the end, I'm going, we need to get rid of this guy. Like, he has to get out of the show, you know, he's so cocky and all that type of stuff. So you know, it's. It's unbelievable, but it's such a great way to leave the show as well is such an explosive episode.

ED: And like we said it's a Diane as well If you if you're gonna be out the show midway through you want to go with a bang and that's what you've done

PAUL: And to see everyone's elation I mean, there's a chair that flies across the room and the noise of that was just I was buzzing when I left. I went round the corner, I could still hear people just yelling and screaming.

ED: Had you planned on the bow or did the bow come naturally?

PAUL: I didn’t plan on the bow. I planned to stand up and just thank everyone, say, you know, love you all and go. But as soon as I did it that day, and I was rubbing people's arms as I walked past, as if to say, you know, you've made the such a wrong decision here. And then when I started, even at that, even at that point, yeah, I was was I walked past, um, Charlotte and you know, like I rubbed the shoulder and then Ross, I did the same thing as say, you know, like

ED: But even when you're about to reveal that, you have to reveal that.

PAUL: Yeah. I wanted to give them like the end bit of like, I'm gonna make you hold on.

CLARA: And those two loved you.

PAUL: Oh my God. And they loved me. And even jazz, you know, like was looking all frightened. So when I said it, everyone erupted and I thought. Well, that is like my final act. I'm just going to bow. And then I just did it. Total improv. That's what it felt like, unseen, and then, you know, go and live your life type of thing.

ED: How do you reflect on your traitor's experience now?

PAUL: I loved it. I have no regrets. I think I think you've seen kind of like me trying to be the villain and doing that act but then I think there was also a sensitive bit of me at the end that just couldn't keep up with it and I would much rather have gone through and done everything that I did and just have no regrets that I gave it my best shot. I did want to be entertaining and like if you're gonna make me a villain then I'm gonna, you know, give it my best shot.

WILF: People will love you more for losing as well. So don't worry. Good.

ED: What advice would you give, uh, to anyone who's hoping to apply for series three of the Traitors? Just don't hold back because it is, it's a finite amount of time, like when you look back, but it's a long period of time away from your family and your friends and your loved ones. And you're only going to get it once. So you have to be everything that you are or everything that you want to be. If you're a traitor, go and be the best traitor you can possibly be. If you're a faithful, then, you know, duck and hide.

ED: And if you want to be, if you want to be a traitor, when Claudia is interviewing you and asks you for three words to describe yourself, use the word cruel.

PAUL: Use the word cruel, yeah. But it's a job interview to be a traitor. Like, if I went in there and said, you know, She said three words if I went, you know, cuddly, positive, and friendly. She wouldn't go, oh, you're going to be a traitor, aren't you?

ED: But you literally use the word cruel and traitor.

PAUL: Yeah, yeah, exactly right, yeah.

ED: It's like, can you give us some of your weaknesses? I work too hard. I'm a perfectionist. I think I just murder too much.

Now, if you're listening to this and you've been inspired by Paul and indeed Wilf, you've only got until February 11th to apply to be on the next series of The Traitors. So hurry! All you need to do is go to bbc.co. uk forward slash shows and tours and click on the take part page and we could be watching you enjoy Breakfast in the Castle in series three. Good luck. Uh, Nish, Clara, Wilf and of course Paul, thank you so much for being on Uncloaked! And thanks to you for listening to our Bonus Ö÷²¥´óÐã Sounds episode. As soon as you've watched the next episode of The Traitors, come straight here for all the reactions. We will be joined by whoever gets the chop next. They'll be here and they will tell us everything. Until then, goodbye!

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