Part 1: Wikileaks "Cablegate": Information Overload. Part 2: What can student protests achieve?
|
Monday, 11 Nov. 2010
|18:00 - 19:00 GMT
主播大秀56789 主播大秀12345/1234567 ENG517FOR1?!LOL 29/11/10 Bush House London Memo from World Have Your Say producer XXXXXXXXX to WHYS editor
Morning XXXXXXXX -
Wikileaks has done it again. The website has thousands of secret documents - this time US diplomatic cables between the State department and American embassies around the world - and now they've begun to publish them.
The thing is (keep it between ourselves, save my blushes!), despite my years of journalistic training and experience, I don't know where to start this morning.
You probably know they say they've got 251,287 documents in total. They're publishing the documents here (although only 226 have been published at the time of writing). Five newspapers - Guardian, New York Times, El Pais, Le Monde and Der Spiegel - already have access to all of the documents.
I'm stuck. I don't know which of the revelations should be our focus today on WHYS. Frankly, any one of the following claims / disclosures would be a big talking point on its own (and as you can see from the links, different writers around the world are picking out different aspects that matter to them ...)
1. Accusations that US diplomats were ordered to spy on UN officials. One section in this cable talks about gathering "biographic and biometric information on UN Security Council permanent representatives".
2. Saudi Arabia strongly advocates a military strike on Iran. King Abdullah apparently likens such an attack to "cutting the head off the snake"; the rulers of Bahrain and Abu Dhabi are also quoted. However, Firdaus on our Facebook page notes " it merely confirms the opinions of many MidEast countries against Iran" (presumably opinions he suspected they had anyway)
3. A stand-off over nuclear fuel in Pakistan. Cables published in the New York Times report the US has been trying to removed enriched uranium from Pakistani reactors since 2007.
4. Personal comments about world leaders. You don't have to read Spanish to see that El Pais believes this to be the most interesting angle, with pictures of Gaddafi, Hu Jintao, etc at the top of the page, next to quotes about them. Putin is "an alpha-dog", according to one cable. President Ahmedinehad is described as "Hitler".
5. Yemen's President Saleh covering for the US, claiming responsibility for attacks on militants there in fact carried out by American drones. "We'll continue saying the bombs are ours, not yours," he's quoted as saying in January.
6. China's Politburo directed a hack attack on Google last year. The cables also talk about a campaign of sabotage directed against other targets, including the US government and the Dalai Lama.
7. US Drug Enforcement Agents working in the UAE found $52 million in cash on the visiting Vice President of Afghanistan. He didn't explain where the money had come from, or where it was going to.
... and many many more (take your pick!). And that's before getting into the whole area of whether or not to publish in the first place. There are various pieces describing that quandary.
On Twitter, some almost gleefully compare the Wikileaks release to the hot topic of US airline security; take @fenrir:
Dear government: as you keep telling us, if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to fear
If you could help out with this, it would be appreciated ... Let me know what you think is the most important thing to focus on.
Does any of it really surprise you?! Maybe it shows the great lengths America is going to in order to keep the world safe? Maybe we go for something like the Times Of India headline:
US v Wikileaks: whose side are you on?
Thanks - hope you enjoyed the cricket overnight!
Your comments
Comment sent via YOURSAY
18:57
113631290
BUT:
David in San Francisco emailed -
I am not sure where in the USA or England where it is written that EDUCATION is a Right? I think your guests need to brush up on what the Government its actually responsible for.
Comment sent via YOURSAY
18:57
113631290
James in Arkansas, US, emailed -
"Free" education and "free" basic health care ought to be a demand that all people of all nations refuse to compromise on. The only result from denying these rights is a sick uneducated society - like America. Our stupidity is astounding!
Comment sent via Facebook
18:41
113631290
Bashir on Facebook -
We have to create a condusive environment for our students. Protests are one way to create a better world for ourselves.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:41
113631290
Richard on Facebook -
When politicians promise something and then do the exact opposite, it seems very insulting and condescending to ask whether the people who supported them because of that promise should protest.
Comment sent via SMS
18:38
108513545
Is that "students revolting", or "revolting students " ? Either way, keep it up ! Banks, amsterdam
Comment sent via Facebook
18:36
113631290
Ali in Uganda posted on our Facebook page
In my view, students should study hard and influence society with their achievements.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:36
113631290
Ankur in India wrote on Facebook
A line should be drawn and students have to understand that unnecessary protests do nothing but hinder proper functioning of the educational institute.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:36
113631290
Mutugi in Kenya writes on Facebook
Kenya is the international centre for student unrest! However, Very few cases of student protests here (if at all any) are justifiable! Rowdy kids will take to the streets any day and cause wanton destruction just because they fear sitting for exams!
Comment sent via Facebook
18:36
113631290
Zualteii wrote on Facebook
I have a sneaky suspicion that students can be insidiously bent on creating anarchy. Most are after all young people without much experience of life and their idealism can get quite unrealistic and impractical.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:35
113631290
Bayo in Nigeria posted on Facebook
a student body is also a pressure group and part of a larger society. they have the right and responsibility to protest unless we want to argue that they're insulated from the society which they live.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:34
113631290
Justice writes on Facebook
students should protest and engage in politics on campuses, that helps in shaping future leaders
Comment sent via Facebook
18:34
113631290
Julie posted on Facebook
Protesting is part of the student experience. Uni opens a whole new world to young students, raising their cultural and political awareness. Actually participating in and/or organizing is a healthy part of this process. In the end they become better participants in the democratic process.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:35
113631290
Mohamed in Tunisia writes on Facebook
students have the right to protest against any policy that might put their future at risk, personally, I don't see any contradiction between appealing for better conditions and the prospect of becoming a leader in the future.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:34
113631290
Sanousi in Sierra Leone posted on our Facebook page
Students are part of the make-up of any society, and as such have the right the express their dissatisfaction on issues that affect their well being.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:33
113631290
Miz in Tulsa, Oklahoma on Facebook - I'm a liberal trapped in the "Bible Belt"/Tea Party headquarters of the US. My vote does not count. I feel incredibly helpless when it comes to the policies of my country, and because of this I am incredibly grateful for Wikileaks.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:33
113631290
Suleiman in Nigeria on Facebook -
I am surprised by the call of the Saudi monarch for the US to attack Iran - because the US is an ally of Israel.
Comment sent via YOURSAY
18:23
113631290
Alois, Geneva, emailed WorldHaveYourSay@bbc.com -
The real scandal is that a country who spends billions on national security is unable to protect sensitive material which may be more harmful than these so called terrorist treats.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:23
113631290
Mary on Facebook -
Things like this are said all the time. Take any office anywhere: lots of frustrations are voiced, not published. It's "Water cooler talk"
Comment sent via SMS
18:19
114295205
Diplomacy and leadership are human activities. Therefore both diplomats and leaders have the natural human sentiments but the leaks have exposed the undiplomatic language of diplomats. Some comments are only a notch above vulgarity. Mustapha Kawoje. Nigeria.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:19
113631290
Michael on Facebook -
I want to know more about the creator of this news-storm: Assange. What are his politics? Why did he leave Australia? Why won't he face his accusers? These are far more substantive questions
Comment sent via SMS
18:13
108513545
It鈥檚 a pleasure and very reassuring to be confirmed in what we knew all along. Keep it up, Wiki Leaks. Banks, amsterdam
Comment sent via SMS
18:06
108513545
It鈥檚 about time someone threw a light on nefarious diplomacy. This is definitely a game-changer. Asange better keep his head down - he鈥檚 influenced modern history, and the big guys don鈥檛 like it. Banks, amsterdam
Comment sent via Facebook
18:04
113631290
Michael posted on our Facebook page
It does indeed matter, greatly, what governments say about and to one another. It also matters that very sensitive information stays hidden. I wonder how many people realize that lies of omission are an integral part of diplomacy?
Comment sent via YOURSAY
17:48
113631290
Mark in Monterrey, Mexico emailed the 主播大秀:
Does Wikileaks also publish confidential documents from countries like Iran, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Cuba? If not, then Wikileaks is nothing but hypocrisy.
Comment sent via Facebook
17:48
113631290
Chinemerem in Nigeria wrote on Facebook
Democracy is all about people having their way.My way is being safe, if I can have it then my government can have their say.
Comment sent via Facebook
17:47
113631290
Lubna in Baghdad posted on Facebook
When it comes to my government, it doesn't really matter what it says, because regardless of what it says or does it cannot keep me and my fellow Iraqi citizens safe.
Comment sent via Facebook
17:47
113631290
Cecil writes on Facebook
Yes it matters what my government says even if i am safe because i have loved ones in Iraq who i guess are not safe, so it's not only about me.
Comment sent via Facebook
17:47
113631290
Mohammed in Nigeria It does matter because citizens of other countries just like me deserve peace and security and if my government is protecting me at the expense of their security and welfare, then it's real bad
Part 1: Wikileaks "Cablegate": Information Overload. Part 2: What can student protests achieve?
| Monday, 11 Nov. 2010 | 18:00 - 19:00 GMT
主播大秀56789
主播大秀12345/1234567
ENG517FOR1?!LOL
29/11/10 Bush House London
Memo from World Have Your Say producer XXXXXXXXX to WHYS editor
Morning XXXXXXXX -
Wikileaks has done it again. The website has thousands of secret documents - this time US diplomatic cables between the State department and American embassies around the world - and now they've begun to publish them.
The thing is (keep it between ourselves, save my blushes!), despite my years of journalistic training and experience, I don't know where to start this morning.
You probably know they say they've got 251,287 documents in total. They're publishing the documents here (although only 226 have been published at the time of writing). Five newspapers - Guardian, New York Times, El Pais, Le Monde and Der Spiegel - already have access to all of the documents.
I'm stuck. I don't know which of the revelations should be our focus today on WHYS. Frankly, any one of the following claims / disclosures would be a big talking point on its own (and as you can see from the links, different writers around the world are picking out different aspects that matter to them ...)
1. Accusations that US diplomats were ordered to spy on UN officials. One section in this cable talks about gathering "biographic and biometric information on UN Security Council permanent representatives".
2. Saudi Arabia strongly advocates a military strike on Iran. King Abdullah apparently likens such an attack to "cutting the head off the snake"; the rulers of Bahrain and Abu Dhabi are also quoted. However, Firdaus on our Facebook page notes " it merely confirms the opinions of many MidEast countries against Iran" (presumably opinions he suspected they had anyway)
3. A stand-off over nuclear fuel in Pakistan. Cables published in the New York Times report the US has been trying to removed enriched uranium from Pakistani reactors since 2007.
4. Personal comments about world leaders. You don't have to read Spanish to see that El Pais believes this to be the most interesting angle, with pictures of Gaddafi, Hu Jintao, etc at the top of the page, next to quotes about them. Putin is "an alpha-dog", according to one cable. President Ahmedinehad is described as "Hitler".
5. Yemen's President Saleh covering for the US, claiming responsibility for attacks on militants there in fact carried out by American drones. "We'll continue saying the bombs are ours, not yours," he's quoted as saying in January.
6. China's Politburo directed a hack attack on Google last year. The cables also talk about a campaign of sabotage directed against other targets, including the US government and the Dalai Lama.
7. US Drug Enforcement Agents working in the UAE found $52 million in cash on the visiting Vice President of Afghanistan. He didn't explain where the money had come from, or where it was going to.
... and many many more (take your pick!). And that's before getting into the whole area of whether or not to publish in the first place. There are various pieces describing that quandary.
On Twitter, some almost gleefully compare the Wikileaks release to the hot topic of US airline security; take @fenrir:
Dear government: as you keep telling us, if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to fear
If you could help out with this, it would be appreciated ... Let me know what you think is the most important thing to focus on.
Does any of it really surprise you?! Maybe it shows the great lengths America is going to in order to keep the world safe? Maybe we go for something like the Times Of India headline:
US v Wikileaks: whose side are you on?
Thanks - hope you enjoyed the cricket overnight!
Your comments
Comment sent via YOURSAY
BUT: David in San Francisco emailed - I am not sure where in the USA or England where it is written that EDUCATION is a Right? I think your guests need to brush up on what the Government its actually responsible for.
Comment sent via YOURSAY
James in Arkansas, US, emailed - "Free" education and "free" basic health care ought to be a demand that all people of all nations refuse to compromise on. The only result from denying these rights is a sick uneducated society - like America. Our stupidity is astounding!
Comment sent via Facebook
Bashir on Facebook - We have to create a condusive environment for our students. Protests are one way to create a better world for ourselves.
Comment sent via Facebook
Richard on Facebook - When politicians promise something and then do the exact opposite, it seems very insulting and condescending to ask whether the people who supported them because of that promise should protest.
Comment sent via SMS
Is that "students revolting", or "revolting students " ? Either way, keep it up ! Banks, amsterdam
Comment sent via Facebook
Ali in Uganda posted on our Facebook page In my view, students should study hard and influence society with their achievements.
Comment sent via Facebook
Ankur in India wrote on Facebook A line should be drawn and students have to understand that unnecessary protests do nothing but hinder proper functioning of the educational institute.
Comment sent via Facebook
Mutugi in Kenya writes on Facebook Kenya is the international centre for student unrest! However, Very few cases of student protests here (if at all any) are justifiable! Rowdy kids will take to the streets any day and cause wanton destruction just because they fear sitting for exams!
Comment sent via Facebook
Zualteii wrote on Facebook I have a sneaky suspicion that students can be insidiously bent on creating anarchy. Most are after all young people without much experience of life and their idealism can get quite unrealistic and impractical.
Comment sent via Facebook
Bayo in Nigeria posted on Facebook a student body is also a pressure group and part of a larger society. they have the right and responsibility to protest unless we want to argue that they're insulated from the society which they live.
Comment sent via Facebook
Justice writes on Facebook students should protest and engage in politics on campuses, that helps in shaping future leaders
Comment sent via Facebook
Julie posted on Facebook Protesting is part of the student experience. Uni opens a whole new world to young students, raising their cultural and political awareness. Actually participating in and/or organizing is a healthy part of this process. In the end they become better participants in the democratic process.
Comment sent via Facebook
Mohamed in Tunisia writes on Facebook students have the right to protest against any policy that might put their future at risk, personally, I don't see any contradiction between appealing for better conditions and the prospect of becoming a leader in the future.
Comment sent via Facebook
Sanousi in Sierra Leone posted on our Facebook page Students are part of the make-up of any society, and as such have the right the express their dissatisfaction on issues that affect their well being.
Comment sent via Facebook
Miz in Tulsa, Oklahoma on Facebook - I'm a liberal trapped in the "Bible Belt"/Tea Party headquarters of the US. My vote does not count. I feel incredibly helpless when it comes to the policies of my country, and because of this I am incredibly grateful for Wikileaks.
Comment sent via Facebook
Suleiman in Nigeria on Facebook - I am surprised by the call of the Saudi monarch for the US to attack Iran - because the US is an ally of Israel.
Comment sent via YOURSAY
Alois, Geneva, emailed WorldHaveYourSay@bbc.com - The real scandal is that a country who spends billions on national security is unable to protect sensitive material which may be more harmful than these so called terrorist treats.
Comment sent via Facebook
Mary on Facebook - Things like this are said all the time. Take any office anywhere: lots of frustrations are voiced, not published. It's "Water cooler talk"
Comment sent via SMS
Diplomacy and leadership are human activities. Therefore both diplomats and leaders have the natural human sentiments but the leaks have exposed the undiplomatic language of diplomats. Some comments are only a notch above vulgarity. Mustapha Kawoje. Nigeria.
Comment sent via Facebook
Michael on Facebook - I want to know more about the creator of this news-storm: Assange. What are his politics? Why did he leave Australia? Why won't he face his accusers? These are far more substantive questions
Comment sent via SMS
It鈥檚 a pleasure and very reassuring to be confirmed in what we knew all along. Keep it up, Wiki Leaks. Banks, amsterdam
Comment sent via SMS
It鈥檚 about time someone threw a light on nefarious diplomacy. This is definitely a game-changer. Asange better keep his head down - he鈥檚 influenced modern history, and the big guys don鈥檛 like it. Banks, amsterdam
Comment sent via Facebook
Michael posted on our Facebook page It does indeed matter, greatly, what governments say about and to one another. It also matters that very sensitive information stays hidden. I wonder how many people realize that lies of omission are an integral part of diplomacy?
Comment sent via YOURSAY
Mark in Monterrey, Mexico emailed the 主播大秀: Does Wikileaks also publish confidential documents from countries like Iran, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Cuba? If not, then Wikileaks is nothing but hypocrisy.
Comment sent via Facebook
Chinemerem in Nigeria wrote on Facebook Democracy is all about people having their way.My way is being safe, if I can have it then my government can have their say.
Comment sent via Facebook
Lubna in Baghdad posted on Facebook When it comes to my government, it doesn't really matter what it says, because regardless of what it says or does it cannot keep me and my fellow Iraqi citizens safe.
Comment sent via Facebook
Cecil writes on Facebook Yes it matters what my government says even if i am safe because i have loved ones in Iraq who i guess are not safe, so it's not only about me.
Comment sent via Facebook
Mohammed in Nigeria It does matter because citizens of other countries just like me deserve peace and security and if my government is protecting me at the expense of their security and welfare, then it's real bad