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Cream has risen to the top .

Saints fan and cannot see anything but a Saints win .

In regards of Wigan's end of season slump .................Sam Tomkins not fully fit and it showed , because without Sam fit and firing Wigan are average and very beatable.

Leeds were awesome against Wire but I can't see them playing that well two weeks in a row despite the fact their stars seem to have hit form at the right time.
Saints have been "good" all year even with injuries so I'm going for a 10point St Helens win with Graham or Roby winning the Harry Sunderland trophy!

In reagrds of Wigan's end of season slump , simple Sam Tomkins not fully fit and without him firing Wigan are average and beatable.

Post 4 ................................bump

Called last weekend's winners as Leeds and Saints. Called Leeds as Grand Champs since Challenge Cup final - No reason to change view. The Saints kids are really good and will dominate for the next 5-6 years, but not this year.

i know usually they say the best team wins sl but not this year no way, there was always going to be a year where team/s outside the top 3 make the final and this is the year, wire and wigan have been the best teams by far this year but they have underperformed in a few games (just 1 game in wires case). Yes i know everyone knows beforehand how the playoff works but looks like its one of those years

i.e porto winning the cl

or greece winning the euro's

or United beating Bayern Munich ?

Regarding playoffs and how many teams should be involved, I offer a comparison with the big sporting leagues in the US:

MLB (baseball) - 30 teams, 8 contest the playoffs
NFL (American football) - 32 teams, 12 contest the playoffs
NBA (basketball) - 30 teams, 16 contest the playoffs
NHL (ice hockey) - 30 teams, 16 contest the playoffs

So there's precedent for more than half the teams to contest the playoffs - and the NBA and NHL formats are straight knockouts for everyone, albeit fully seeded (and the nature of these sports allow for playoffs to be contested as best-of-seven matches, reducing the upset potential inherent in one-off games). The fairest comparison is with the NFL, as their playoffs are built around one-off games; there are effectively two six-team playoffs from two leagues of 16 (for historic reasons not worth staying here), where the top two have a bye week first, and the other four play off to reach the semi-finals. Not a difficult format to replicate for Super League.

First of all, yes everyone knows the rules at the start of the season but does that make the play offs credible ? No, simply a marketing ploy.

If you want a team that is inconsistent but on the day can produce, well you already have one knock out competition , its called the Challenge Cup.

Imagine Man U winning the league, and then not being champions because they get beaten by the team who finished 5th, Tottenham despite that team finishing way below them ? Is that right ?

A league is about "the grind", its about being up for it most of the time, its about dragging results out when it matters, it should NOT be about getting into the playoffs and finding some better form at that point.

Yes, you can refer to the playoffs in football but there is a subtle difference, a team can finish many points below the team in first, even the team in third and yet get promoted ? BUT THEY DONT BECOME CHAMPIONS OF THAT DIVISION.

The Super League in Rugby League , the Premiership in Union are at the behest of TV who wants to jazz up the product, something they are expert at but in reality, whoever wins, neither Leeds or St Helens can consider themselves Super this season.

But Warrington did win the league and got the trophy to prove it .

The play off IMHO is a different comp and should be viewed that way .

You've got to take your hats off to Leeds. They've taken everybody by surprise, especially Warrington who must be hurting very badly. Could Leeds now make it a Yorkshire hat-trick alongside Featherstone and Keighley?

Saints must be feeling that they owe Leeds one for all the Grand Final pain they have caused them over these last few years. I'm just hoping for an evenly matched tear up but I'll be putting my hard earned money on Saints who might just have a bit more left in the tank after a long hard season.

I think the playoff system is generally fine as is, except for the club call - lets face it, 9/10 times they are going to choose the lower ranked team anyway!

Looking forward to the Grand Final as well as the upcoming internationals!

A lot of people seem to be making an argument for a "top 6" play-off system, but one thing they are failing to neglect is the impact it has on the rest of the league.

There are plenty of meaningless games as it is (including 2 in the first round of the play-offs) and making it so only 6 of the 14 clubs can make the play-offs, mean for almost half the league, half the season will be pointless. The top 4 was sorted very early on in the season, and the only games that had any interest (bar Wire v Wigan) in the last few rounds were the ones involved Cas/Hull/Hull KR for that final spot.

Clubcall is a stupid "innovation" anyway, and just another fine example of Richard Lewis' strategy of making all the rugby league talk about the off the pitch - Widnes getting in SL: off the pitch, Crusaders withdrawing - off the pitch, Club call - off the pitch.

How about some innovations on the pitch? Like making the league a bit more competitive, and for god sake, bring back promotion and relegation.

Saints and Leeds have had awful injuries this year and have been without some of their best players for more than half of this season.

Who's too say they wouldn't have been 1 & 2 if they had had fully fit squads all year?

Once they had a fully fit squads Leeds beat Hull, Huddersfield and Warrington to get too the GF.

Saints are still without big players (Pryce, Eastmond, Perry, Flannery & Gardner) but they have beaten the defending champions and challenge cup winners twice in 3 weeks.

Wigan weren't convincing in any of their wins over Saints or Leeds this season apart from the regular season game at Widnes and Warrington can't handle the pressure of the play offs.

Saints and Leeds are the best teams in the current set up of Super League and whoever wins on Saturday will deserve to be called champions.

The playoff system works, but its disappointing to have seen every grand final contested between the same four teams. If Super League ever wants to seriously compete with the NRL, they need to find ways of improving the quality in the rest of the league without compromising its top clubs. It doesn't help that the UK is a largely Union dominated market though.

Clubcall definitely needs to go though. No good comes of it for the choosing side.

George, spot on - scrap the club call and reduce to top half only. I also prefer straightforward knock-out matches. Good to hear coverage about the Grand Final on Radio 5, have you been twisting arms?

Not a fan of the club, but a shame Wolves did not make it to the GF. However, Leeds and Saints there on merit. I think this will be a close contest and despite the odds, Leeds will fancy their chances. Should be a real belter.

A while back someone asked if you would write an article on how international RL is doing; more countries play League than one might think...how about something before the 4 Nations?

Cheers

Am I the only one who longs for a proper league, when the team that finishes top is the undisputed champions and that's that?

No problems with Saints being there, in the top three all season and cup semi finalists. Leeds being there is a joke. 13 points behind the leaders, that's more than six wins. Got to the cuP final after playing no-one, all the top teams played Wigan. As for the top two, Wolves have had little play-off success, so lacked the know how. Wigan lost Hock, Mossop who had an outstanding year never recovered from the injury he picked up at Wembley and they never had a break, victims of their own success. And as for injuries preventing saints and Leeds challenging the top two, all the best form this season came from the top two. Wigan had three NRL players to integrate, lost the man of steel to injury until April and had the McGuire issue which clearly affected the players. They made a very slow start and were six points behind at one point. From about the end of April onwards they won more points in the league than anyone and won the cup. So saints or Leeds will win the grand final, but for me Wigan and Warrington to finish 1st and 2nd next season.

Some very bitter people on here , Warrington won the league ( trophy to prove it )

Play offs different comp , get over it and move on with your lives

Let's be honest, it's only an 8 team play-off while SL is 14 teams and there is no P&R. Both are the consequence of liscencing, which won't last forever. The RFL are very coy about it, as they need to be, as enough clubs are trying to blag bringing their stadia and youth programmes upto scratch. Once enough clubs are meeting standards, they'll bring back P&R for compliant clubs, SL can reduce to 12, thus increasing the intensity, especially with clubs fighting the drop, and with entertainment at the bottom end, play-offs can return to 6, with pure knock out again increasing the intensity. Until those growing pains are over, we still have a pretty great product, as we saw last week and no doubt will see today

As a Saints fan I'm more confident about Saints winning this one as I have been since 2006. The 3 years Leeds won (2007-2009) there wasn't much between the teams and Leeds were just too good on the night apart from the last one when they won with Lee Smith being offside. Last year Wigan were dead-certs especially when Saints had to put Wilkin & Matty Smith at half-back at short notice. This year due to patches of bad form and a spate of bad injuries both teams have got there on merit via the play-offs from 3rd & 5th, players have come back and are fresh due to their lay-offs. Leeds are still dangerous but I just have a feeling that there is a different spirit in the St.Helens camp, its a belief they can beat anyone and a 'we'll die for each other' attitude. This will get them over the line by 8-10pts for me, but if the weather is atrocious we could be in for a real nailbiter !!!

Play offs different comp , get over it and move on with your lives


can people stop saying that its embarressing, should teams get trophies in football for winning their champions league groups before the knockout stages?as people have stated its a money making scheme nothing more nothing less

Reply to Message No10 John:
Don't wanna start a comparison war but football does have a similar weird system, allowing teams who finish 2nd 3rd & 4th to go into the CHAMPIONS league, isn't that just to jazz up the product. In fact when Man Utd won the CL in 1999 they weren't even reigning champs Arsenal were. Liverpool kicked and stamped their feet so much in 2006 to be in the CHAMPIONS league because they CL Cupholders in 2005 but finished 5th in the 05/06 Premier League and were allowed in ????

I feel as if I have read this article before. George needs to go to a few different sporting events if this is the most unique atmosphere he has experienced.

ShinyDavidHowell

u make some valid points but the rl playoff system is so flawed its ridiculous,

-the top 2 teams can afford to lose their 1st match?
either make it a straight 8 team knockout or just stop with this 1 losing chance

-the teams who win in the 1st week of playoffs again can afford to lose a game in the next week?

-clubcall? wtf
one of the most ridiculous thing in sport, choosing ur opponent! how is that a lottery of the playoffs?

-it hasent happened this year but a team can lose out in a place for the grand final for losing the same amount of games as a team who is in the grand final?
again bizzare


also the crowd in some playoff games, wigan vs saints game 1 and 2, hudds vs leeds were embarresing, game 2 of the saints wigan game and the hudd-leeds ones were elimination games but the crwods were so poor, it just doesnt look good on tv

I strongly disagree that there should be play-offs and a Grand Final: the team finishing top of Super League should be crowned the winner. Super League is the Premiership of Rugby League - in football the team that finishes top doesn't have to face a knock-out; why should Rugby League be any different? The Challenge Cup provides rugby league with a knock-out competition and a big-event final.
Just look at the top of Super League this year with Warrington gaining 44 points out of a possible 54 and with 671 points difference, an amazing 250 more than Wigan and with no other team in sight. And with the destination of the title hanging on the outcome of the penultimate game of the season. Knowing about the play-offs at the start of the season enables clubs below the title contenders to pace themselves during the second half of the season, rest a few players and try to keep as fresh as possible for the play-offs while the contenders are going hammer and tongs to the end trying to get top spot.
And How Boring?! Only 5 teams have appeared in the Grand Final in its 14 year history - with Leeds and St Helens facing each other for the 4th time in the last 5 finals !
I vote to scrap the play-offs altogether !!

Archimededprinciple,

If the winner of SL was done on the league table, would the winner ever come out of that top 5 (plus Wire, but surely they will be in a Grand Final sooner rather than later)? So the play-offs are as predictable as who wins the league leaders shield? Surely if who finishes top was much less predictable, that would justify scraping the playoffs, but it's not.

The SL Grand final provides a show piece that is actually noticed by the British sporting public. Right now I am sat in a pub in London, and they are actually showing RL. I normally have to research for days to find a place that will definatley play RL. Today I was able to take my pick of local pubs. Well organised RFL, the country is waching. They certainly weren't when Warrington sealed the top of the table at the kc, an they wouldn't have been even if they were crowned SL champions that day.

Ö÷²¥´óÐã - why is there no live text commentary on the website as there has been in previous years?

What a very strange system the Rugby League play-offs is. In USA sports it is entirely appropriate that there are play-offs as most divisions are organised on a regional basis and many teams simply don’t play each other during the course of the regular season.

However, in Rugby League they do – both home and away, so the team that finishes top should be Champions.

But finance dictates that there should be a system of play-offs whereby teams that finish 4th, 5th, 6th or even 8th have another bite of the cherry. Imagine Manchester United finishing top of the Premiership and then being overcome by Aston Villa in the play-offs for the title!

It is no surprise at all to see Leeds once more triumph in this end-of-season farce. They regularly enjoy the benefit of very 50:50 decision from the officials on the pitch and the 4th official, and are blessed with good fortune that defies belief. But Champions! Come on!!

As an outsider looking in I think the play-offs have a place in the sport of RL (and RU) but only if they work like this - everyone plays everyone once (in a franchise league home and away alternate years) and then the top say 8 play each other again once (away if you were at home) then the winner is top of that league of 8. The other teams though still have something to play for in that I'd make the Challenge Cup start from the National Leagues, then take in the bottom 6 and then the top 8.

It seems fashionable this season to knock the play offs that we have in SL, possibly because the initial games were rather one sided. However, given that the majority of rugby league seasons since 1909 have ended with a play off series, apart from the mid 70s to the late 90s, it would seem that the 'traditional' is in fact what we currently have.

Regarding 8 teams, perhaps it is too many, but let's not forget that in the first year of the expanded play offs, the side finishing 8th, Catalans, got to the semi-final, when Leeds picked them as the Clubcall. That element could do with being abandoned though, no side will be more fired up for being picked than by the opportunity of getting to the Grand Final, and it just adds something to be complained about.

On the other hand, where there's a side who gets to the play offs in poor form, such as Huddersfield this year, the opportunity to select them against a lower-ranked opponent may be considered an advantage, but I suspect it will be a while before a team in the top 4 runs on such an empty tank in the close season again.

As for 5th v 3rd in the Grand Final, does it show strength in the top half of the league, or is it unfortunate for the top 2. I know the leagues as a whole don't bear comparison, but 5th v 3rd in the NRL final would not be a cause for despair (as 2nd v 6th wasn't this season).

For those who treat Warrington as the champions, then they do have a trophy for it, but much as I would really enjoy a Melbourne v Warrington World Club Challenge

...accidental click... the rules state otherwise, and would we have heard complaints about the system had it been a Warrington v Wigan final tonight? Let's not forget that for all the talk about it being the first time that no side from the top 2 had got to the Grand Final, that until three years ago, the rules made it impossible for a side from outside the top 2 not to get there.

For the WCC, how about have the League Leaders Shield v the NRL Minor Premiers in 1 SF, and the 2 Grand Final winners in another?

The team that finishes top of the standings at the end of the regular season is the best team in the league. End of. Warrington finished 13 points above the eventual ‘Grand Final’ winners. They won 6 more games, had an infinitely superior points difference, and beat Leeds home and away. But finishing top now counts for very little, when virtually all the plaudits and publicity go to the play-off winners. It’s quite conceivable that future Superleagues will become non-events as the top teams opt to just tick over during the regular season, qualify for the knock-out stages, and concentrate on the 3 or 4 games at the end to win the major trophy. Let’s face it. That’s pretty well what Leeds have done this year.