Ö÷²¥´óÐã

There's been some mischief-making and, dare I say, even gloating from the blue half of Dundee about Stephen Thompson's comments this week. Apparently, according to the Dees, United are in deep trouble and could be going under.

Garbage.

I actually think it's quite refreshing, if understandably worrying, that the chairman of a successful club is giving advance warning that belts have to be tightened. I would suggest that there's a big difference between financial prudence, and reckless mismanagement leading to meltdown.

Everyone knows that the Thompson clan can't back United indefinitely. The challenge for Thompson and Peter Houston is to keep United competitive on a realistic budget. Won't be easy, but at least the club will still be here in 20 years whether they fail or succeed.

The whole game hinges on the money situation in England and Spain. As long as they can afford to pay out ridiculous wages to average players, the rest of the game will suffer. Would Danny Wilson have moved clubs had it been 15 years ago? I think not.

re #1

Well DE if there has been a smidgin of gloating from the blue part of the city toward the tangerine quarter over the past week then it amounts to very little in comparison to that dished out by United fans to Dundee over the past month. I'm thinking particularly on all those self-righteous comments concerning 'living within your means' and that Dundee cheated because 'they spent money they didn't have'.

Now the United chairman announces that DUFC would have gone into administration in 2004 had it not been for the Thompson family, that United remain millions in debt and will have to find another £500,000 to make up this seasons expected loss......... but that's ok. According to you, that's financial prudence...... and quite refreshing(!)

Read again what Jim Spence has written and lay off trying to score cheap points.

1) Steven Thompson's pragmatic(?) view was supported by another SPL chairman.

2) Players and agents are taking a different view altogether (via wage demands as player contracts come up for re-negotiations).

3) That each side is going to have to find some middle ground (though more toward the club view) or there are going to be an awful lot of unemployed players come July.

Leaving club loyalties to one side, I think Thompson's strategy is smart. His club is losing money every week so he's made his view public and he's done it early. The fans have been warned that players will likely go whilst agents have been put on notice of the strictures placed on United and how far the club can go on new contracts.

In fairness to Steven Thompson, he inherited much of United's debt problem from his father. Eddie was a great Arab and loved by the fans but was perhaps over-committed to the United cause. Over time however, his son may well prove to be the greater Chairman.

#3
I'm thinking particularly on all those self-righteous comments concerning 'living within your means' and that Dundee cheated because 'they spent money they didn't have'.
-------------------------------------

Utd are still well managed unlike DFC who couldn't do their sums.

Third Lanark of the North!!

Actually thinking about that, that comment may be unfair on the old Thirds, you lot have cheated your creditors twice now..and you still think its unfair..

..delusional

unlike dundee, united arent going to "spend money they dont have" they are going to cut back on outgoigs, its called being decent and honest.
something that dundee fc need to learn.

You must have been gazing into a crystal ball when you picked this topic Jim. At least from a Hibs' perspective.

I am just home from the ICT match. Ignore the scoreline. Hibs were utter rubbish. I note with interest that sixteen of the first team squad will shortly be out of contract. Their agents will face a challenging task convincing Petrie to hand out improved contracts to those huddies.

On today's evidence a tube of Smarties per week would be generous.

Jim,

Budget cuts and austerity may be the new mantra but with all due respect to you and this rude awakening within Scottish football, they are, I’m afraid Old Hat.

Funny how those in charge are so sage when it comes to measures that are all too obvious to everyone with even the most basic insight.

Any damn fool can make spending cuts at a club until a club has been stripped bare and the players forced to take to the park in their Jock Straps, but what we need from chairmen is the mental strength to reinvigorate their clubs’ financial foundation.

You might have been receiving plaudits after your Sportsound programme but witness the plight of Aberdeen also outlined on Sportsound: Chairman - awash with money; fan base – biggest outside the Old Firm; engagement with local community – innefective; willingness to listen to innovative ideas - non existant; demonstration of growth strategy – inept; appreciation of value – zilch.

As for the value of players, they will never feel valued simply because of a price tag on their heads and I wonder just to what degree players at Aberdeen or any club for that matter feel valued.

If anyone wonders why Inverness Caledonian are enjoying such success from well motivated players they need look no further than the sense of family and community that Terry Butcher exhibits and how he treats issues of performance yet still respects his players.

Knowing your worth counts for nothing but, a sense of worth counts for everything.

I defy any of the stars from Barcelona, Chelsea or where ever to come to Scotland and feel valued, or perform to the levels they do, let alone beleaguered players at clubs like Aberdeen.

Stewart Milne mentioned a change of culture at Aberdeen. Great. Where’s your plan?

If Stephen Thompson doesn’t like bankrolling Dundee United then, get innovative or go back to running Corner Shopies.

More vison less bean counting please.

The advent of agents has brought the current predicament about, together with the pressure on clubs to achieve. I don't think it is worth bringing your club to the edge of financial ruin in order to get good results, nor is it necessary. Most Scottish clubs, perhaps all of them, need to step back a bit, their supporters too, and ask themselves what their priorities are. Paying high wages in such times as these is a recipe for disaster.

Dutd must surely be preparing themselves for the departures of Goodwillie and Conway. That at least will hopefully go some way to reducing their debts in the short-term.

Thompson's remarks were very sensible and a reflection of the realities now in Scottish football. As a family they ought to be praised for their contribution to the Scottish game over the years. ET was an enthusiast and boy did he put his money where his mouth was.

Unlike the jokers at the other end of Dundee who lets be frank took risk to cataclysmic levels.

But the players will go towards the wages and why shouldn't they. Gone are the days when clubs such as DUtd could tie youngsters up in 10 year contracts and effectively block their careers.

Very sensible comments #7 Iain. As usual. You are absolutely right about clubs taking the initiative to reinvigorate their team and game, and the emphasis on a positive culture in the dressing room and club. I would also stress managerial continuity as a big factor in this. Aberdeen are a car crash of a club who must have spent just as much money on sacking managers than recruiting players in recent years: all to no avail. If by a change of culture SM means sticking with their manager then that would be a start for them (although realistically JC should never have been sacked). Butcher is doing well at ICT because of the culture of the club and not despite it. Clubs like Hibs may also take note.

One logical outcome of the new era of financial prudence should be greater chances for youth and this will be no bad thing. It may not be pretty though and the gap with the OF will just get bigger unfortunately. Even as a Celtic fan myself I would like to see more young players in their team, and certainly more Scots players than we have currently, instead of paying £4m for the likes of Juarez to warm the bench. Madness.

Rob04

Your points are also well made as usual and, although I have been quite blunt in my comments about Stephen Thompson, you are of course correct about the family contribution and such commitment at any club, can only be applauded.

I am however drawn to the parallels between United and Aberdeen. SM’s greater wealth has propped up Aberdeen and funded choices they might not otherwise have made but the fact that even SM cannot keep this up indefinitely is beginning to dawn on Aberdeen.

The Thompsons on the other hand cannot match SM, nor should they be expected to but if United don’t come up with some real inspiration, then just like Aberdeen, a decline is likely, but I fear in much more dramatic fashion.

They are going to need something more than simply tightening their belts and it disappoints me that ST isn’t breaking any new ground in Chairman terms.

I am always mystified why Celtic aren’t bringing more young players through, especially as they have plenty of experienced talent to help youngsters mature as players but I think again you are right that maybe we’ll see youth get a chance.

Pity it seems to be born out of desperation.

I'm afraid today's entitlement culture will only make wage demands worse. Look at John Fleck, for example. As a Rangers fan, I'm not happy with the progress the lad has made. He's clearly good on the ball, has a bit of pace and scored for fun in the reserves. However, given some first team game time and he became a prima dona. Tantrums in training; rumours of heavy party at the weekend; etc etc. Yet he still has to bottle to demand a wage rise! Thankfully a deal was struck, but it only highlights the hold agents have over players.

It's time to radicalise the pay structure in Scottish football; a basic wage for SPL squad members that is only augmented by appearance and performance bonuses. Then perhaps we'll see some effort from the mediocre majority, rather than simply turning up at training and games simply to put in half a shift.