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why should the taliban talk to the brits when they can see they are winning? all they have to do is wait. 5years, 10 years, who cares, in the end the brits will go and they will have the islamic shariah law back?

or is there still that delusion about western style democracy. something we don't have too much in the uk given half our legislature is appointed, the head of state is hereditary and millionaires get farming subsidy in what is a direct transfer of wealth form the poor to the rich. never mind 70% of the laws come from faceless technocrats in brussels. is that the model afghanistan should have?

when they drop the war on terror narrative then they will drop the war.

as long as they call it a war they will use 'troops' rather than law for uk defence.

Look what The Corporate Nazi's are up to this time ?



Darling ( nee Panda ) must be the Corporate Nazi's favourite puppet politician, hardly surprising Brown let him survive the expenses scandal unscathed.

Just wondering anyone in the NN team off with Swine Flu ?

@ #1 Mimpromtu - LOVE the poem!

@ #4 streetphptobeing I hope no-one from the NN team has Swine Flu!
Everyone's gone on holiday :o)

Nos1

I think there could be something in humour helping the immune system. Maybe
we need Ken Dodd and Tommy Cooper on the box instead of NHS SW phone lines.

Nos 5
They wouldn't want what Ive had and am getting over, its strange - I became obsessive about banknotes, maybe I was delirious with a temperature.

100+ years later and we still don't "get" Afghanistan; or worse, maybe we do, but still feel it necessary to stand "shoulder to shoulder" with the US.

Our soldiers will be there for as long as it takes the US to decide when it is reasonable to leave, which is likely to be about in three years' time.

David Miliband's views/opinions are really not worth much; if you want the "heads up" on Afghanistan, have some Americans on the programme.

A fag end HMG? Miliband is Foreign Secretary, Bob Ainsworth Secretary of Defence, and MPs are exercised about - the long hours taxi drivers put in?

The boys in the black turbans must be really scared.

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@#8 Mimpromptu - A thousand kisses xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Also, talking to the Taliban. Foreign Secretary David Miliband has urged the Afghan government to talk to moderate members of the Taliban as part of efforts to bring stability to the country."

Mr Miliband said that he thinks honesty is the best policy, so why doesn't he tell the truth and bring the troops back to the UK? Pakistan has a population 3x that of the UK, and is next door to Afghanistan. 9000 UK troops and a dozen or so helicopters won't make much difference in the region other than damaging the reputation of the UK.

How many Israeli troops are there in Afghanistan/Iraq? Does Mr Miliband have a preferential right to go and live in Israel if he wishes? Does Mr Sugar? Do Pakistani British? Do other British citizens? if not, why is there a difference?

kashibeyaz # 7

You better be careful or you will end up on the naughty step with me and JadedJean inferring that top UK politicians are puppets of the US. However, its the Corporate Nazi top earning stock market celebrities who will decide to pull out of Afghanistan. The value of the DOW is directly dependent on a continuation of the war, even back before the Iraq invasion the Dow Jones would gain 50 points each time Iraq was bombed. I suspect that a complete withdrawal from both Iraq and Afghanistan could result in a fall of up to 1000 points off the DOW.

There is no way that puppet politicians like Obama are going to risk another crash on the stock market, Britain whinges about Zimbabwe but its the UK stock market parasites who are funding Mugabe and all he stands for according to tonight's Dispatches.

Whilst it would appear to be run down the NHS open season, according to a contact from the states Obama's alleged revolutionary health reforms wont actually help a large proportion of the population. On face value it would appear that Obama is simply attempting to create a welfare state for the drug companies and private care companies farming frail OAP's or disabled people. Bit like what the Corporate Nazi's want here and the Tories talking about an extension of means testing for several currently universal benefits.

I've just been listening to the Ö÷²¥´óÐã 10 O'Clock News declaring that "Operation Panther Claw Phase One" has been "a success"?

But is e.g. Mark Urban there on the ground to verify this? Of
course not ... just plummy-voiced Caroline Wyatt recycling an
MOD Press Release timed to coincide with Mr Miliband's speech?

How on earth can anyone in Britain know whether this 'operation'
has been a total waste of manpower or a triumph? Isle of Wight?

Surely Afghanistan is bigger that The Isle of Wight? This smells
like a political PR exercise to help Gordon Brown save face ...?

In any war, truth is the first casualty .. and I am now cynical!

#11; interesting, and here was me thinking that sanity had broken out among the (almost) century of brushes.

To be a puppet of someone or something implies that same someone/thing is controlling you; I don't think the Americans see us as worth the bother, but sometimes it may suit their interests to have us on their shoulder, like Long John Silver's parrot, squawking, "Support the surge, support the surge." But they don't make us jump up; we do it all by ourselves, more's the shame of it.

Why not ask young Miliband if he thinks Harold Wilson, Jim Callaghan , or even his own dad, would have supported the US in Iraq and/or Afghanistan?

The NHS is a bankrupt socialist idea 50 years past its sell-by-date and we have a corrupt 3 party system, as with the EU, that keeps this policy afloat and squandering taxpayer money.

The last thing that should happen is leaving it to inept politiians, the worst managers on the planet, to make the decisions or cronies like Lord Desazi who achieved nothing in his 2 year in charge.

The 5% reduction in productivity is a scandal. The waste of 10% budget increases 40% squandered on higher wages is appalling. And the NHS is more dangerous to your health on a weeks visit (1 in 300 risk) than a lifetime of smoking (12 in 100,000 risk).

Wind up the NHS and lets have private competition delivering high quality, efficient, effective health services. Politicians cannot manage anything withour corruption and an inept shambles. NHS RIP.

Did a good job Nick, just a bit of nerves with that left hand going to the top and back of your script, something Brown does/did.

No worries your fine.

What a refreshing change to have someone like Nick Robinson present Newsnight. I have been completely fed up, frustrated to the point of suicide watching Jeremy Paxman repeating to his guests questions that were neither valid with reference to the topic, no had any internal meaning. I mean absolutely pointless questions. Jeremy seems to be more interested in beating up any quest who dares refuse to bow to him than conduct a constructive interview. Can you extend you holiday, Jeremy?

@# 6 - Streetphotobeing - wish you a speedy recovery!

When Lord Darzai spoke to Nick of eradicating MRSA - surely all that is needed is a return to proper CLEANING in hospitals, when hospitals smelt of disinfectant! Even I remember that.

The NHS certainly isn't dead. Interesting point made by Nick too - that less was being spent on the NHS than Margaret Thatcher's government (and that was years ago!). Dr. Sikora made the best comment of the night - to leave the NHS to doctors and let them run it properly.

@ #17 B_H_Obama - You sound like a disgruntled politician who was once grilled by Jeremy and made to look a fool!

SELF-BELIEF MEETS JOHNNIE FOREIGNER

Miliband D says that if the Taliban use force to repel the invader (rather than having a nice chat) "they will be making a CHOICE of violence". CHOICE Mr M? Surely, any animal defends it territory against intrusion, as a REFLEX ACTION? What is more, to put a price of $5million on one Talib head, is to acknowledge they are a lot harder to buy than some - that's called HONOUR, I think.

What is Miliband D's understanding of other cultures - I get the impression he doesn't even understand his own. The Taliban mindset is surely alien, in its truest sense? I have worked under the umbrella of science - nominally a universal ethos - and still found I could not fathom some thirty percent of the mind of those born into alien cultures. Miliband D has Blair-like self-belief, a precursor to all manner of ills if left unchecked.

We made a similar error of cultural understanding, when surrendering to the Japanese.

I can't beleive that Jeremy Paxman or Jon Snow would cut off someone so blatently as they were commenting on the competence of the government of Afganistan.

I wonder whether the other bloggers and the moderators have noticed the threats issued towards some of the participants by JadedJean, Brossen99 and Barrie Singleton?

Well there seems a bit of humour in the blog, essential I think to a positive mind set. The country and the planet are in a mess. We either go down with it. Roll over and die in an abyss of depression. Or we do something. The Buddhists might say right thought right action. So from that a good mental attitude might be considered a precursor of effective physical manifestation.

Now JJ has this thing about me being I centric, infantile etc. Now I never looked at it in those negative connotations. If I said I had been a general foreman on Europe's largest civil engineering project. 1000 men and £1 million a day, delivered weeks ahead and £millions under budget.

I supply that information just to put a bit of iron and substance behind my words. So people reading what I write know what I write is not some theory, but have actually had some real world experience. JJ would see that as negative. Myself it was already the answer to the question, well what do you know, have you any experience.

Once the big top bosses turned up and the men were lying about, laughing, drinking tea. not one bit of work was being done anywhere on the site. Unfortunately we had go so far ahead of all the work we had planned. We all then cleaned up the entire site. Every piece of litter, fag butt and toffee wrapper. Then did all the cabins, rearranged the stores. Blokes were going away, thinking what could be done and asking me if they could do it.

Eventually there was nothing left to do. Even if we thought of something it would have been illegal. I had to attend meetings, the phase explained to me. I would get 50 pages of method statements and risk assessments to sign before we could start.

So the big bosses were pleased that we had done every single thing and not done anything as stupid as starting on the next phase before the legal side was sorted.

They were really pleased all the men were doing nothing and just having a laugh together in the sun. The project managers and engineers probably got it though for under estimating the amount of work we could get through in a week.

Anyway I think life should be about living and enjoying and having a laugh is part of that. Just from experience mind you, I haven't got any theory to back it up.

Miliband

Once I thought Miliband was OK. Well I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. He was 'educated' at MIT. I am influenced by MIT, Hawkeye introduced Prof Forrester, who is a hero of mine and from the MIT.

There had been a bomb blast and a serious number of casualties. Miliband was as a meeting and came out to give a statement. Express his condolences at the deaths, his sadness etc. He then gave the number of dead.

An aide told him that wasn't the right figure. They all fell about laughing and joking, they found it hilarious that they had got the wrong number of dead.

Miliband composed himself. And did the same piece again to camera this time with the right number of dead. What an actor. Superb performance.

Miliband hadn't realise as it was rolling news it was live. I have searched You Tube to find it to post it but it isn't there. But it was live news and who records all the news.

Miliband. Just say no.

Celtic Lion

Unemployment rising, immigration out of control, the global financial mess, overpopulation, rampent crime, swine flu...and what does the Govt intend on doing?..giving Junkies first go of the flu jab. something tells me this Govt ain't smart or fair.

"occupation?...junkie...ok, front of the queue."

"occupation?...general taxpayer...ok, wait in the airless container at the bottom of the field with the other mugs...theres an airless container tax form you need to fill out before you qualify to go on the flu jab waiting list".

Obama @17:
Would that be thee Obama who says 'how high' when Wall street says 'jump'???. wow! look how high he jumps...did i see strings?

Nos18

Thank you Mistress most kind of you.

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@# 19 Mistress76uk . Absolutely not. I am just a listener who prefers substance to personality and posturing. Paxman does not actually grill any interviewee if I may correct that. He picks upon a question and bangs on about it even though that question has little relevance to the issue.

I give you one example; You've got a senior government officials being interviewed about their plan for the economy. Most listeners know that the forecast is uncertain and is ever changing. So why would a listener want a whole minute out of 3 spent on trying to beat out of a politician a "concrete and precise" forecast that we know does not exist? The only explanation is that Mr Paxman of late has used such tactics to conceal the fact that he had not done enough home work and as such did not prepare his questions.

Give me Evans Davis or Nick Robinson over Paxman, anyday, and I would snap off your hand.

WEHEN DID YOU STOP BEATING YOUR WIFE?

We live in most peculiar times. For example, times when pupils who don't get As in their GCSEs don't do so because only because of 'deferred achievement' or 'lack of interest/motivation', or some other untestable 'explanation'. Perhaps the lower graded ('motivated'?) pupils just weren't as ready as those who got higher grades, but would have got As if they'd been better prepared (by better teachers of course), the logic being that those who got As were really no different to those who didn't in any important way - the fact that when given a basic numeric or reading task some time later one group could and the other could not be trusted to add two numbers together reliably, or follow some written or verbal instructions reliably, just doesn't matter anymore - everyone is potentially equal, so everyone is equal.

Heaven forbid if anyone should dare say there are any real differences in ability, especially if such differences show up by sex and ethnic group . Such differences are more likely to be explained in terms of institutional sexism and racism by teachers no less!

Meanwhile, is peddled around the globe on behalf of those settled amidst 'Europeans', allegedly with no foreign vested interests whatsoever, simply because those doing this can not be very easily discerned from other indigenous citizens because they are the same colour.

Is it not time to wake up to what anti-discrimination has really been about? It's been about cleverly favouring one group over another in a most venal, underhanded, way.

It's a shame about the interrupted interview with Malalai Joya. The decision to have her share a very brief slot with the British guy who was kicked out of Afghanistan for wanting to negotiate with the Taliban did neither of them any credit. It illuminated nothing and was insulting to a young woman who is in danger of her life 24/7 because of her outspoken views on the warlords and the Taliban in Afghanistan. She is also for the US, the UK and NATO troops pulling out. Unfortunately, she had little time to express her views and her English when she spoke quickly, which she frequently did, was hard to understand. It would have been better to slot her in with time and the opportunity for the interviewer to repeat the gist of what she was she was saying for the audience.
****
But how disappointing to see blog house rules obeyed by guilt by association masqueraded through live links. How does the self-defined jaded define a 'European' I wonder?

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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Juno19 (#31) "How does the self-defined jaded define a 'European' I wonder?"

Does the self-defined Juno9 think Turkey is in Europe? How about Iraq, or Afghanistan? This game is played by pretending that classes don't exist. All dogs belong to the same species, but are they all the same? Is the risk of breast cancer the same across all groups? How about Non Classic Adrenal Hyperplasia? What makes people/dogs different? Do some dogs differ in their behaviour form others? Ever seen a chiwawa race track? If one has automatic right to citizenship to a foreign nation by birthright, is one likely to be 100% loyal to one's adopted country, or prone to hedge? Why not destroy nationalism and call it fascist, campaign for internationalism if one is an international group? Unless it threatens your prospective home away from home of course (be sure not to sign up to the ICC).

Might there ever be unforseen consequences (and ) of such self-abnegating behaviour?

Is this quite remarkable anomally worth looking into, along with no end of UN resolution violations, or would that cause too much discomfort? Might the conditioning of such discomfort in others through PR investment/psychological warfare be the modus operandi of this egeregious hegemonic game? Follow the statistical disproportionalities, it's science after all. How does half a percent of the population field nearly 10% of the House of Lords in these equality obsessed times of ours? The referent is not the highest achieving British Chinese either. Look into the demographics of NYC.

What is the UK doing in Afghanistan, a populaton of 30 million, with Pakistan 3x the population of the UK? Whose agenda is Britain serving? Whose agenda is 98% of the USA population tacitly serving, and why?

Nos 22 mimpromptu

The behaviours of those you mention are well known and have gone on for a long time. Barry is something of a gifted writer as well, just to rub salt in our eyes.

Enjoy reading your poems, look forward to some more.

Congratulations to Nick Robinson for a well run Newsnight session; much better than the increasingly self-parodying Jeremy, the shrill and abrupt Kirsty, the Venusian Maitlis or Gavin Esler's mannered attempts at devil's advocacy.

Tell the usual suspects they can all have a prolonged break, Nick'll look after the shop. Reminded me of McCormick/Tusa in their heyday.

More of Nick please.

I thought Nick's handling of the Afghanistan piece was fine; he was gracious and polite when having to cut contributions short. The Afghan MP said it all in her litany of Taliban chiefs and their misdeeds; none of them have the slightest notion of negotiating a settlement; it's simply not a starter; they will of course take money, go quiet for a while, and then return at the most propitious opportunity, a point that was also made during the piece.

An adult, civilised discussion handled well by a quietly authoritative chairman; what Newsnight ALWAYS used to be like.

Back to the future? Over to you, Mr. Robinson.

@ #29 - I'm not convinced.....I still think you are a shamed politician!
As for the comments on substance,

"Prizes and Awards Presented to Jeremy Paxman:

*Royal Television Society: Award for International Current Affairs, 1985

*Voice of the Listener & Viewer: Award for best contribution to Television, 1993 and 1997

*BAFTA: Richard Dimbleby Award, 1996 and 1999

*Royal Television Society: Interview/Presenter of the Year 1997, 1998, 2001 and 2008

*Broadcasting Press Guild: Award for best TV Performer in a non-acting role 1997

*Variety Club: Media Personality of the Year, 1999"

Source:

Jeremy has been awarded prizes for journalism from the Royal Televison Society, the BAFTAs and the Broadcasting Press Guild, as well as from the Variety Club and the general public too. He is a National Treasure!

Agree that Nick Robinson was excellent. The secret of running an informative piece is to get some knowledgeable people of various points of view and chair a discussion where they within reason) do most of the talking. At present you only have one presenter who can be relied upon to do that and she is not Jeremy Paxman nor is she Scottish. You did have some (Alan Little amd Eddie Mair for instance also your own Liz McKean when she gets out)but they seem to have fled the stricken field. Try bringing them back and you might get some high grade contributors.

mimpromptu (#22) "I wonder whether the other bloggers and the moderators have noticed the threats issued towards some of the participants"

It's better seen as healthy encouragement of self-critical analysis i.e. education.

AGREED (# various)

Nick Robinson is 'bigger than the job' the rest . . . As for Paxo awards, I suspect they were for 'edgyness' before finesse!

Personally, I find Jon Sopel (The Politics Show) handles politicians well, also. I just wish we could have less Pearl and Dean on both programs.

I am still waiting for one of the political programs to do a weekly spot where telling utterances from Gods of Olympus are dissected by a language expert and a psychologist. I began pleading in days of Blair.
I assert that such would go a long way to SPOIL PARTY GAMES.

I don't know if Paxmans married but he's certainly got a mistress.

Someone asked JJ - whats the definition of being a European. At a fundemental level it has to be white and non-Islamic but visit any big city in Euroland and you would think you were in Mecca. Infact its that noticeable rise of Islam, esspecially in France that some Jewish communities up-sticks and migrate to Israel. Its not unlike the white flight in our cities when an alien culture is allowed to grow...we end up moving to Spain or Bournemouth... i think the Israelies have the better option.

never again let Nick Robinson in charge of Newsnight. This former young conservative youth leader, yes I know his background is far too politically married to the conservative cause to be independent and one thing about Jeremy and other NN presenters they are politically neutral, Paxman gives both sides a grilling. The way Robinson jumped on the Labour voice last night showed his true coloud that cannot be good for NN impartiality, he fawned on the Tory voices and it was quite nauseating to watch, sorry Nick

Afghanistan

A few months ago I watched , followed by . I found NN's discussion a bit strange that it did not mention opium at all , or was opium being refereed too as "Local Problems" ?
Anyway , may I suggest that opium is the main problem in southern Afghanistan and until we work out a long term solution with the Afghans there is going to be mayhem there. I don't blame the farmers , they need a cash crop to live , but what real alternative are they being offered ?
Maybe next time you can discuss the problem of opium in southern Afghanistan.

I was staggered to see the biased presentation of the NHS funding debate on Newsnight on 27 July. For the studio discussion Professor Karol Sikora was introduced as a critic of the NHS without any declaration of his interest as the medical director of private healthcare company CancerPartnersUK (. It is not surprising that he says the NHS is unsustainable, given the large amount of money he stands to make from its demise. At the very least, this should have been made clear to viewers.

Neither was there balance in the rest of the feature. Sikora is a member of the steering committee of pro-privatisation group Doctors for Reform, yet this did not prevent Newsnight from also interviewing Sikoras colleague Andrew Haldenby from Reform (the parent organisation to Doctors for Reform). Reform is a corporate lobby group/thinktank whose advisory board includes key players from pharmaceutical firms and investment banks [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]). There was seemingly no attempt to counter-balance this right-wing slant (which incidentally is way out of line with public opinion, as the poll the report quoted shows), as the other contributors were the businessman Sir Geoffrey Robinson, two representatives of the middle-ground Kings Fund (Appleby and Dixon), a former member of the government (Darzai) and party-line politicians.

The result was not only a skewed debate where the audience was not made aware of the interests of key participants, but quite a dull segment that did not even scratch the surface of the issues affecting the NHS. In the last decade the NHS has undergone the biggest change in its history, as it has been wrenched into a market model, yet this was hardly mentioned. The costs associated with these experimental changes have been vast, and go a long way to explaining the problems the service now faces. Yet if Newsnight will not give time to contributors who will make this point, then how is the public to know?

Alex Nunns

#41 cookieducker

Not everybody supports the BNP or holds to fallacious racial views based on nonsensical science. Hitler is revered only by the far right and is the gold standard of evil for everybody else.

Quite why anybody would want to ask Jaded_Jean anything is beyond me.

Genetic variation is greater within a race than between races and so there is no basis in science for the pseudo race "realism" that Jaded_Jean espouses. It simply disguises the psychological mindset.

Quite often readers are treated to the far right "agnosticism" on the Holocaust. Bu of course the oft cited "statistics" presented by Jaded_Jean with regard to Jewish survival rates don't persuade Jaded_Jean - hence you wonder why they were presented. They will also not be offered to the trial of alleged Nazi war criminal Djemjanjuk. Nuremburg presented an overwhelming volume of evidence. On the currently showing "Auschwitz and the Final Solution" for instance you can view an SS Officer trying to explain how his indoctrination allowed him to relate the alleged "crookedness" of Berlin grocers to the massacre of Jews in Russia.

To date I have never gotten any explanation for the irrational hatred of Jews beyond the fact that Stalin ejected some in the thirties and Jaded_Jean believes there is, or was, a Jewish Communist International. But the racial component for assessing those ejected by Stalin could have been swapped for hair colour or eye colour.

Von Bruun, American Friend of the BNP and currently under arrest over the murder of a security guard in the US at a Holocaust Memorial holds similar views.

Hence his attempt to kidnap a US federal Bank member that led to a previous conviction on the basis that Jews controlled everything in the economy.

Apparently Nick Griffin thinks Jews control the media.

You don't have to froth at the mouth to be a far right "high end" thinker - but it probably helps.

thecookieducker (#41) Nick Griffin tried to give a coherent answer to the question on the AM show a week or so ago didn't he. It was a fair effort I thought, but vain nonetheless, and he was right to acknowledge that few would support forceable repatriation. Given the choice between many Blacks, Asians, Jews and so on over some White Europeans I know I'd often choose the former, but that isn't the issue, the root issue is native ability levels and what can be viably sustained by a distribution. groups need a range of abilities. Most people just don't understand this as they have been misled into believing that all people are 'plastic', and that phenotypic differences like skin colour are therefore not important. But the logic and science is all wrong in such people's thinking. People differ on a number of biologically important dimensions aside from height, and for decades, psychologists worked on what this might be, and finally came up with 'intelligence' as one major factor, the other being 'personality'. But these are technical constructs not what most peole think of whatn they read the terms. I emphasise the term factor. This is a data reduction term from Factor Analysis (many correlations) which means that after measuring lots of behaviours, some common 'essence' comes out in the statistical wash, and people can then be ordered relative to one another along that dimesion which is Gaussian or Bell Curve shaped. It is called 'g' or 'cognitive ability'. It is essentially inherited.

Groups differ in the mean level of this, and this is probably because of centuries of relative islation from one another along with breeding within groups after a major diaspora from NE Africa tens of thousands of years ago.

If one draws large number of people from some low ability groups, the end result will be an overall reduction in mean ability in the group one brings those members into. If mean ability is related to GDP as one would expect it to be, and as the empirical evidence now shows it to be (see OECD PISA if one does not like IQ), that will be bad for the receiving nation's economy, unless a spread of people is attracted, and the problem is, that is not what tends to happen. In fact, some European countries attract the best from low mean ability nations which seriously damages their infrastructure whilst not really helping the receiving nation much either.

But as you probably know, one can't explain all this to most people. Why not? The answer is in the above analysis :-(

#22 mimpromptu

I understand your frustration but remember that the far right posters on this page are going to use every device available to try and dominate those who post here.

But so long as the lies and propaganda are exposed as being baseless and they aren't allowed to create a far right culture on this page then there is not much to worry about I feel. Its like the London Assembly member who is going to have to explain three murders he had cited - that never existed.

Although that said you obviously realise how closely the views of those such as Jaded_jean coincide with people who have stepped over the line into criminality like Hitler clearly and more recently Von Bruun whose hatred of Jews led to the shooting of a security guard.

There was that chap in the North East arrested with ricin after encouraging other far rightists to terrorism. There is Lewington who was allegedly part of a cell looking to start a bombing campaign.

That then remains a problem for the moderators and I assume the police but I do hope that they are vigilant and not complacent on far right activists.

The intellectual incompetence of the far right seen on this page daily does not mean that some similar loony could not get lucky with a device and cause carnage.

I would have thought by now it would be clear how applications to higher education would present a clear picture.

Have applications from poor families dropped even further?

Are many universities finding that applications from countries like China (and some are heavily reliant on that income) have fallen away this year leaving a financial shortfall?

Has all of this PFI funded new building led to the state having to pick up the bill for projects that won't now get completed?

Are we to see a cull of talented lecturers as the financial crisis bites in whilst?

Is the "New Labour consultant culture" that has led to so much wastage in the NHS (not really emphasized last night) going to lead to a a reduction in spending on those lecturers at the coal face while the consultants continue to not add value?

Has the Audit Commission formed an assessment on the financial wisdom of PFI?

#11 brossen99

"However, its the Corporate Nazi top earning stock market celebrities who will decide to pull out of Afghanistan."

Its bizarre to read a far right poster who reveres Hitler using the phrase "corporate Nazi".

Perhaps the intention is to try and pull everybody else down into the gutter of racial prejudice typified by the BNP.

Perhaps its part of the ridiculous attempt to try and say the BNP are not a Nazi party they are a "modern and progressive party" - with no apparent policies and the National Socialist ideals barely hidden. Ideals that would see the end of democracy, eugenics, euthanasia and planned economics. You don't see that on the BNP literature.

The "naughty step" is part of the adolescent attempt to try and sweep away the condemnation of the vast majority of the public who despise the values and the real policies of the BNP.

#40 barriesingleton

"I am still waiting for one of the political programs to do a weekly spot where telling utterances from Gods of Olympus are dissected by a language expert and a psychologist. I began pleading in days of Blair.
I assert that such would go a long way to SPOIL PARTY GAMES."

Perhaps you were inspired by "Inside the Mind of Adolf Hitler" where his childhood adoration of his mother and some sort of soiling problems led to his psychological "issues" with Geli Raubal?

It also provided him with the motive force to engage in the utterly insane Holocaust and the destruction of Europe - including Germany.

Apparently the Americans even expected that he would shoot himself - possibly the only bullet he fired in two world wars.

But at the end I think people such as yourself are not "party members" but cult members. The BNP is not much more than an echo of the past that emulates the policies of Hitler.

His policies were ultimately no more than being a replacement aristocrat whose ideological views were a confection to gain and sustain power rather than a genuine intellectual expression.

thegangofone (various) "Not everybody supports the BNP or holds to fallacious racial views based on nonsensical science."

Identifying races and identifying racism are two different behaviours. Identifying dog breeds is not dogism. Can you tell the difference between different breeds of dogs or are they all the same? What accounts for the differences? Is it institutional dogism?

Please try to learn from helpful instruction, as that will help you make fewer mistakes in the future.

A lot of peole today make these mistakes. That is OK, what is not OK is making the mistake again and again, even after the error has been clearly pointed out - repeatedly. What do you call people who fail to learn from experience?

thegangofone (#48) "Have applications from poor families dropped even further?"

Is it true that applications from candidates with the right predicted grades from 'poorer families' have dropped? Or is this possibly a misuse of language? Have you looked at the report and its methods? Is it that when examined by income, less people from low income families do well at school and go on to higher education? What if the reason for that is that genes run in families and given that ability is largely genetic, low ability people who don't earn much through not being very highly skilled, produce children like themsleves?

Is that possible do you think, or are all people the same? Are all people the same height? If they had special government money would short peole be taller if they 'wanted to be'?

I was staggered to see the biased presentation of the NHS funding debate on Newsnight on 27 July. For the studio discussion Professor Karol Sikora was introduced as a critic of the NHS without any declaration of his interest as the medical director of private healthcare company CancerPartnersUK. It is not surprising that he says the NHS is unsustainable, given the large amount of money he stands to make from its demise. At the very least, this should have been made clear to viewers.

Neither was there balance in the rest of the feature. Sikora is a member of the steering committee of pro-privatisation group Doctors for Reform, yet this did not prevent Newsnight from also interviewing Sikoras colleague Andrew Haldenby from Reform (the parent organisation to Doctors for Reform). Reform is a corporate lobby group/thinktank whose advisory board includes key players from pharmaceutical firms and investment banks (see the Keep Our NHS Public website). There was seemingly no attempt to counter-balance this right-wing slant (which incidentally is way out of line with public opinion, as the poll the report quoted shows), as the other contributors were the businessman Sir Geoffrey Robinson, two representatives of the middle-ground Kings Fund (Appleby and Dixon), a former member of the government (Darzai) and party-line politicians.

The result was not only a skewed debate where the audience was not made aware of the interests of key participants, but quite a dull segment that did not even scratch the surface of the issues affecting the NHS. In the last decade the NHS has undergone the biggest change in its history, as it has been wrenched into a market model, yet this was hardly mentioned. The costs associated with these experimental changes have been vast, and go a long way to explaining the problems the service now faces. Yet if Newsnight will not give time to contributors who will make this point, then how is the public to know?

Alex Nunns

KCL (#23) "I supply that information just to put a bit of iron and substance behind my words."

You may think you do, but it's an ad hominem (cf argument from authority), you just don't see it. This is how narcissism and celebritism has poisoned our culture I am suggesting. Who is responsible?

Statements and systems of statements (conjunctions) should stand in their own right. That is the way of science. It is not because of who writes papers or who makes statements that things are true or important, it's the statements themsleves that matter. This has been forgotten in modern times, or spun for egregious political reasons, so much so that many professionals now despise those who betray their professions by appearing as chief this that or the other, or in other celebrity media guises. Do you see why?

Non bogus (non pseudo) competent scientists and other professionals in the true sense of the term (before it was highjacked) all know this.

So you have something to learn.

GO1 # 49

That's right GO1, everyone who disagrees with the ten bob fat cat corporate illusion of democracy we fly in this country is a BNP supporter but I can out " left " you any day. It is childish to post the same old rhetoric that if you don't agree with me you are BNP, go and have a look on facebook and find my New Commonwealth Party group. I suspect that you are too historically illiterate to remember the original commonwealth party and what it stood for.

tehgangofone (#45) "Apparently Nick Griffin thinks Jews control the media."

I don't know whether he does or doesn't, but if anyone did believe that, , any more than it is to discover who must wield most of the power in NYC given its demographics and group differneces? But, for some arcane reason, none of these facts seem to make any difference at all to your views. What would be an appropriate word to describe such behaviour do you think?

THEY DON'T DO PRO-JEWISH SURGERY - OR DO THEY? (#56 link)

Hmmmmmm Somewhere in the dust of Cheshire, the remains of my extremity lie, removed, in an echo of Jahweh-appeasment, by gullible quasi-Christians (my Mum and Dad). To quote Venkman in Ghostbusters: "I'd call that a big yes!" So, maybe if that bit of Abe Foxman's argument falls, then the Jews DO 'run Hollywood'! And a lot more?

So 'classes' of humans are the same as 'classes' of dogs, JJ. A fan of Charles Murray? Or are we back in the 19th century?

Alexbookoo was right to write that he 'was staggered to see the biased presentation of the NHS funding debate on Newsnight on 27 July.' And he was right in the rest of his comment.

What an incredibly condescending segment that discussion on the NHS. Is the Newsnight audience not entitled to know who is who in their panel of experts? Much more of that kind of propaganda from the Ö÷²¥´óÐã and it's going to be time to cancel the television licence.

53. At 4:39pm on 28 Jul 2009, Alexbookoo wrote:
..introduced as a critic of the NHS without any declaration of his interest

Prepared to be staggered some more in a 'news' environment shaped by enhanced narratives, interpreted events and 'facts' that get 'discussed' by a curiously select group of people whose mobile numbers are rather high on certain researchers' lists, and can be at the studio at the drop of an expense claim.

Truly... unique.

A* FOR CREATIVITY

barrie (#57) Chistianity:- a very clever Jewish invention circulated in books written by some Jewish entryists which encouraged gentiles to passively let some Jewish people get away with all sorts of stuff (usally belonging to naive and trusting Gentiles) and just turn their other cheek ;-).

Juno19 (#58) "So 'classes' of humans are the same as 'classes' of dogs, JJ. A fan of Charles Murray? Or are we back in the 19th century?"

Prima facie you don't appear to be very good at logical reasoning. Here's a tip. When you find yourself asking lots of questions it's usually a prety good sign that you have something to learn. Try not to get too confused by the bafflement, just spend a little time and try to work through what you don't understand, and if necessary ask some respectful questions.

Given that oceans and mountains etc serve as gene barriers and that different environments select different genes over time, how likely is it that human groups differ in important genetic ways just as dogs do?

AND THE MALE IS TOO SIMILAR TO COUNTENANCE! (#58)

Men piss on anything that points skyward. They cut across the grass when the path takes a square turn. They secretly like their own smell and can spot a tasty female right across the park. Further, regardless of size differntial, lust is ubiquitous.

Yeah: blokes are dogs.

ENTRYIST TRIMMING (#60)

I am just not going there JJ.

Why are we not 'doing' banks killing off small, viable businesses? I had a whole treatise about 'trading by credit terms' and the insolvent trader hiding in the sea of debt funded by bank loans. Come on NN. The great Vince Cable spake verily today. Where were you?

I worked for the NHS all my life. The only people I ever met who spoke of it as a cow, sacred or otherwise, were the few who milked it for money. I was never one of them.

now allmost all those we see or hear on the Ö÷²¥´óÐã discussing the future of the NHS discuss it as a sacred cow, "almost a religion", etc etc. Worst of all is Professor Sikora, director of a private medical care company and founder of the first private medical school in the UK, who is trotted out time after time to denounce the finest institution Britain ever created. could we please return to some balance on this. Kirsty should be ashamed.