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Tuesday 9 November 2010

Verity Murphy | 12:49 UK time, Tuesday, 9 November 2010

Tonight Matt Prodger reports on how many councils in England and Wales are saving money by turning off street lights.

Councils are not actually obliged to light the streets, so at a time of cuts, flicking the switch is an easy option. But what about the effects on public safety and crime? We'll be finding out.

Paul Mason will give us his take on Ireland's debt woes and the likelihood that Dublin will have to seek a bailout from European Union partners if it cannot get the crisis under control.

Plus we will be talking to Irish Finance Minister Brian Lenihan.

Michael Crick reports on anger among Labour MPs over their party leaders' treatment of former immigration minister, Phil Woolas, who has been suspended after an election court ruled that he should be stripped of his parliamentary seat, after he was found to have made false statements about an opponent.

George W Bush's memoirs are hot off the presses and we have had two people - former US Assistant Secretary of State Colleen Graffy and journalist Jonathan Freedland - speed reading all afternoon to give us their thoughts on the former president's tome.

And Stephen Smith has been meeting the legendary jazz pianist Herbie Hancock.

Join Jeremy at 2230 on 主播大秀 Two.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
From earlier:
Paul Mason will give us his take on the likelihood that Ireland will have to seek a bailout from European Union partners if it doesn't get its debt crisis under control.

As the cuts bite here, Matt Prodger has a report on councils turning off streetlights to save money.

We are speed reading our way through George W Bush's memoir Decision Points and have a film from Allan Little on how France's President Nicolas Sarkozy is doing.

More details later.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    100
    MILLION HAND PAINTED SEEDS (OF SUBVERSION?)


    Subverting the in a criminal offence in China, and the law holds for its leaders too. Inciting people to do this is to incite people to break the law. UN/EU/USA Human Rights are used to subvert foreign governments which are not libertarian. It's even used to keep the wrong sort of politics at bay, not that many artists and pop starts will see this..

    . If they hit back economically, you will know why 主播大秀. Meanwhile, freedom fighting dysfunctionals continue to ensure there is no effective regulation here, ensuring our economic decline. Try to work out what an IQ advantage of 5 points over us means when you are up against an educated population of 1,400,000,000 which prizes engineering and science over the arts.

  • Comment number 2.

    GREAT TITLE TAB02

    Are you going for the Susan Greenfield prize? (:o)

  • Comment number 3.

    I wrote to the 主播大秀 complaining of the dumbing down of Countryfile, and the sacking of these excellent women presenters. I got a reply stating that they were sure I would enjoy the show and it's new presenters, I DON'T.



    I hardly watch the programme now, I find it's like an activities show for smashing up the countryside.

  • Comment number 4.



    鈥淗arry, Lucas鈥檚 team has been questioning him for 72 hours and all we have is what we got from surveillance ..... The bomb will go off soon. We only have fourteen hours to save the Earth!鈥

    Harry did not want to look at Ruth. He did not want his love for her to cloud his judgement, but he had already realised that his options were running out.

    鈥淭ell Lucas to increase the offer to tickets for four to Le Mis with a taxi home afterwards!鈥

    Ruth felt herself tremble. She hoped that Harry did not sense her fear. She did not want her love for him to cloud her judgement, but she had already realised that their options were running out.

    鈥淗arry you know that is putting 鈥榬edacted鈥 under incredible pressure but I don鈥檛 think he鈥檚 going to play ball? Worse, what will the human rights lawyers say? Can we stretch to a pizza supper as well? It might just get us the answers we need?鈥

    Harry鈥檚 hands felt clammy. He could not look at the one true love of his life for fear that she saw through his rapidly fading strength. He was ashamed. He wanted to bang his clenched fists on the desk until they hurt. He wanted the responsibility to go away. He no longer felt he had the courage to decide. He hoped that Ruth did not sense his fear.

    鈥淓nough鈥 He roared 鈥淵ou鈥檙e pushing this, and me, too far!鈥 He raised his fist but his conscience caught hold. He knew that now was not the time for a Bafta winning gesture.

    鈥淧izza it is!鈥 He could hear his own voice cracking. 鈥淏ut only on a two for one deal!鈥

    Ruth felt her heart sink. She felt her body shake again. She knew full well that if Harry could raise his eyes to look at her he would not fail to see the abject horror she was so desperately trying to suppress. She did not want him to feel betrayal. She did not want to betray him. She knew that her love for him was clouding his judgement but also she now knew all options had finally slipped from their grasp.

    鈥淗arry ...鈥 Her voice faltered. She could feel the tame sting of salt tears in her eyes.

    She knew she must say what needed to be said. She yearned from the deepest recesses of her soul. Her pain welled.

    She desperately wanted to reach out and pull him to her. Each would give. Each would take. They would share in each others pain. But she knew it was too close to the watershed.

    鈥 Harry, are you sure? I want you to be as sure as you have ever been in your life? The Minister will deny everything and the press will hang you out to dry. All you will have left is your Knighthood!鈥

    Harry now knew that this was the moment to look at the woman he so truly loved. He knew that this was his moment of destiny. If he got this right another series was in the bag.

    鈥淢ake it so!鈥

    Harry knew this wasn鈥檛 enough. He had let down the British people, he had taken the Government to the edge. But his deepest hurt was that he was letting down Ruth!

    鈥淩uth!鈥 he called as she reached the always open door.

    Their eyes met.

    He knew. He needed to be there for her and she for him.

    His silenced soul screamed ..... He knew it was now or the moment may be gone forever!

    鈥淪ushi and a re-run of 鈥楨quus鈥 for tomorrow night OK by you?鈥

    Ruth smiled. Some words need never be said.

    The only man she would ever love had returned to her!

    Everything would be OK.






    And .... Oh yes! .....

    鈥淒irector. 主播大秀 People.鈥

    Are 鈥樦鞑ゴ笮 People鈥 so uncertain of themselves they need to be directed?

    (And does that include me?)



    And .... Oh yes! .....

    How come that no-one ever mentions that 鈥楬ousing Benefit鈥 is a massive ( almost surreal) subsidy to Employers and Shareholders?



    And .... Oh yes! .....


    Songs most befitting Politicians. No 1.


    Ms Harriet Her-own-person.


    鈥淪tand by your man.鈥






  • Comment number 5.

    ARE WE SPEED-READING BUSH AS FACT OR FICTION?

    Any chance you will play this clip at some point in the discussion? It does rather put the man (and fawning Tony) in perspective.



    I looked up the meaning of "bush"
    You could say it's "dense shrub" - at a push.
    When this thick vegetation
    Was leading a nation
    We all went to war in a rush.

  • Comment number 6.

  • Comment number 7.

    3

    dumbing down of countryfile? i remember when it was Farming Today [that was really good]. So this is at least 3 generations of dumbing down of what originally was a programme by farmers for farmers.

    i don't think the bbc has 'the good' has the highest idea of the mind. These days the central topic is the presenters themselves and their antics like on the Top Gear 'model'.

    It would be like NN instead of asking politicians questions about cuts asking them to see if they can get the hoop to the other end of the wire in the shortest time possible without setting off the lightbulb.

    like someone said a while back the inform, educate entertain motto has been reduced to entertain and that at great cost.

  • Comment number 8.

    4
    spooks is so pre credit crunch style. Its also like eastenders these days. They mainly interface with each other. Series 1 when they had a real spook advisor is just so much better.

  • Comment number 9.

    Ireland can't resolve its debt crisis. That's the point. Debts that can't be re-paid, won't be repaid. All these bailouts are a stalling tactic. The system was designed to crash, whilst the cunning made off with the loot!

    The term is "bankruptcy for profit". The S&L crisis in the 80s / 90s was just a warm up act for this sovereign level version:



    "Bankruptcy for profit will occur if poor accounting, lax regulation, or low penalties for abuse give owners an incentive to pay themselves more than their firms are worth and then default on their debt obligations. Bankruptcy for profit occurs most commonly when a government guarantees a firm's debt obligations."

    So given that the financial sector pays it's employees lots of money, the firms aren't really worth what they claim to be worth, and the Gvt is guaranteeing it's debt obligations, then it shouldn't take a Nobel Laureate to work out what is happening!

    Iceland / Greece / Ireland / Spain: They all foretell our future

  • Comment number 10.

    'DEFORM EVISCERATE AND ENTER-DRAIN' (#7)

    I feel sure that (aside from some unlikely genetic factor) female weather presenters are chosen for their 'diverting' speech quirks. I wonder if any leave, when they realise the truth of this? Or is dimness on the same gene?

  • Comment number 11.

    10

    it seem weather girls must always be pregnant so they can wave their bellies in front of us. Never seen an old weather woman on 主播大秀. where do they go once they can no longer be pregnant?

  • Comment number 12.

    @ Tabblenabble (from #43)
    What an interesting article Tabblenabble!I certainly do not dispute Professor Lynn's findings either. From statistics, it clearly states that "at the near-genius level (an IQ of 145), brilliant men outnumber brilliant women by 8 to one." I haven't read his book "Eugenics: A Reassessment," but I have managed to read through a brief synopsis of the book. The problem is, as soon as people hear the term 'eugenics' they often have negative connotations with the Nazis and ethnic cleansing/mass genocides, so the PC brigade will distance itself from eugenics as far as possible....it really is genetics - that is all.

    By using genetic engineering (embryo selection), it can produce a human with a far greater IQ, as well as eliminate inherited diseases/conditions such as diabetes, cystic fibrosis, etc.

    In Singapore, there currently are tax incentives for better educated women to produce more children - I remember you touching on that very subject not so long ago, when you were discussing the abolition of universal child benefits......how that had been the reason for child benefit in Britain the first place. No wonder the East has overtaken the West!

    Aside from genetic engineering in a laboratory, if two people with high IQs get married, they can produce children with higher IQs. Marrying within a known community has these advantages, where you know X's family history and you know your own family history too. (My parents can trace their written family records back to the 7th Century, and also back to the origins they came from, because they did not marry out of their faith or priestly background - in fact none of their family have.) It is not prejudicial, and these days not everyone follows it, but, it explains why, in a Jewish population of around 12 million (approximately 0.2% of the world's population), there are 172 Jewish Nobel Prize winners, ie, 21% of ALL Nobel Prize winners were Jewish :o)



  • Comment number 13.

  • Comment number 14.

    #7 Ah yes JC I used to listen to Farming Today, but alas factual information is not the 主播大秀s remit these days.

    And #11 You make another very good point JC! I've wondered if it's compulsory for weathergirls to be pregnant and use silly words such as oodles of rain, or wind bashing us, or we're gonna get a roasting today etc.

    Don't get me started on older women on the Beeb, they are non existant, I'm amazed Kirsty keeps working, over 40 and you're out with 主播大秀. I've yet to see a plump, grey haired, well spoken serious woman reading the news, and yet that describes an awful lot of the men.

    Have they forgotten that one of the largest sectors of our society is the silver tops, and half of them are women, and are never, ever represented on the 主播大秀.

  • Comment number 15.

    I'm certainly looking forward to Stephen's interview with Herbie Hancock tonight :o)

  • Comment number 16.

    ..and some more interesting developments...
    "US Predator UAVs arrive at secret Yemen base to hunt Al Awakli down"
    Source:

  • Comment number 17.

    MANY A SLIP TWIXT CAP AND LISP (#14)

    The casting couch never sleeps.

  • Comment number 18.

  • Comment number 19.

  • Comment number 20.

    "3. At 4:29pm on 09 Nov 2010, ecolizzy wrote:
    I wrote to the 主播大秀 complaining of the dumbing down of Countryfile, and the sacking of these excellent women presenters. I got a reply stating that they were sure I would enjoy the show and it's new presenters, I DON'T."


    Funny you should say that. I remarked in much the same way - words to the effect that the presenter was talking as if he had a Blue Peter audience, and some of the rest that I saw didn't make a lot of sense, so I checked I was watching the right programme. I didn't complain though, as sadly, I rather expect this these days :-(

    9. At 6:36pm on 09 Nov 2010, Hawkeye_Pierce wrote:

    "then it shouldn't take a Nobel Laureate to work out what is happening!"

    That's because it isn't really a Nobel.

    "The Prize in Economics, as it is referred to by the Nobel Foundation, was established and endowed by Sveriges Riksbank, Sweden's central bank, during 1968 on the Bank's 300th anniversary, in memory of Alfred Nobel's 1895 will"

    .

    Think of it more like a banksters' Oscar. Somewhat alarmingly it's also been disproportionately won by Jewish people (21 and it's only been running since 1969, and in its first 10 years from 1970 to 1988, 8 winners were Jewish). It's very much like Hollywood and other media awards, i.e. great for product (book etc) endorsement and jobs as advisors, but not much use for anything else I suggest. That's because economics is NOT a science, but they'd like you to think otherwise. Some people just love prizes, fame, the lights...etc.....


  • Comment number 21.

    12. At 7:09pm on 09 Nov 2010, Mistress76uk wrote:

    "it really is genetics - that is all."


    Yes, eugenics just means good-breeding. The term was coined by Francis Galton the founder of differential psychology (some say applied psychology), and yes, Jews have been doing it for centuries - some say they just didn't want their competitors to do it, hence all the horror stories to deter them.

    The PC brigade are right-wing libertarians peddling fairness, freedom and equality so they can fleece the dumb/naive, I fear. They want to keep that quiet for obvious reasons. Libertarians are in my view not very nice people, they are often lacking self-awareness too (as if they were truly aware of what they wee doing they would feel bad and stop surely?)..

  • Comment number 22.

    #11

    They go ice skating, for instance, with some to quite a good effect receiving many a stare and even imitation which, a very successful artist friend of mine tells me, it's one of the greatest accolades one can get, whether a man or a woman, I should add. Would you agree that that's exactly why Paxo's effect is going from strength to strength?

  • Comment number 23.

    #19

    This time, brush, I've watched a little of the embedded 'puppet' master, who does not seem, however, in my modest or otherwise opinion, have nowhere near the effect that some other greyed haired contemporaries have. Please see my #22.

  • Comment number 24.

    #23 update

    doesn't the 'puppet master' act under false pretences 'buying' his 'puppets' with false dosh?

  • Comment number 25.

    Street lights Lights go out crime goes up, accidents go up Saving money on lighting bills spend more on health and crime

  • Comment number 26.

    #20 Ha,ha, yes tab that's what I call it these days, Blue Peter for Grown Ups. It explains how you can go crashing through woods on your mountain bike, or drive through the mud on your quad bike, or splosh through the gorge, to polute the water, all good clean fun, ruining the place for wildlife, and terrifying the farm animals.

    Most countryside is better just walked through and observed, that's all.

    I notice they never mention the large amount of farmers who commit suicide each year. Or the problems in farming generally, especially upland ones, although agri business farms are going great guns.

  • Comment number 27.

    Nice little earner if you're foreign



    They'll be in and out of britain like a revolving door.

  • Comment number 28.

    And another hassard for farmers...



    These ruddy lanterns set light to crops and kill cows when they eat the wire rings left scattered around.

    And they make the most delightful flares over the sea, so the life boat goes out unneccesarily.

  • Comment number 29.

    "...Sensible and well balanced as Harriet"

    Really! Sensible, well Balanced and Harriet.
    Words never found nor heard in a sentence before... but we heard them tonight. I rewound that bit at x8, over ran, forwarded at x4, rewound at x2..
    Go on, catch it, say it yourself as well, try and keep a straight face.

    Jazz mmmm nice.
    'Herbie is the root'. yep that be the truth, for the last 30yrs anyhow.

  • Comment number 30.

  • Comment number 31.

    Interesting report by Paul on Ireland, and excellent debates by Jeremy with Brian Lenihan and then on Bush's new book too (:p at least we were not exposed to sex scenes 脿 la Blair!) Loved Stephen's interview with Herbie Hancock too..... :p honestly, would Herbie have worked for Steve Jobs if he was starting out now ;o)

  • Comment number 32.

    There was only one thing I did not understand in tonight's programme and that's why did Michael Crick say he did not go to 'such places', referring to Westminster bars. I'd love to go to one, haven't only been there to a dinner and a couple of gatherings, one on the balcony and one in a spacious and beautfiul room, the name of which, unfortunately, I cannot remember. But, although I have not been to any Westminster bars as such I have drunk there, both wine and champagne, which do seem to have a lovely warming effect on my body and soul.

    mim (^_^)(^_^)(^_^)(^_^)

  • Comment number 33.

    What a lovely piece on and the interview with Herbie Hancock by Stephen Smith with the additional bonus of the great musician speaking so warmly about our Susan, Boyle, and his enthusiasm for and the importance of discovery of new talents!!!!****

    mim

  • Comment number 34.

    #20

    Isn't it precisely what you're trying to do, mr table, hoping to get your 13/15 minutes of fame on the back of misery, suffering, discomfort, etc? I'm not quite sure yet but you may end up 'baking' in hot and bright lights.

  • Comment number 35.

    I'm not likely to read G W Bush's book but I might read the one that's being written by and worked on by Condoleezza Rice.

    Monika

  • Comment number 36.

    Remember the eighties joke, "Will the last worker to leave the UK please switch off the lights", well it looks as if the councils are taking it literally.

    We now have something in common with North Korea, who also cannot afford to run the street light.

    At least the astronomers will be happy.





  • Comment number 37.

    #28

    Tomorrow at some stage, dear Lizzy, I'm hoping to compose a ditty,
    Hopefully pretty, on a cow grazing this land, green and pleasant,
    As in the aria sung always in the Albert Hall on the Proms' last night.

    Sweet dreams on 'the rings scattered around'.

    mim

  • Comment number 38.

    Pity Jeremy wasn't better briefed on Ireland's banking crisis. Lenihan lied about the cost being only 鈧1.5 billion per year over 10 years. The Irish Government have already acknowledged the cost will be at least 鈧50 billion..and there's no end in sight yet.

  • Comment number 39.

    ROUND AND ROUND IT GOES

    An update on Ireland's woes tonight. Just bear in mind that it has a population of just 4 million with 1.5 million 'households' (not what hey seem). The definition of household is now a EU wide thing. It hide a lot of odd things. Bear in mind that the UK revenue for Tesco last year was 62 billlion (M&S 9). Poor old .

    I keep wondering where all our borrowing has gone - we were in debt by
    108 billion in 1991 and by 338 billion in 1997, last year it was 742 billion.Most gets spent on salaries for teachers, health workers (half our public sector), but that then goes (along with benefits) on stuff from Tescos and mortgages etc. Does Tesco securitize their income stream so they can expand, buy property etc? Maybe Paul could look into this can of worms? PEOPLE AS CONDUITS could have been another title. Big bust in NYC....

  • Comment number 40.

    "18. At 8:42pm on 09 Nov 2010, mademoiselle_h wrote:
    I don't agree with TabbleNabble's view on Men v.s. Women. You don't need an intelligence of 145 to succeed in life."


    Rather than not agree, you probably don't understand my and Lynn's point This is a statistical issue, it is a matter of frequencies. It has nothing to do with 145. There are as there are females. Back in the 60s when Eysenck wrote "Know Your Own IQ" he remarked that it was extremely unlikely that you would find people in universities with an IQ of under 115. Those with an IQ over 115 comprise just 16% of the population. This is why there were more males than females at university back then, the ability levels differ. It only changed when standards were lowered. You do need bright people to effectively run things, including countries. The Chinese know this, that's why they put engineers in charge. Women tend not to go into those areas. It's genetic. Their brains are physically different from males, this is probably because males have some extra genes which females do not have.

    Both sexes have one active X, but males also have some extra genes on their Y which causes a cascade. These genes are unique to males. It is why males are bigger too. Female intelligence is more verbal than spatial, male more spatial than verbal. Males build, women don't.

  • Comment number 41.

    ENTROPY DAVE HAS SEEN THE FUTURE - IT HAS LOTS OF EXCITING APPS

    Dave has told the Chinese that the future of the world lies in their embrace of CONSUMER goods. Does he know what CONSUME means? Has he not realised that the 'end' product tends towards tish?

    Doesn't look as if he read any philosophy before the trip. Did an arms merchant go with him?

    Finite world - infinite Dave. For everything else there is Obamacard.

    Weep world

  • Comment number 42.

    #40

    don't they?

    i'm only a girl and have been contributing to the construction of a few castles, something which seems to be appreciated, a bit at least

  • Comment number 43.

    #39

    do you have shares at Tesco's, mr table??

  • Comment number 44.

    #41

    What idiot would volunteer a conduit to be?
    It definitely was not me.
    I prefer to be a witch with a stick
    With which to bash conduits like thee.

    mim

  • Comment number 45.

    Our councils turn off our lights, to allow benefit fraud like this....

  • Comment number 46.

    BUT THE LIGHT IS JUST RIGHT FOR CAMERA-CAMERON's CHINA PHOTOSHOOT (#45)

    Hi Lizzy. I was watching Dave being all stiff and posed, in China - thought perhaps he was a bit unsure. Suddenly realised THIS is what the new Daverazzi are for! And the twit was so 'camera aware' that he made himself look more daft than usual.

    Some are born to leadership - some have leadership thrust upon them. The rest are just pathetic, needy, deluded British Prime Ministers.

  • Comment number 47.

    I'm so pleased we pour money into Pakistan, while they in turn plan to hang a christian woman for blasphemy!

  • Comment number 48.

    #46 The rest are just pathetic, needy, deluded British Prime Ministers.

    Ah Barrie we seem to have had a whole string of them lately, it's all me,me,me, I thought it was my generation that were supposed to be like that!

    Although I would say Dave is a very good actor, he's missed his vocation.

  • Comment number 49.

    Oh and dodgy MPs are in the news again! Now they are headed for criminal trials....

  • Comment number 50.

    It's a good piece of news that DC has secured a contract for the Rolls Royce with India. Perhaps, as Lizzy says at #38, the Prime Minister's acting skills helped or was it his other negotiating qualities that helped the RR in this case and the UK as a consequence?

  • Comment number 51.

    #41

    Which 'NYC' are talking about, mr table? My new boyfriend?

  • Comment number 52.

    ALL MPs DODGY BY ASSOCIATION (#49)

    Westminster is a 'rotten barrel'. All MPs either conform to, or connive at, rotten-apple-ways.

    Remember how the Law backed off from implicating No 10 over cash for honours? This current sideshow is a pretence that politicians are NOT above the law. A sop for the gullible.

    The Westminster Ethos is a disgrace. I do so hope some Chinese Gentleman has politely told 'Democratic Dave' a few damning home truths, and suggested that the Man of Honour, faced with Dave's record of deceit, would ritually despatch himself forthwith.

  • Comment number 53.

    #37 update

    Ecolizzy

    As promised, here's the ditty I promised to write last night. I'm not yet sure whether it's only the beginning of my musings on the subject or whether I shall leave as it is, a 4-liner:

    There is a mad pinky cow
    Grazing the meadows of this pleasant land,
    As portrayed on her pinky bright socks
    Where also features a warm shiny heart.

    mim

  • Comment number 54.

    47. At 09:26am on 10 Nov 2010, ecolizzy wrote:
    I'm so pleased we pour money into Pakistan, while they in turn plan to hang a christian woman for blasphemy!


    If I were her, I'd take up cricket asap. That way half the 主播大秀 will be flying there to emote before you can say 'blown budget'.

    Mind you, it's hard to keep track. A few years ago the government was being lauded for the eco-wisdom of dimming the lights but is now being hauled up for the cuts consequences of doing the same thing.

    Mind you, that was a different time.

  • Comment number 55.

    "41. At 08:45am on 10 Nov 2010, barriesingleton wrote:
    ENTROPY DAVE HAS SEEN THE FUTURE - IT HAS LOTS OF EXCITING APPS

    Dave has told the Chinese that the future of the world lies in their embrace of CONSUMER goods. Does he know what CONSUME means?"


    Puzzling isn't it? does he not know that China produces most of these consumer goods and has 20x more consumers too? Then its got the rest of Asia, Russia, Africa and lots of South America. Even India has been eyeing the SCO (along with Iran, Pakistan etc), and the . They don't like libertarians much, and like Oppositionally Defiant children, that's what we'll stay - nobody will tell us what to do, even if it's for our own good? Where have we seen that behaviour before?


  • Comment number 56.

    #52

    While I, singie, hope that the Prime Minister raised the issue of the abominable mistreatment of the Chinese artist, Mr Ai Weiwei, and the Chinese Nobel Peace Prize Winner, Mr Liu.

    There is nothing wrong or abominable about keeping an eye on the conduct of the British politicians, and that's largely what the journalists occupy themselves with, but if you or mr table lived in China and even attempted to say a fifth or a third of what you rant about on these pages, would be either properly dead or muttering under your breath in a cell in some prison or other.




  • Comment number 57.

    #56 addendum

    And I do not like the way you go on with your criticisms of Westminster, neither your tone and style, nor the tricks you & co get up to which in the long run will prove nothing else but ineffective.

  • Comment number 58.

    Street Lights

    so we are turning street lights off while subsiding through carbon trading taxes for china to build a new coal power station a week? Does no one else spot the madness of this wealth transfer. Why do people claim the uk is a rich country? do rich countries turn lights off?

    Bailing out

    banks should have been allowed to go bust then immediately bought by the state for 拢1. But the major shareholders are part of the establishment so an outcome in favour of the general population was never going to happen. So the shareholders got a massive subsidy from the poor to keep them rich in a huge wealth transfer. The pips will squeak but it won't be the rich ones.

  • Comment number 59.

    54. At 11:06am on 10 Nov 2010, JunkkMale wrote:
    47. At 09:26am on 10 Nov 2010, ecolizzy wrote:
    I'm so pleased we pour money into Pakistan, while they in turn plan to hang a christian woman for blasphemy!

    If I were her, I'd take up cricket asap. That way half the 主播大秀 will be flying there to emote before you can say 'blown budget'.


    True. More generally, the emoting varies in operant strength too, and it appears to vary over time cyclically (which makes it hard to make sense of for all concerned). It also appears to be a function of development and when that stopped cognitively (intelligence, girls plateau earlier, late teens). It is thus best seen as child-like behaviour, as a child's view of the world tends to revolve around self as it knows no other.

    Children are under-socialised. To the child/infant, everything is related to self and feelings, with little awareness that others exist and also have feelings, and so there's little chance of a child grasping that adults have learned to relate to the world as the sine qua non for becoming an adult. It's why males are expected to protect them and why women were once expected to respect men. Countries markedly differ in their level of development becomes of the composition of their populations growing in relative isolation over long periods. Most people don't understand what that really means. They think it's just economic, but it isn't, and as some have pointed out and that's what most - as they don't have a biological background so they write 'narratives', as that's all that they know. Again, it's somewhat child-like.

    Some of us warned of the looming crisis years ago....based on data.
    Predictably, most ignored this.

    In passing, as nobody has been executed for blasphemy in Pakistan and there are moves to have the law repealed, maybe this is just political?



  • Comment number 60.

    58. At 12:40pm on 10 Nov 2010, jauntycyclist wrote:
    Bailing out

    banks should have been allowed to go bust then immediately bought by the state for 拢1. But the major shareholders are part of the establishment so an outcome in favour of the general population was never going to happen. So the shareholders got a massive subsidy from the poor to keep them rich in a huge wealth transfer. The pips will squeak but it won't be the rich ones.


    But as some of the major shareholders would have been pension funds what would the consequences have been? Please go and look at the Blue Book for 2000 and 2010 (links provided earlier). Go to Chapter 4, and look at Table 4.19 in both books to see the figures for AF.34 Financial derivatives from 1991-209 and note how this figures in total securities other than shares. The figures are in billions note.

    Practical question:- if they had gone bust, that would have meant that all those people (including state pensioners) would have lost their pensions surely? If so, where would their pensions come from? How would they eat?

    As I say, there is a risk that if one thinks in terms of metaphysics (e.g 'the good' instead of goods) one is likely to end up indulging in magical thinking which has in the history been a form of acceptable social madness I suggest. This is dangerous. It is superstitious behaviour because it is uninformed/unconstrained by fact. Can you see this? This does not legitimise what was done through secuitization or to suggest that banks being bailed out is a 'good' thing, it is just stating that sometimes there is no alternative as the other alternative is far worse :-(

  • Comment number 61.

    60

    an adjusted pension bill of billions would have been cheaper than a bottomless hole of trillions that drags everyone down? Most pensions are ponzis and will blow up anyway.

    Also pensions in the market are 'at risk'. It seems everyone wants the profit of the 'market' but not the risk? who is indulging in magical thinking here?

    why do people think pension money in the market is guaranteed?

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