England ratings v Samoa (106)
- 22 Sep 07, 05:27 PM
Nantes - I was at the Stade de la Beaujoire on Saturday as England survived another scare against Samoa before .
Here’s how I rated each individual England player’s performance. See whether you agree and give us your own thoughts.
Josh Lewsey – Coped well under plenty of pressure, mopping up well and saving a certain try when the score was 26-22 and Samoa were pressing. Some of his kicking was not convincing though when England needed to get the ball off the park. 6
Paul Sackey – Still unconvincing in his some of his defensive work, but showed his attacking worth especially late on. Raced onto Wilkinson chip for easy first try, ran a good angle to put Corry in for his second, and showed his pace to beat Alesana Tuilagi on the outside to secure a bonus point in injury-time. 6
Mathew Tait – Looked to find space but struggled to find any, and his pass to no-one down the left flank when the game was in the balance almost cost a try. Replaced by Hipkiss late on. 5
Olly Barkley – Provided an invaluable second kicking option without providing the same authority he had in the box-seat against the USA. Made a couple of half-breaks but generally well shackled with ball in hand. 6
Mark Cueto – Looked lively cutting in from the left wing and went looking for work, popping up in the line on the right flank on occasion. Almost scored in opening minute, but also lost a couple of balls in contact. 6
Jonny Wilkinson – Had a hand in three of England’s four tries, giving scoring passes to Corry and Sackey, and chipping through for Sackey’s opener. Kept the scoreboard ticking over in first half and after a surprising miss at 26-22, steadied himself to see England home with a second drop-goal and penalty from halfway. Relief all-round when his head was still on after Brian Lima’s high tackle. 7
Andy Gomarsall – A reassuring presence and a polished performance, providing the direction at scrum-half missing against South Africa. Covered back superbly, made several vital clearing kicks to touch, and tackled bravely too. England’s best player. 8
Andrew Sheridan – Had the Samoan scrum under pressure at times and put in a good shift at the coalface, working hard around the rucks. Only a couple of charges with ball in hand, replaced by Freshwater for final 25 minutes. 6
George Chuter – Found his men well in line-out, one not-straight throw apart, and provided extra energy in the loose, showing a fine range of pop-passes and offloading skills as well as solidity at the set-piece. A fine outing. 7
Matt Stevens – Scrummaged soundly to keep his end up and more, and burrowed away at close quarters, without finding too much opportunity with ball in hand. 6
Simon Shaw – Chargedown in first minute led to England’s opening try, solid supply of line-out ball and picked his moments well to run onto passes. Also appeared to take a lead in addressing problems as they arose, before being replaced by Borthwick. 6
Ben Kay – Tremendous line-out display, claiming all his own ball as well as being a real nuisance to the Samoans, snaffling several of their throws. Worked hard around the field too, one delightful off-load, and big improvement all-round. 7
Martin Corry – Showed good strength to finish his opening try and stamina for his second late on, reward for a punishing afternoon in the back-row battle. Also claimed a couple of Samoan line-outs. 6
Joe Worsley – Did exactly the job Brian Ashton wanted when he selected him for this match, putting in a string of important tackles at vital times, meeting the likes of Henry Tuilagi head-on at the gain line. Warmly applauded as he went off late on. 7
Nick Easter – A couple of decent charges off the back of scrum and did some useful work on the ground, winning one good turnover, and at re-starts. A solid, rather than spectacular outing. 6
Replacements:
Perry Freshwater – Replaced Sheridan after 64 minutes and helped shore up the set-piece superiority. 6
Steve Borthwick – Came on for Shaw after 64 minutes and put himself about. 6
Lewis Moody – Came on for Worsley for the final 10 minutes, throwing himself into tackles. 6
Dan Hipkiss – Came on for Tait for final eight minutes,
Not used: Mark Regan, Peter Richards, Andy Farrell
Bryn Palmer is the Ö÷²¥´óÐã Sport website’s rugby union editor.
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Generally agree with ratings, Gomarsall was everywhere. But thought Corry proabably deserves a 7
Good job by England, it showed radical improvement from before. Kicking really let them down, especially when we could put them under pressure in lineouts by going to touch, but decided to do some useless boot to the middle of the park.
However as I said a radical improvement, and the forwards looked a real force. Chuter was excellent and I think Easter proved his worth. Jonny did really well to say the pressure that was on him and his lack of match practice.
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I tad harsh with some of those marks I have to say.
I thought Nick Easter gave some valuable go forward and some big hits to neutralise the Samoan 'power' game. I think it was a very positive performance.
I thought Barclay looked confused at 12, he didn't seem to know what to do with ball in hand. This in turn had a knock on effect with Tait. Still an area to work on. If all Barclay is going to do is find contact, then we might as well try Farrell again.
Still alot of work to do in midfield.
I thought Sackey earned more than a 6. Scored two and set up another. Perhaps suspect in defence, but I would take that to gain his threat. More of an 8 for me.
I thought the lads did well, very encouraging. No where near the finished article, but at least we have some areas to be positive about, and more specific areas to work on, as opposed to everything.
One of the key areas to work on is the 10/12 Axis, and the kicking game.
Awful again. We gave them the points as we did against the Boks. That needs some urgent work. It was aimless again, but they say a kick is as only good as the chase. Not once did the wingers give chase. There is something wrong there.
But like I said, at least Ashton can look at some specifics. Unlike the Boks game when it was basically everything that needed urgent work.
Well done the lads, particularly Easter (8), Gomersall (8), and Chuter (8) for some lively positive performances.
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I really don't agree with this "second kicking option". The most important features of the centres are defence, handling and breaking the line. Ollie was good at 10, but not at 12. As will Greenwood said Tait didn't manage much because he didn't get any fast ball. As Catt is unfortunately past it and Farrell is not deemed to have found it yet, we seem stuck with 10's in the 12 spot.
Only other major quibble is that Easter had a very good game at last - I would say 7 at least.
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Why do England keep giving chances to Mathew Tait? I hate to be harsh, but I have seen no evidence yet that this lad is international class. Sure, he is quick and has done well at sevens, but with the big boys of 15-a-side he is like a rabbit in the headlights - physically fragile, poor decision making and no ability to break the line. What has Hipkiss done wrong?
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I tad harsh with some of those marks I have to say.
I thought Nick Easter gave some valuable go forward and some big hits to neutralise the Samoan 'power' game. I think it was a very positive performance.
I thought Barclay looked confused at 12, he didn't seem to know what to do with ball in hand. This in turn had a knock on effect with Tait. Still an area to work on. If all Barclay is going to do is find contact, then we might as well try Farrell again.
Still alot of work to do in midfield.
I thought Sackey earned more than a 6. Scored two and set up another. Perhaps suspect in defence, but I would take that to gain his threat. More of an 8 for me.
I thought the lads did well, very encouraging. No where near the finished article, but at least we have some areas to be positive about, and more specific areas to work on, as opposed to everything.
One of the key areas to work on is the 10/12 Axis, and the kicking game.
Awful again. We gave them the points as we did against the Boks. That needs some urgent work. It was aimless again, but they say a kick is as only good as the chase. Not once did the wingers give chase. There is something wrong there.
But like I said, at least Ashton can look at some specifics. Unlike the Boks game when it was basically everything that needed urgent work.
Well done the lads, particularly Easter (8), Gomersall (8), and Chuter (8) for some lively positive performances.
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I have to disagree with Post 4.
Anyone who is playing in the 13 at the minute is struggling massively. Noon has done nothing as 13, but not all his fault.
Defensively Tait has been solid, the odd discrepancy, but you would expect that. We either have a solid powerful 13 or one with guile. We can't find someone who has both.
If we sort the problems with 12, I think 13 will sort itself out. Would like to see Hipkiss at 12 to be honest. An out and out centre. I don't like this overwhelming desire of Ashton to have two 10s playing to give different kicking options.
We should have less emphasis on kicking away possesion and more on line breaking. We are getting bogged down around 10/12 and its impacting on the whole back play.
The wings and full back have struggled because of the 10/12 failings. Lets leave it along.
I would like to see Jonny at 10 and Dan Hipkiss at 12 - I think that would help open up the backline.
Ashton has seen all the other options fail, he might as well give it a go.
As a final point - I am just watching Quins v Leeds and there is a 12 in action who made some huge strides forward (literally as well as metaphorically) aged just 17. Now 19 and improving all the time - everyone should be looking out for Jordan Turner Hall of Harlequins.
The future is bright.
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Seems the England Rugby team have decided to replace Tim Henman as English sports biggest stress causer.
A great start followed by a dogged 2nd quarter, a 3rd quarter where we seemed to lose concentration and a strong finish is just how Tim dealt with unseeded opponents at Wimbledon!
Tonga will not be a walkover but surely we have to win. If we can play the 2nd and 3rd quarters like we played today's 1st and 4th we could well surprise Australia (or at least keep it close).
Worried about the centre's, as mentioned above. If Toby Flood is now in training with the team should he come in for Olly Barkeley?
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If Sackey doesn't warrant any more than a 6, why does Wilksinson? His kicking out of hand was poor and he missed a few kicks at goal.
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Near enough spot on with your ratings. Gommersall was outstanding and he should of played from the start in the opening 2 games. Corry should have 7 he did well in the re-starts, Kay had a far better game and Easter worked extermely hard. Still a lot of work needed, particularly in midfield and kicking but it was an improvement than last week. We will beat Tonga by 10 points.
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Hmm. Tonga ran the Boks very close indeed, and beat Samoa despite being down to 13 men. England will have to step up a gear, at least. Dawson was right when he said that Samoa would have to open up towards the end which could let England in, but credit your boys, they got the job done, eventually.
That said, the scoreline flattered England, and without Wilkinson's boot (and drop goals) you could easily have lost that game. The report card reads, I think, must do better.
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Generally fair ratings all round. I thought the scrum half was the best English player by a long way.
Tait is the right player in the wrong side. He's got plenty to offer in terms of pace and football skills, but needs quick ball, crisp passing and good support runners - none of which he's going to get from this English side.
A much improved performance, but still plenty of causes for concern I would suggest. The fact is Samoa has under-performed badly this RWC and the stiffer test for England is likely to come from Tonga (who looked more than capable of an upset against the Boks).
This performance doesn't fix anything in the medium or long-term, but it might just be the spingboard to a QF.
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re: what has hipkiss doen wrong
a, hes a tigers player and thus deemed overrated or not good enough for england (see chuter not being picked for previous games)
b, he had tonsilitus for a week or so....
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what a true picture... but that means the ratings for the other day were fictionally high..... atleast it was a performance which did not leave me cringing....... luckily i smiled for the first time in a while!
good decisions. apart from probably wilkinson... he played well for part, he is showing that he is out of touch with the game but a 6 was more warranted. i believed sackey deserved a higher score.
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Altogether a different team and at last a highly watchable match.
Happy to agree with the majority of the player scores, but ..
Nick Easter made some very fine carries and showed himself to be a powerful addition to the scrum. Certainly deserves a 7 in my book. Arguably even an 8.
Olly Barkley looked confused, so I'm afraid he didn't merit more than a 6 on my list.
And George Chuter was definitely worth another pip, so he's an 8 on my scorecard too. Every time the forwards stayed tight and gained territory Chuter was right at the heart of things.
Jonny a 7? Difficult to mark him down, I know. But I doubt he'd give himself more than a 6 today.
Roll on Tonga. At least there's some momentum to do so ..
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Good to get a no9 who snaps the ball away quickly from the breakdown.
As for Tait - most of us know Rugby know he is of a high enough standard (comment 4). He just doesn't normally get to play in the right position for England.
Good to see good power from the scrum again (as against SA.
I just want to see Shaw use his considerable weight in the loose more, rather than trying nice delicate bits around the fringes.
Otherwise a good job, well done!
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I agree with number 4 - what has Hipkiss done wrong? Last season he was one of the best outside centres in the premiership - especially with his line breaks which we have seen no hint of from Tait. I respectfully ask this qu...where did Hipkiss's Leicester come last season...and where did Tait's Newcastle come?
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Ratings not too far off the mark. Gomarsall the outstanding player of the team today.
Did anybody else notice the England back row sometimes coming off second best at the breakdown? Moody and Rees are talent. More use of them please Ashton.
Probably a fair point about Hipkiss at 12. In form centre in the Premiership last season and could release Tait at outside given the chance.
Tonga could yet prove a banana skin based on their performance today.
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What about Lewis? Presumably he gets a 10 for reffing to England all through the second half and then adding on a load of unwarranted extra time at the end to give England every chance of a bonus point.
England's most valuable contributor today. How the "lesser" nations are ever likely to make progress - and let's face it that's not the only time we've seen a "top tier" nation favoured in this tournament - is beyond me.
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no15.
How did Hipkiss' forward pack finish the season compared to Taits forward pack?
That says more about the teams success' than Tait v Hipkiss!
Between the much derided Noon, Tait, Flood and May (all English) the Newcastle backs often out perform there packs ability!
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I have to agree with post 5. Nick Easter was great, he made real in roads and deserves more than a 6. If our forwards are going to run at people they must run like Easter and not just lumber into people. Barnsey made the point om the commentary, strength is nothing without power; Easter looked powerful. Also think Sackey deserves a 7, good to see him looking more comfortable at international level. Finally, so pleased Gomarsall played well. He may not be a match winner but at the moment he is exactly what we need given our resources.
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Glad everyone has now realised tha Gomersall is England's No1 scrum half. I was touting him long before the world cup, when everyone was saying 'You've got to be kidding etc.' He provides what England needs: quick ball.
As everyone has observed, the centres are a real problem. Personally, I'd go back to Farrell and Hipkiss, with Hipkiss instructed to stay on Farrell's shoulder ready for offloads when in attack.
The last thing as regards negatives is that I still don't believe Sackey and Corry are international class. Yes, Sackey scored two tries, but tries any winger should have scored and spent large periods of the game with his hands in his pockets, watching the game go by. Corry is just simply not fast enough or aggressive enough against higher quality opposition. Come to think about it, not so sure about Coeto either. Hope Robinson's back soon.
Positives are that the tight 5 are bang on, with Chuter really bringing in some added impetus. I've slated him in the past for giving away too many daft penaties, but his display today was both controlled and aggressive. It was nice to see Jonny in better form too - not at his best, but he's getting better.
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Should have taken Shane Gerhaty would of been very useful against Boks especially with his great link up play with Mike Catt a shame Mike coming to the end of his Career would have been an amazing partnership i believe i see it every week with London Irish
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I think that several of these scores are a joke. Captain Corry, scored 2 tries and achieved a win, at least 8. Worsley gave away penalties and was hardly dynamic 5 or 6, please start with Moody. St Wilkinson made some very poor field kicks, confused his backs and generally made too many mistakes. 6 maximum
Olly B cloned the flyhalf and agve the backs no room, 5. Josh Lewsey made so many errors that 15 is not the place for him imho,worth 4 poss 5. Sackey made one try, scored another, was given very little ball with any space at all so 7. Cueto did very little at most 5.
I agree that Gomersall saved the day today in many ways 8.
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A solid performance from england today but thought that the scoreboard flattered them slightly. They will need to be much improved against Tonga who pushed Samoa and South Africa close, might be more a battle of fitness at the end of the pool stages. I Thought that Easter, Corry and Sackey deserved higher marks, Jonny should only have got 6, but jonny is jonny. I Would like to see Hipkiss starting at outside centre with Flood at inside. It might be more balanced and Flood is playing well for Newcastle at the moment.
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As usual the majority of England supporters rush to their golden boy Tait's defence? England are so desperate to have a flair player in the midfield, another Guscott, that they're pinning their hopes on a callow youth who's looked good against average players on the sevens circuit.
I accept he's been in and out of the side and not had much ball but he has still done NOTHING. No glimpses of genius or searing breaks when he has had the chance. Jamie Noon has been England's best back for 2/3 years yet his place is still questioned because he is not a flashy player. Hipkiss has a great season with Leicester, does very well on his debut v Wales and is then left out in favour of Tait. Why???
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At last a good old fashioned performance by a scrum-half. A decent perfomance against Tonga and maybe England will have some shape before Australia -
Was good to see Corry with a smile on his face after all his problems last year.
As an Irish follower - I guess England has at least tried a host of options so most guys in the squad will think they have had a fair chance.
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Well, I suppose after this earth-shattering victory against Samoa, England will be retaining their World Cup. It only takes one brief turn of events for them to be back up there and "in charge". Johnny their ever-shimmering icon.
Bring on Tonga!!
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What about the ref, I would be infavour of a severe minus. What do you have to do to get a red/yellow card , take someones head off!!!As for some of the referals on the trys it looked prety obvious he was not going to give the rose any benefit. Good job the 4th. ref was nor also a leek
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Easter Deserved a higher rating, he did some very good ball carrying. Hopefully Lewsey will improve on this performance because he is a quality player. Good to see Corry back on form also. Ollie Barkley was no good, it's just not his position.Might as well use Mike Catt, hes had more experience in this role
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Much better performance. Worried by rose tinted opinion of Gomersall and Worsley. There must be better options. Corry is the nearest we have to Jonno when it comes to marshalling a pack of forwards. Still work to be done but feel more optimistic.
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Largely agree with your ratings, except I'd knock Wilkinson & Worsley down from 7 to 6 and mark Corry & Easter up from 6 to 7. For the next game, if all fit, I'd keep the team intact except:
a. Move Lewsey back to Wing vice Sackey (Sackey is defensively weak but could be good off the bench; Lewsey's kicking game is weak for full-back). Cueto looked more himself today & stays on the other wing.
b. Put Robinson at full-back (he may be short but he's great under the high ball & can break more effectively from 15.)
c. Give Wilkinson and Barkley another go to try & get it right at 10 & 12 (not great today but with more practice....?) and put Hipkiss outside at 13. Gomarsall was our best today & stays at 9.
d. Keep the front & second rows intact (Chuter made some deft touches today & his beard is starting to look awesome - Carl Hayman watch out! (in fact not wanting to mention the Association code but does anyone remember Derek Hales who used to play for Charlton & Derby in the 70s (champion beard-sporter)??; Stevens is a far better scrummager and more dynamic in the loose than Vickery now (altho neither are a patch on our lord Jeff Probyn!) - & Corry is a much better captain/leader (that's why Action Man modelled their figurine on him - they even included the under-eye scar!).
e. Bring back Rees for Worsley - we lack pace otherwise.
f. On the bench I think I'd go with Vickery, Mears, Moody, Dallaglio (Corry can cover lock), Richards, Tait, Sackey.
g. Tactics wise we've just got to concentrate on getting faster ball & knocking interferers out of the way at the breakdown; and cutting out the aimless deep kicks which give the ball away. We should be able to get past Tonga & then I think we can gather momentum. I think we'll need about 70% possession to beat the Aussies, but with their tight five I think we could achieve that, as long as we don't just kick the possession away.
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Much improved performance, but so impotent in the midfield. Looking at the squad, and assuming he is fit, we must try a centre partnership of Farrell and Robinson...it seems like the only partnership liable to give us any real spark.
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I think Wilkinson proved his worth due to his goal kicking, but I think Tait is not a good enough player, he running angles are poor, and he lacks decisiveness. I think Sackey played well enough, but I don't think he is any good at going round a man, he seems to slow down for contact and is a bit suspect in defence, but to be fair he played well enough.
Lewsey's kicking was poor, and Barkley didn't really do alot, but other than that the backs did well.
Forwards did well, still a bit static going forward and far to slow when they pick-up off the back of a ruck, Corry is a far too slow to be a back row, Worsley played alright.
Overall verdict, played alright, will get beaten by australia if we play like that, with no incisiveness going forward!
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I am not sure what Tait has done to the Author of posts 4 and 24 to get such a hard time!
No one is suggesting Tait is the answer to all our problems, but the rating (which this blog is discussing) which was given was very low.
The comments regarding Tait reflect the reasons for a low score.
We need an outside centre with flair for those rare occaisions we create some space.
Noon is solid at best, but to be honest our problems for the last 4 years in the backs have been because we have had no flair. Plenty of ball, but cutting edge. Noon must hold his hands up as part of that. Tait is an exciting option. But as discussed in this blog the problems don't lie with him, its at Inside Centre where they are.
At the end of the day, we need speed in this team at certain points. Tait is that cutting edge, we are just letting him down by not giving him a chance. And thats all the comments are saying - let him have a go. Hes not done too much to date, but he has had such limited chances.
Give him a fair crack. He is quality.
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Bit harsh on Easter, I thought he was excellent - splaying bodies everywhere when he carried. He made a massive hit in the first half where England turned the ball over.
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Wilkinson may have made one or two errors but he also exerted enough control to win us the match. To criticise him is absurd.
We still need to `clear out` bodies at the ruck and keep mauls going forward. A fast tempo must be maintained. Gomersall`s influence was huge and if given the best possible ball consistently, he is in the right sort of form to make the correct decisions.
Midfield still remains a problem but Barkley and Tait have the control and pace to provide us with options......as long as the right calls are being made.
To summarise, all we need to do is to keep cool under pressure and make the right decisions. We can trust JW to call the shots....so why not bring back Dallaglio to provide the forwards with leadership? The right patterns of play have to be called for at the right times...it is not enough to simply `lead by example`.
Bad luck on Easter but it will take a big call like this one to get us through against Tonga and get the team ready for Australia.
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WELL DONE WILKO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I agree with lots of this stuff.... man for man we are not that far off some of the southern hemisphere boys but at centre we look dreadful.. I was a huge Tait fan. He's awesome at sevens at I remember all those comments when he made his debut that he played above his weight. In fact for England in the 15 game he has shown absolutely nothing, zilch, nada. We have to go with Hipkiss and hope he grows a bit in the next week..
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well as a neutral thought set piece went well, the 8 and 9 did v well but some of englands back play was rubbish both centres were poor and goal kicking aside wilkinson was average, quarters and out for england
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My Ratings
Sheridan 6
Chuter 8
Stevens 6
Shaw 6
Kay 7
Corry 7/8
Worsley 5
Easter 8
Gomarsall 8 Man of Match
Wilko 6
Barkley 6
Tait 5
Sackey 7
Cueto 6
Lewsey 5
Changes for Tonga
Rees in for worsley
Moody to 6 corry in SR for Shaw
Barkley Full Back Hipkiss in CT
lewsey out
No Vickery
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England are still rubbish - beating the worst team in the group in the last 20 mins still doesn't = revival - it's the hope that kills.
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Sackey - at least an 8 - provided the only verve England backs have shown at this World Cup. An Englishman passing out of the tackle!
Did we get better when Peter Richards came on? He and Wilko used to play for same minis team long ago. I'm not sure Gomarsall had that great a game?
Josh Lewsey does not seem to provide any attacking options these days (and I'm a Wasps fan!).
Corry had his best England game that I can remember.
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They won ! but this is still nowhere near a world cup winning team. The second half was terible, as if it was a home team game and not a national side. All the moves were predictable, slow and certainly not inspiring to watch.
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somebody mentioned the name farrell.please don't do it again.
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Was it a good win?
I suppose any win is a good win after the previous performance however why have the alarm bells stopped ringing this was just above poor performance against a team who have lost all of thier matches in this group.
Why have England resorted to such a high percentage kicking game they have gone back years (is it the Rob Andrew influence)i honestly thought we had finished with the kick and hope game years ago but alas its returned and without players like Jason Robinson who runs his heart out and possibly Strettle who wasnt picked(big mistake) who is going to chase? tait is fast enough but not big enough to make the impact, Cueto seems to be in dreamland. Stop the kicking game England Ashton must tell Mr Andrew to bog off.
Think some of the criticism of Wilko a little harsh its his first game of the cup so he is bound to be short of match fitness saying that he didnt do bad for 65% how many points and set ups? as for the ratings well i would put the whole team at 4 or 5 they need to be up to 7 or 8 to beat the Aussies if we get there, good luck boys!
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Well, he may not be the man for the position in the long term but today Andy Gomarshall demonstrated the virtues of accurate, fast link play at scrum half and a shrewd reading of the game, particularly in defense.
Yet despite his efforts, things still don't feel quite right amongst the backs. I just wonder if the alignment is right? Such is the determination to cross the gain line at the very earliest possible point that we seem to have forsaken the deep stagger which gave the outside centre and wings, in particular, that extra bit of room to build up real pace and thus force a potentially deeper breach in more open play.
I understand the reasons why Wilkinson and Barkley (the outstanding player in the miserable performance against the USA) were picked, but the pairing did not work effectively. To have a second kicking from hand option is a valuable insurance, but one which is reduced when both kick from choice off the left foot.
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I think it was a good preformance in parts. We should the ability to keep the call alive for once. Olly Barkly seems like the wrong choice, he doesnt really provide another kicking option, as like johhny hes left footed. Greenwood was never renowned for the boot, that was tindall with the big boot at 13. No9, finally delivered quick ball, after a good job by the forwards, only for barkly to stutter and loose all the advantage gained from the quick ball. I think Dan Hipkiss is better choice for No12.
As for the worsely did well in parts, but missed a few 1-1's, when considering he was played to stop them, isn't good enough. I can only imagine what it would have been like if Dan Ward-Smith wasn't injured. He proved carry for carry more profitable than anyother forward.
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I think it was a good preformance in parts. We should the ability to keep the call alive for once. Olly Barkly seems like the wrong choice, he doesnt really provide another kicking option, as like johhny hes left footed. Greenwood was never renowned for the boot, that was tindall with the big boot at 13. No9, finally delivered quick ball, after a good job by the forwards, only for barkly to stutter and loose all the advantage gained from the quick ball. I think Dan Hipkiss is better choice for No12.
As for the worsely did well in parts, but missed a few 1-1's, when considering he was played to stop them, isn't good enough. I can only imagine what it would have been like if Dan Ward-Smith wasn't injured. He proved carry for carry more profitable than anyother forward.
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Is see you are censoring critism of the referee. Why is that? The extension of the clock at the end was particularly worth extra marks for Allan Lewis' performance.
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Agree apart from Worsley who is more like a 5. He cannot play open side - he is poor on the floor, has no vision and looks for contact.
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Sheridan - Job done without excelling
Chuter - Much better option
Stevens - Better than Vickery
Shaw - Should have had more caps
Kay - Decent
Corry - Good Game but not good enough at this level
Worsley - Ponderous
Easter - Maybe
Gomarsall - No. 9 for now
Wilko - Missed a few but pressure on and made a 51m kick (thank god Hodgson wasn't on the pitch)
Barkley - a 10 and nothing else
Tait - Still too young and light
Sackey - Good performance but needs to chase the ball more
Cueto - Seemed to be afraid to either tackle or run into space
Lewsey - Verdict out as 15 but needs to be in the side for his defence has saved our blushes numerous times.
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Nice to see so many people understanding the role of the number 8 on this thread. Easter had a very good game - not all positions are about high visibility success.
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Am I the only one who'd prefer to see Barkley and Wilko switch places? Seems to be a reluctance to 'muck around' with Wilkinson, but Barkley can cut it at 12, better than he can at 10.
And no, one win doesn't have any of us thinking we'll win the thing - unlike one or two Irishmen, we entered this competition in a realistic spirit of absolute despair. Anything better than the QFs and we should be organising another open-top bus!!!!
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Anybody remember these names from the olden days? This was the 'England's 2007 XV' published on the Ö÷²¥´óÐã website just after the Final in 2003:
1. Woodman, 2. Thompson, 3. Vickery, 4. Kay, 5. Palmer, 6. Moody, 7. Forrester, 8. Worsley, 9. Wood, 10. Wilkinson, 11. Cohen, 12. Smith, 13. Abbott, 14. Garvey, 15. Lewsey.
What happened to Palmer, Forrester, Wood, Abbott, Garvey and Smith, not to mention Allen, Varndell, Voyce, Simpson-Daniel, Scarbrough, Geraghty or Haskell. They've all been hailed as future England stars yet have disappeared because Andy Robinson never picked a steady team. Players like Allen, Varndell and Tait have been built up only to be discarded after a few matches. Why did nobody ask Vainikolo to play for England, as he's eligible and is already far more prolific wing than Cueto, Robinson or Lewsey. We need to decide on our 2011 core players now and field a consistent team for four years.
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Tait is a bit like Gallagher, the AB FB in the 1987 Cup winning team.
While initially a quick centre, when he came here from England, a Samoan New Zealander Stanley was the preferred "rock" of the back-line. Other quick players like the wing Wright played FB when Stanley was centre.
Players "like Guscott" need a "rock" capable of playing inside centre.
Anyone like Carling around? Is it Noon, is it Abbott, is it Hipkiss, is it Farrell (seems too slow of foot and decision making to me) or is it Allen?
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To get to the final England has to beat Australia and the winner of the Cardiff QF (AB's over Argentina or the AB France winner).
Some thought has to be put into containing Mortlock the worlds best centre, if Australia is to be beaten.
Latham will run off him, if he is allowed to dominate (the Gitteau Larkham inside threat fully occupies the the loose forward defensive screen).
Just dominating possession alone will not suffice.
If Lewsey is the player to stop Mortlock, then this is an option for that game. If Hipkiss can stop Gitteau ...
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A much better performance - they look so much more dangerous when the forwards commit to winning quick ball. I still think that above everything else we still miss an out and out ball winner in first contact - like Richie Mccaw, George Smith, Juan Smith or, dare I say, Neil Back! Am I the only one wondering how the hell that Samoan try was awarded? I watched it back on the repeat show and still can't see it!
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'Will the real England please stand up?!' exclaimed the excited and - like so many English fans - deluded commentators prior to this game. Their bizarre and 'Walter Mitty'-style pronouncements often tell us precisely what it is that is wrong with the English mentality and game, hitting the nail on the head perfectly. The crown is theirs, they are entitled to it: brush away the rest. 'Oh yes they did, that's back on track, contenders once again'. It all came back, with this performance, so they said. Paper over the 26-22 point of the game, when Samoa wearied and ran out of steam. Forget the fact that Samoa seemed unable to win any set-piece ball whatsoever: quite the worst line-out scrum combination seen yet in the whole World Cup, and a shame considering the Pacific Islanders natural propensity for physicality and flair. A shame they can't win a line-out to save their lives.
Aside from that, more of the same. Johnny kicked...and kicked, and kicked. The expansive, running game that enthralls the vast majority of the rugby-watching world, and the verve in which the best sides (i.e. not England) play, was of course abandoned. But it doesn't matter because the parlous throng of an England victory drowns out the sound of the truly great sides waiting over the horizon. Until then however, witness the revitalized delusion. And cringe.
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I guess this was an improvement - we won! But it was still pedestrian, 1 dimensional and confused. There was a lot of aimlessness in the play. But an improvement nonetheless. We have to remember the step down in class of opposition. Would the Boks have spilled so many passes and turned over so many balls in the loose? I think the biggest improvement was the lineout. We were really strong. Wilko also made a massive difference. Having a number 10 who knows what he's doing really helps.
I agree with the ratings though I think we will come unstuck against a better organised side. I thought Sackey was awful in defence - he even looked scared at times. Corry was better and put himself about more so well done. Worseley and Easter were invisible - we can't have a backline of clones; they all do a similar job and so no one does the other jobs we need doing. Chuter was excellent today. Gomersall shows he can play at this level and is a cut above the rest of our number 9s. I thought Barclay was a lost child. He did some of the tackling but was either cut out by Wilko or cut himself out. Not impressed by him. As said, Sackey still sucks for me even with 2 tries. Cueto also wasn't really in the game. Lewsey played well. All the backs are hopeless kickers. What's happening there? Why all the aimless kicking to the middle of the park? I've seen other sides do this too - except the Wallabies and the All Blacks. Have the IRB changed the ball shape or something? Or are the boots different? On boots, why are so many players slipping over all the time? Anyway, a marginally better performance. If we play like that against Australia in the quarters we will be destroyed. Sitting here in Sydney, starved of northern hemisphere rugby since 2003, I'm amazed by some of the comments above saying what an improvement last night's performance was - the best since 2004??? My God, we must have been really dire!
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as usual Martin Corry gets a tough time from some. He gives everything for the cause for Tigers & England. For Tigers he leads best pack in premiership, so surprised so many of Leicester's pack have had little or bit parts to play for England. They know each others game inside out & play so well together.
Hipkiss should have been given more of achance too after his performances last season.
As we so obviously lack pace in the backs why, with Strettle out, did we not bring Varndell?
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Come on Corry deserved at least 7.5 Why this bias against Tigers players? Some Tigers players that could & should have been helping England are sat back at Welford road. Tom Varndell and Julian White to name but two Ashton needs to drop Vickery, why is he in the team let alone captain, normally?
Sackey did well & deserved more like 7.5
Tait is doing nothing in 15 a side, deserved 4.
Easter & Shaw I thought were also worthy of 7 each.
Chuter should keep his place, 7.5! Hope lives on.
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Come on Corry deserved at least 7.5 Why this bias against Tigers players? Some Tigers players that could & should have been helping England are sat back at Welford road. Tom Varndell and Julian White to name but two Ashton needs to drop Vickery, why is he in the team let alone captain, normally?
Sackey did well & deserved more like 7.5
Tait is doing nothing in 15 a side, deserved 4.
Easter & Shaw I thought were also worthy of 7 each.
Chuter should keep his place, 7.5! Hope lives on.
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wilko was great - 24 points with the boot and gave scoring passes for three of the four tries. tactical kicking not great but he can rectify that
sacky - great, totally solid in defence scored two tries and gave the scoring pass for another - needs to look for work more though
front five - no problems
back row - selection conundrum now for the tonga game - moody? rees? dayglo? will they now get a look in?
robinson needs to come in for cueto who I am not at all impressed with at this level and havn't been for a long time
confused about tait, I thought he had an non entity of a game - I would still like to see a farrel/tait partnership though, this was my first choice going into the tournament and I think with farrel's distribution and tait's pace this could be the answer - but that would mean dropping barkley? hmmm
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Comments about players not included in the squad (i.e. left behind) are irrelevant at this stage. Ashton has made his choices and must work with the available players. Samoa where not a clinical team but they played with passion and in this world cup we have seen that passion can be an obstacle to even the best sides.
England can take heart from this game and I am sure that in the changing room they are well aware that this was only an improvement and not yet a performance worthy of quarter finalists. The vast majority of comments focus on the back line frailties and this is the real weakness of this England squad. Talented club players have not (yet) evolved into international match winners.
Personally the only change I would make at the moment would be to swap Barclay and Hipkiss. Barclay is a talented player and one with a long England future ahead of him. For the next game we need someone one who can drawer in players on the tackle and possibly release Tait on the kind of run he is reputed to be capable of. As for the scores I didn’t see anything that deserved more than a six, solid play by most players on the park but honestly nothing that special; just capable.
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I agree with much of this. Here is my two penneth:
We have talent, but we have two problems (insurmountable in this world cup)
1. No number 12.
2. One number 7 who is not quite good enough
You cannot play international rugby without a number 7. I think les Bleus and the 'Blacks have the best. I think we must start with Rees every time and hope he grows.
Yesterday:
Lewsey: I am a big fan. But his kicking game was beyond bad. He needs to lean how to kick it off the pitch - can it be that hard?
Sackey & Cueto must be the best options on the wing. Both did well yesterday. I would have loved to see Varndell but alas ...
Please oh please let BA start with Hipkiss. He is far and away the best centre we have. Keep Tait on the bench as utility sub.
It was a great joy to see Wilko kick the penalty from 51m - nice to have him back.
Gomarsall - man of the match.
Tight 5 were good. Surely even BA can see now that Stevens is twice the man Vickery is now.
Corry worked his socks off, but I would have him on the bench. Moody, Rees, Easter is my backrow of choice. I was impressed with Corry chasing down the restarts, but Wilko had to kick it shorter and shorter to give him a chance (poor lamb). Moody is so much quicker. OK he cannot carry as well as Corry, but we have Easter for that. Moody is great in the tackle and very mobile so he gets to the breakdown like a good'un. Corry simply is not quick enough.
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As a neutral (Welshman) I have to say I think you have been a bit harsh on some and a tad generous with others.Cory played well for you and deserves more than six more closer to an eight.Gomarsall was your man of the match it's a pity your not giving half marks as I think he would have been eight and a half.I think Wilkinson was pretty solid but fail to see how he was any better than some of the players you have rated with a six Lewsey, Sackey and Cueto for example.Overall an improvement for you but Samoa are a tough nut to crack these days and will be good preparation for the Tonga game.I have to say I had a chuckle when the draw was made South Africa, Samoa and Tonga are pretty physical teams and the English boys must be feeling pretty bashed up by now.
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As a 'Pom' living in Australia and having watched Eng v Samoa at the dead of last night; I cannot believe how pedestrian England looked compared to the SH teams - all this one off the ruck stuff went out with the Ark down here!
The upside of the game is that the England set piece looked very solid but the whole pack need to be far more dynamic in the loose.
In the backs, I'm afraid that Tait just does not cut it at this level - ran sideways too much and crowded his wingers out of the game plus his defence was just awful - he was stood up by his opposite number 4 times! requiring scrambling cover by others to prevent Samoa from scoring. Get Hipkiss in - at least he looked competent when he came on.
The backs look totally without confident at the moment and the kicking from hand was woeful at times. The long miss pass was used by JW way too often allowing the defence to ignore the inside backs and just slide out wide where England were then isolated in the tackle resulting in slow or turnover ball.
Run straight and hard guys, catch the ball, 'fix' your man, draw him and pass or go for the gap but do it incisively
Go England - I can't take any more abuse from these damn Aussies!
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64 post spot on.
England have just 2 problems - a slow back row and centres who cannot pass accurately in front of the receiver or make space.
I thought Catt was the answer but his passing recently has been poor - he's unfortunately off-form at present. Hipkiss can make a break but he can he pass? For the sake of continuity I would persist with Wilkinson and Barkley, who does seem to be a genuine footballer.
In the backrow, England have to got to increase their speed. Moody, Rees and Easter for me. Corry typifies English stodge - he's a solid club player, who could probably do a job in the second row.
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Another riveting display of english kicking for points. I didn't enjoy losing the final to England four years ago, but no one can deny the English deserved the cup. Four years on and they will sink along side their three point game.
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There is still a mixed amount of views on this Blog - which range from optimism right through to doom merchants.
Post 57 in particular is quite critical, and with some justification it has to be said. But the author suggests that we shouldn't get carried away because it was a poor Samoan team we overcame, pointing to their scrum and lineout as key areas where they failed.
They failed there because of our tight five and good work in the lineout. We challenged because we thought it would work. Against the Boks, we stood back and prepared to defend for when the Boks won the ball. In doing so, the Boks always won the ball. Against Samoa we fought, and it worked.
In all honesty, Samoa broke the line a couple of times, and had only really one period of pressure following another poor kick. We defended well. And Samoa were left to take the 3 points and rely on a strange TMO decision. No try for me.
If we cut out the aimless kicking in favour of a braver game, we would have tonked them even more.
We put 44 points past them, not much less than South Africa. This game needs to be put into context.
Tonga is going to be a very similar proposition, and I am therefore confident. If we play to our actual strengths, we will come through the game. And then it will be Australia - if we progress again against Tonga - Australia will go into the game against us with caution. Thats a step forward.
If play as well against Tonga as we did against Samoa, we will go through. If we revert back to the USA game - we will lose. Then we don't deserve to be in the next round.
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Sorry to be a heretic but Jonny simply does not set the line moving - the English backs were static all match - predictable and slow.
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6/10 for Nick Easter? For me he has been our player of the tournament so far (not saying much I know), and was the only one to run Andy Gomarsall close for man of the match. It looks like he has nailed down the number 8 slot.
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This world cup has shown that the so-called 'lesser' nations can give the big boys a fright. Samoa have some very good players, and England did very well to put that score on them.
Yes it was due to set piece dominance, yes the back row were pathetically slow to the breakdown and with ball in hand, and yes the midfield played like strangers(this is because they are and have never played a match together before).
What England need above everything is consistency in selection and to let the players learn to play together. Rugby is the ultimate team game. No changes for Tonga.
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You missed out an England player. Allow me to grade him for you:
Allan Lewis - Tremendous display for England. Consistently penalised Samoa whilst simultaneously letting England get away with murder at the breakdown. A Man of the Match performance that truly changed the game. 10
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You missed out an England player. Allow me to grade him for you:
Allan Lewis - Tremendous display for England. Consistently penalised Samoa whilst simultaneously letting England get away with murder at the breakdown. A Man of the Match performance that truly changed the game. 10
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Winning was obviously crucial and England at least managed that.
For much of the game though it was an unimpressive performance from a team so obviously lacking in confidence.
Area of particular concern for me were:
1. I dont agree with the positive rating of Joe Worsley. He was out of touch for much of the game. I would certainly start with Lewis Moody who provides far more dynamism and presence. In the spirit of changing a winning team as little as possible, that is the only change I would make.
2. Olly Barkley had a poor game and looked like a fish out of water. He has to provide more.
3. Both props were almost invisible in the loose. Sheridan can be a dynamic ball carrier but we are seeing little of that.
England will need to step up a gear and play a much snappier game if we are to avoid a close nail-biting game with Tonga. It will certainly be a tougher test than the Samoa game.
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How England could win so much ball from set pieces and not be out of sight of Samoa in the 2nd half says it all. Why do we slow the ball down so often? England's worst player was Jonny Wilkinson. His kicking from hand was dismal, giving the Samoans so many opportunities to counter attack. Better opposition would have won comfortably.
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Winning was obviously crucial and England at least managed that.
For much of the game though it was an unimpressive performance from a team so obviously lacking in confidence.
Area of particular concern for me were:
1. I dont agree with the positive rating of Joe Worsley. He was out of touch for much of the game. I would certainly start with Lewis Moody who provides far more dynamism and presence. In the spirit of changing a winning team as little as possible, that is the only change I would make.
2. Olly Barkley had a poor game and looked like a fish out of water. He has to provide more.
3. Both props were almost invisible in the loose. Sheridan can be a dynamic ball carrier but we are seeing little of that.
England will need to step up a gear and play a much snappier game if we are to avoid a close nail-biting game with Tonga. It will certainly be a tougher test than the Samoa game.
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Thanks Ben (74-75) - and how are things at the Andre Watson fan club? I've just spent my saturday afternoon whinging at the ref after my own team (Miller Ö÷²¥´óÐãs League Division 4 East, alias VetsWorld)got their rear ends thoroughly spanked. Fact is, refs' inconsistencies are rarely the turning point. Dodgy decisions go both ways, and you've still got to stick the points away. When England went off the boil they got punished - you suggesting the ref was on a tea break? Now if you want to look for a ref doing us a real favour, check out that 'forward pass' call in the Tonga-South Africa game! Five points to Tonga and I think we really would be booking our fights home...
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Winning was obviously crucial and England at least managed that.
For much of the game though it was an unimpressive performance from a team so obviously lacking in confidence.
Area of particular concern for me were:
1. I dont agree with the positive rating of Joe Worsley. He was out of touch for much of the game. I would certainly start with Lewis Moody who provides far more dynamism and presence. In the spirit of changing a winning team as little as possible, that is the only change I would make.
2. Olly Barkley had a poor game and looked like a fish out of water. He has to provide more.
3. Both props were almost invisible in the loose. Sheridan can be a dynamic ball carrier but we are seeing little of that.
England will need to step up a gear and play a much snappier game if we are to avoid a close nail-biting game with Tonga. It will certainly be a tougher test than the Samoa game.
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Hopefullt this game will put to bed the question marks on whether Jonnie is our number 1 fly half. He put in some huge hits, had a hand in 3 of the tries and brought his usual assuredness to goal kicking (which is now taken for granted). But he also brings confidence and an assuredness to the team in a critical psition that has a settling effect on the players around him. Even though he has been away for so long, he dropped right back in the saddle and immediately looked world-class. The rest of the backline does need more sorting out, but at least we have a 9-10 partnership to buid from now.
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I don't think Olly is a centre. Worth a punt on Farrell?
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Sorry to remind you, Post 45.
Strettle was injured pre W.C!
Amazing that 3 games into the competition BA is still fiddling desperately with possible centre combinations and playing players out of position! New back row every week. Does he dip his hand in a lucky-dip bag!
Backs passing is awful. Any under 12 school's rugby coach could do a LOT better: slow ball, passes behind players, passes too high, no basic moves scissors, dummy scissors loops etc. Have these been banned?!!
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I find the players rating 2 to 3 points above a realsitic value. England were unconvincing, extremly slow to get the ball away from the base of the scrums, rucks and mauls -letting the oppostion gather their defense ready for the unspired attack by the England backs. They look laboured. Sackey is next useless in defence, seems to have no vision to create opportunity and seems to walk around the pitch! England need to up their belief in themselves, remember they are playing for their country and at least play as if they want to defend the RWC of 2003!
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Hey - if those are the English marks out of ten can you go and get your man who did the Irish ones to dock them all a couple notches. England - OK it was against Samoa - ended up with most parts working - maybe not in the centre but as long as they tackle it isn't a match losing area.
Corry's second try he was in position - took the pass one handed - took two fairly hard hits with only a bit of a shudder and scored - what was wrong with that ?
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Positives - we have a hooker and scrum half who look like they can actually play the game. The dallaglio experiment seems to have blown over till 2011
Negatives - our centres look the worst in the tournament (of the majot teams). Sometimes its easy to see if a guy is going to make it. Tait looks like he weighs about 10 stone - he cannot play international centre, or international rugby full stop actually. Hipkiss is good and needs to play. Who to pick for the other centre is tough as there is no-one who's any good. probably have to stick with barclay and hope he improves
Aussies look reasonable though.
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They were rubbish and for once you can't blame Farrell!
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What about trying Robinson at no. 12. He'll give everthing. Might have to put in Farrell at inside centre but it would be lively outside him with cueto, sakey and lewsey.
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Most of the marks for the forwards seem ok, however the amount of ball the backs turned over unnecessarily was a disgrace. No back should have scored more than 5 in my opinion. The issue is we do not cross the gain line with the backs more than 20% of the time and the kicking from hand is the worst of any team in the tournament.
Jonny had a shocker by any standards (poor decision making before and with ball in hand, as well as varied execution) and should have been swapped positionally with Olly Barkley early on. This would have given the backs an opportunity to move before receiving the ball and therefore an opportunity to gain confidence in running at the defence. The aussies show how easy it is by making the first movement towards the opposition line before the ball is received. The other issue is the involvement of forwards in back play - they must get out of the primary ball channels to allow the backs to do their jobs.
Overall we looked like we played with more desire and certainly a physicality that achieved results. Tonga should watch out as I doubt their set pieces will be up to the task as well.
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Better but still not authorative.
The two principle short comings for England seem to be an inability to clear out players in the ruck, they need to be more aggressive to win quicker ball, and the lack of creativity in the centre.
There is a wealth of talent in the back line but getting the right combination is not easy without playing people out of position, with Robinson back from injury what about a back line as follows;
Gomarsall 9 wilkinson 10 Sackey 14 Lewsey 12, Tait 13, Cueto 11, Robinson 15 with Catt as first reserve in centre?
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The usual roller-coaster of blogs, with some, thankfully, taking the middle ground - England were better but still have problems.
This WC is now, maybe always has been, about survival.
As for the backs, someone asked about BA's "random" selections, forgetting that this was the first game with all his backs free from injury and available.
More specifically, Wilki's mixed bag is hardly surprising, a lack of match practice is bound to lead to a few bad decisions and tactical kicks. I, and most bloggers, have no conception of the speed at which the modern international gane is played.
I can feel the daggers approaching, but I feel that another decision-maker would be useful outside him. The F-word. Whatever people say about him, he has a good rugby brain and is solid in defence. I also think he has other good attributes but I'm not going to pour petrol on that particular flame.
Olly was a bit indecisive at 12, partly due to Wilki's rustiness and this didn't help Tait. Also too many harsh words being said about him. I'm neutral on the Tait/Hipkiss front, not seeing any Premiership games, but I think both have talent that will never shine through until we actually get some half-decent ball to them.
People bang on about our current plight at centre, comparing them to centres of the past but forgetting that those centres were used to getting a good platform and an extra yard or two to work with.
Finally, Ben 74/75, take more water with it.
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Goodness me boyo, This is the second reasonably balanced piece from you in a week. And I reckon on the money. Hope your not ill!
Yaki-da.
Mike Towl
Lagos
Portugal
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Post 89: "Jonny had a shocker"???!!!
How many times has he played at this level in the last 4 years? How many injuries has he overcome to get back to this level? How much pressure was there on him? Therefore how confident must he have been?
Yet, how many points did he score? How many tries did he create with passes or boot?
Despite several errors he remained the key playmaker of the game and came through a bad patch to control a win that will have built confidence in the whole team just when we needed it. A shocker?....the boy deserves a medal.
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Agree with many that Easter had a great game - made intelligent and brave runs that panicked and disrupted the Samoan line.
Nice to see Corry being less selfish and showing more variation, although Gomarsall's excellent marshalling of the pack can take a lot of the credit for this.
Wilkinson looked exactly like a great player who was a bit rusty. Started brightly, went off the boil, and then (most importantly) brought it all back together for a strong finish.
Barclay's a tough call - Wilkinson works best with a kicking 12, but his penetration is zero. Maybe give Farrell another go, but teach him that 12 kicks for the percentage, not for glory?
A good professional performance by England, especially as the third quarter was played against 16 and a half. The video ref's decision on the Samoan "try" was appalling
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Lots of interesting comments as ever.
Thought the Wilko bashing is horrendously unfair- by his own world leading standards he didn't have a great game, but by everyone elses standards he was good. Put points on under pressure when we needed it, marshalled the backs, and was always working on the front foot. Did no one else notice his chip for Sackey to score- it's teh first time i've seen anyone in an england jersey make a strategic decision in 4 years!
forwards were in general good- though corry had a good game, although not a blinder- would have like to see Sheridan et al a bit more. Backs aer a worry- Robinson at 15 would be nice, barclay at 12 is not so good- he's clearly lost playing out of position (like wilko barclay really is a position specialist). Sackey has disappointed in defence so far and hasn't excelled in attack.
Well done Gommarsall though- keep it up!
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Ben Morgan (74,75)- Welsh by any chance? Get a life!
It wasn't a great performance by the troops but we've all seen worse (last 2 weeks!)so things are on the up. We're not going to win it so lets build for 6 nations get some consistency in selection and play - get rid of dead wood, pick same 15 where poss for friday, beat Tonga, shut the whingeing Aussies up with at least a fighting show and let us look forward to shutting the celts up next year.
elapsis resurgum (i think!)
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Accurate ratings i think, i aggree with most bar a few.
i think wilkinson deserves alot more for his efforts on saturday. he coped with pressure and stayed calm with ball in hand. He kicked 7 out of 10 and got a full game under his belt. he is doing england a real favour and is under immense amounts of pressure. man of the match in my eyes and a great performance. he contributed to all of englands points and his desision making under pressure from big samoan backrow was very good and he may be the only hope for england in coming games.
I noticed a vast imporvement in forward aggression. i thought sheriden, kay and corry worked espesially hard and did alot of the useen hard work.
I also think sackey desrves more because he was also one of englands bravest attackers especially when he did alesana tualagi round the outside. Also i thought he did ok in defence with a nice covering tackle on henry tualagi, however he needs to work on defensive allignment.
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i am pleading ignorance here 'cos though i played rugby many moons ago, i cannot see why the tongan try is causing so much controversy - why wasn't it a try? not arguing, just want to know EXACTLY what was wrong with it? Please, no smug remarks from celts/antipodeans, you're all getting very boring!
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98 - to score a try an attacking player has to "ground the ball" in the in-goal area.
Firstly, ignore the ill-informed TV commentators wittering on about "no downward pressure is required". They are not giving the whole picture. Read the perfectly well-written Law 22 or the game.
There are two ways to ground the ball - if you are holding the ball in your hands or arms, then the ball merely has to touch the ground. In this case, downward pressure is not required. However, the Samoan player at no point was holding the ball.
The second way to ground the ball is to press down on it with any part of the body from the waist to the neck inclusive. Downward pressure IS required in this case. Watching the frame-by-frame replay, as the video ref did several times, there are three important frames. The first was with the ball clearly touching the player's upper-arm/chest, but clear of the ground. The next frame shows the ball touching the ground having ricocheted from the player's body - in other words there is no clear downward pressure (and certainly no holding) at the point the ball touches the ground. The third frame shows the ball having rebounded from the ground and travelling away from the player. So it is very hard to see how the video referee could award a try, because the frame that showed the ball touching the ground also shows the ball noticably in a position further away from the players body than in the previous frame, which makes it impossible for the ball to be touching both the player and the ground at the same time.
A final piece of evidence was the immediate reaction of the Samoan player - he wasn't very convinced that he'd scored until his team convinced him to put on a show.
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Banksy, re your suggestion @ No 90 – ‘'what about a back line as follows:
Gomarsall 9 wilkinson 10 Sackey 14 Lewsey 12, Tait 13, Cueto 11, Robinson 15''
Really glad someone else is prepared to promote Josh Lewsey for 12/13..... I take things a step further based on last Saturday and a view on the approach to Tonga and beyond and proffer another permutation: Gomershall 9; Wilkinson 10; Cueto 11; Lewsey 12; Robinson 13; Sackey 14; Farrell 15.
Anyone agree that there’s an exciting feeling in the air after Saturday? Not going to dwell on the 1001 reasons influencing our lead in to the RWC. Key thing for me is that I perceive change is in the air…. there is evidence of much needed confidence, passion and attacking spirit coming to the fore. The England ship is steadying at last.
For me, we now need to remove mystifying recent defensive game plan shackles completely and attack Tonga with confidence, flair and power. Let's take the game to Tonga from the KO.... so for me this means that we continue to challenge up front and build on control and reduce to ZERO ad hoc 30-40m kicks down the middle of the park (albeit much better Vs Samoa than Boks) and KEEP the ball in hand. JW to keep the tactical 'floaters'/ grubbers' in his quiver for opportunities as per Samoa.
On selection, at centre I believe Josh L & Jason R would provide key experience, dynamism & maturity to add another dimension to England. At full back I propose Andy Farrell – equipped with ball handling skills, power and qualities aplenty. Why?
I feel that AF’s performance and contribution will really gel given the likes of Nos 10; 12 & 13 mentioned above to team with. He was propelled into a lead field kicking lead role that he clearly wasn’t ready for. But with JW back and a step change in approach, the collective Eng team is now demonstrating far greater assuredness and I believe it to be smart to ensure that AF's skills form part of this overall strategy.
I see Andy Farrell firstly being physically very solid and assured under the high ball. But most importantly, given England's '8' providing the platform & options for AG to trigger quick fire attacking moves, I believe that AF would be a very powerful asset coming into the line at full tilt which we haven’t seen yet.
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the ammount of people pointing out that England wouldnt win without Wilkinsons boot... correct me if im wrong... a penalty is still worth 3 and so is a drop goal... if you dont wanna lose this way... dont give away penalties... a win is a win you still have to get more points... at the end of the day you have to do the business 3 times with a kicker to compare to a converted try... so arnt we doing double the work??? we won, now lets build on it... also worth noting yes, Tonga did push a very nice south african 2nd/3rd team close SA only started to look a half decent side after montgomerie came in so id hardly read any into it... take the game on its own basis, not what another team did...
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ROFL!!! How so many of you England fans have spent the last year slating Farrell. Now reading this thread, you are keen to play him. Make your minds up. ha ha.
And to this end, Aaron's point above ties in - Andy Farrell's penalty kicking and drop goal skills are well proven.
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Why do we always try to kick our players ,ok thay are not playing well but some of the comments about Jonny are not good, that he can only kick points ,who was it that was involved in all the trys with passes and the boot. thay are not the best in the world but thay are ours lets try to get a settled team and back them
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I wonder if the bloggers above watched the same game I did?? I'd strip at least a couple of points off all the players; I am, however, using New Zealand as a bench mark. Which is exactly what the current world champions should be measured against.
Recycled ball is just too slow! Imagination in the running game is practically non-existent. Kicking game is diabolical. Set pieces don't look as solid as they have in the past.
Overall, I'd say the final scoreline was very flattering in England's favour.
4 out of 10.
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Im not an expert on Rugby but know a bit and watch England consistently. I think Saturdays performance was ok - compared to teams like New Zealand, Australia, France and South Africa I think our available 'talent' is pretty low (perhaps due to coaching or the club rugby in England) but you cant fault those players for their effort and I fancy us to beat Tonga convincingly.
One thing I have read is the continual stick Joe Worsley gets. Ok he did give a couple of penalties away but in and around the ruck he works so hard and is so disciplined and solid in defence. He may not be dynamic and I am actually a fac of Lewis Moody but I always think what we gain in attacking flair with Moody we lose in defence from Worsley. I thought Saturday against Samoa he really put his body on his line and his tackle count must have been impressive. Also thought Corry had his best game for a long time and his second try was really well taken.
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Here's to facing Oz in the quarters. That is Lynagh's nightmare apparently
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