Wales player ratings v Fiji (331)
- 29 Sep 07, 05:56 PM
London - Fiji pulled off one of the biggest shocks in World Cup history as they outmuscled and outplayed Wales in Nantes.
Here is my verdict on the performance of the Welsh players - let us know how you thought they played.
Gareth Thomas - There was little he could do to halt the waves of early Fiji attacks but after a couple of bad errors he scored a good try and then made a stunning tackle on Seremaia Bai late on, albeit in vain. 6
Mark Jones - Took his try sharply but struggled to get involved in the game until near the end when he finally came looking for work. 5
Tom Shanklin - Had his hands full with the magnificent Rabeni and although his fine pass put Shane Williams in the clear he was otherwise very quiet. 5
James Hook - A mixed bag for the youngster who struggled physically. He lost his cool badly before half-time with several untypical errors and, although he showed some fine touches as Wales fought back, he was running on empty at the end and he also missed important kicks. 4
Shane Williams - His superb solo try sparked Wales' ultimately fruitless comeback. Before that score he had run his little legs off and had never stopped trying to spark Wales into life. 6
Stephen Jones - He made a fine early break but looked as shell shocked as the rest when Fiji cut loose. Was defensively suspect, kicking away possession when Wales had an overlap was criminal, as was missing one very simple penalty kick. 4
Dwayne Peel - Under pressure going into the game and had a very ropy first half with a couple of shocking passes. A couple of second-half breaks showed his talent but not a surprise when he went off. 4
Gethin Jenkins - The one area Wales had a clear advantage was in the front row and Jenkins scrummaged superbly when given the chance and did his shift defensively. 6
Matthew Rees - The hooker was part of a good front row effort and hit his jumpers in the line-out but he looked outgunned around the park. 5
Chris Horsman - Scrummaged powerfully - see the marvellous pushover try - and that is a tight-head鈥檚 primary job, plus he even made the odd tackle. 6
Alun Wyn Jones - Once halted in his tracks by Rabeni but pushed his weight in scrum and did his best to halt the Fijian power runners. 5
Ian Evans - Gave away a silly penalty offside in midfield from a Little kick but belied his lack of game time by playing his part in the scrum and line-outs. He will have happier times with Wales. 5
Colin Charvis - He tackled his heart out and was one of the very few who could live with the Fijians鈥 physicality, but it was not enough. 6
Martyn Williams - There is no doubt about his footballing ability but his lack of power compared to the muscular Fijian back row was frequently exposed and ultimately his interception try was in vain. When he was turned over in the last play of the match it was painfully emblematic. 5
Alix Popham - His try cancelled out giving away an earlier penalty and, along with Charvis, he led the defence for Wales, rattling Fiji sufficiently to be the victim of some cynical late hits. 6
Replacements:
Mike Phillips - Gave Wales more presence behind the scrum but could do little to reverse the flow of the game. 6
Michael Owen, Duncan Jones and Ian Gough made little impression after coming on with 15 minutes to play. 5
James Standley is a 主播大秀 Sport journalist based in London.
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You have over rated everyone apart from Charvis and Gareth Thomas.
No passion, no desire... the Fijians deserved the win.
We were bullied of the park by the much bigger and faster team.
Northern Hemisphere sides.. look and learn.
Bye bye Gareth Jenkins.
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Let us face the facts. The squad is simply not good enough. They must stop believing that they are world beaters and should take a pay cut or lose their jobs like the rest of us have to. They have been in the comfort zone for far too long and should come into the real world.
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Fantastic summation there James. Where would we be without the 主播大秀?
Love and kisses from all at ScrumV
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How about a rating for the coach ;)
Gareth Jenkins = 1
Have to say well done Fiji, deserved to win but Wales oh my god it has to be one of the biggest shockers in recent World Cup history... They played right into the Fijians hands completely clueless.... Have to seriously question the whole tactical strategy going into the game.
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Congrats Fiji--the better and more talented team certainly won.
As for Wales, I think you need to accept that you are now very much a tier 2/3 rugby nation and not simply blame the coach. Be realistic.
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Bit optimistic don't you think?
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Wheres the Fijian player ratings?
To the winner go the column inches!
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We have to be careful about saying how awful Wales played, and that they made a lot of mistakes. Give credit where it is due - Fiji at times were fantastic. Some of their running with the ball and passing was at times breathtaking, and I don't know many teams who would have coped with their opening salvo! What does puzzle me is the comparitive demise of Peel and Hook, who are both a shadow of their former selves. Well done Fiji - back top the drawing board Wales.
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Talent (or a lack of it in this case) cannot replace sheer determination to win. Wales did not have that passion and could not taste victory...sorry boys, you were soundly thrashed.
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The ratings are somewhat low, yes the Welsh were beaten and some mistakes were made but Fiji capitalised on just about every one. The Welsh team are not disgraced, Fiji are not mugs and when they develop even more structure they will be regular world beaters. The world game is changing (for the better) and the 'minnows' are growing teeth. The 1/4 finals are not a right for the home nations and the players should not be villified for not succeeding. I am English and not at all revelling in every Welshman's distress tonight, but for the grace of god England would also be on the way home this weekend. Time to move on but don't cut out too much of what is essentially still a top team in world rugby.
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To all concerned at the union,
Please look no further for the reasons for this defeat than at the coaches.
Our set piece and defense have not been up to standards for some time, and are showing no sign of improvement.
The coaching staff (Forwards and Defence) are novices to coaching and therin lies the problem.
Lastly our head coach shows no grasp of tactics and contributed totally to todays defeat. Who in thier right mind would adopt such a carefree approach against such dangerous runners.
Gareth Jenkins is an honest man, but short of the tactical nous for our talented team to advance. His own words judge me on the World Cup surely will now condemn him to the ranks of the unemployed.
We cannot waste any more time and the whole coaching staff should be removed before they leave todays stadium.
I have never been moved before to suggest anything so radical, but i cannot see any improvements under his stewardship.
If he does not resign you as custodians of the game should take the nescessary steps to remove him from office.
Yours
Mark Davidson (St Albans RFC)
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If Shane Williams hadn't showboated over his try and put the ball under the posts then Wales could have won with a late penalty kick. We never made those stupid mistakes when I was at school!
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This game was about Fiji. Lets face it, they played a superior brand of rugby. When the dust settles, this performance should light the way for how rugby should be played. The "established nations" are too obsessed with winning at all costs.
This was non-stop handling, support, recycling. People expect Northern Hemisphere terms to put together 4 or 5 phases of possession. These guys were putting together 14 and 15 - CONSISTENTLY.
Who wins the World Cup is not important. The way Fiji showed how the game should be played is. Wales did their best but were simply outclassed.
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Harsh. Charvis only a 6? come on now. The only person in the welsh setup to deserve less than 5 is Gareth Jenkins, and he deserves minus 5. Million that is.
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Andrew Scobie wrote:
As for Wales, I think you need to accept that you are now very much a tier 2/3 rugby nation and not simply blame the coach. Be realistic.
---------------
Thing is, that same group of players won the grand slam two and a half years ago. Players' quality doesn't degenerate to that degree in that length of time, so either all the 6N are 2/3 tier rugby nations (which is arguable, given the way they're playing this World Cup), or something is wrong with Wales' current operation. Occam's Razor points at the coach, in this case.
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Were Wales missing their home dvantage. Would it have been better for them to play all their games in France from the start. Did playing at home back fire in the end and ruin their mind set. In the first half they looked bewildered asleep. It almost looked like what are we doing here this is not home.
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What was with all the switching of goal kickers throughout the game? Jones, Hook, Jones, Hook - choose one and stick to him. I mean think of the scenario... Wales get a penalty, Jones & Hook are both thinking - whos taking this one? me? or him? - i mean this indecision must have some effect on the focus required to kick these pressure kicks?
In my opinion, either play Jones or Hook not both.
We lost this game on penalty/conversion kicks. Fiji's kicker looked composed and focused on every kick - well played Fiji, deserved to win.
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Rabeni, what a game, destructive running and i think we have another chiropractor anyone one runs into him remembers it!!!
man of the match? any others candidates you can think of
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Can anyone explain how seemingly every time at the breakdown there were 5 or 6 Fijians and 3 or 4 Welsh ?
That's where we lost it.
Doesn't take a coach on a good salary to work that out does it ?
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Just not big enough, stong enough or clever enough. Interesting to see headline on 主播大秀 Rugby is Dai Watkins talking to Larkham about coming to play for the Dragons. Another step backwards for Welsh Rugby and more cash being wasted.
Get shot of the club ownwers and get total control for the WRU. Sack the current WRU executive and start again with some new proven commercial execs: Appoint a new coaching team from the southern hemisphere.
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Congratulations Fiji.
Wales lost it in the opening 10 mins when they had 2 opportunities to score tries and they missed a penalty. Instead of being ahead convincingly, they suddenly found themsevlves having to chase the game. Fantastic comeback from Wales in the second half but if you fail in your kicks you deserve what you get. I don't believe you can play Jones and Hook in the team, both had poor games as did Peel.
I afraid Wales need to look for a new coach and start planning for the next World Cup
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Wales had almost total domination in the tight. Why didn't they put the ball into the corners and trundle it over?
They showed themselves the way - once - but didn't do it again!
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Where are all the Welsh rugby supporters now who clambered for gareth jenkins to be made Welsh coach. He should never have had the job, he was useless when he went with the Lions and yet we still went for him.
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Remember the hue and cry and all the bleating when Gareth Jenkins did not get the coaches job the previous time he applied for it - maybe now the WRU's decision stands tall.
There is a lot of confusion over his selection policies, the tactics employed by the team he puts out on the field as well as his man management - the extra time given to Steven Jones to recover from his injury whilst banishing Gavin Henson back to the Ospreys being a prime example.
We will probably see the solidarity of the players - as we did over the departure of Mike Ruddock, yet this will not disguise the true feelings throughout the squad.
Alfie says that they will be travelling home "proud Welshmen", yet the pride in just pulling on the Welsh jersy does not seem to be there any more.
Maybe the introduction of substitutes for "token" honours has devalued the winning of an international cap.
I remember following the Welsh team of the 70's - real heroes whom the fans held in awe. And remember being lucky enough to meet many of the stars of that era at the time. Mountains of men, who would turn everyones' heads when they walked into a room. Men with a passion for their chosen sport, men with huge hearts who would have lay down and died for Wales on the rugby field.
Has that breed gone forever?
Too often these days I see players not commiting to the tackle wholeheartedly, or hacking at a loose ball on the floor instead of going down on it.
Why is this?
This is not true of every player, but alas from the die hard Welsh supporters point of view you will see examples of this in every game.
I feel, that Gareth Jenkins and his backroom staff have now passed their "sell by date", as he wished to be judged on the team's World Cup performances. So who next?
If you are going to replace Jenkins with another Welshman, then I feel there are not many candidates who would want to take on the mantle whilst being greeted and embraced by the Welsh public.
Phil Davies? Still young in the job I feel.
Lyn Jones? Now we are getting closer.
Personally, I wonder whether too many bridges have been burnt to approach Mr. Ruddock again, (the outsider for the job when he actually landed it). Apart from capturing the Grand Slam he instilled a pride in wearing the jersey that has not often been seen since he left the post.
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Another patronising blog.
Cliches are us.dot.com
Presumably you are paid to write this stuff so why use all those old cliches?
And? where are the ratings for the Fijians?
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"The way Fiji showed how the game should be played is."
High tackle after high tackle!!! Living offside, a number of late tackles (many high) and lets not forget the knee to Stephen Jones' chest. Yeah, well done Fiji, you really showed us how to play the game.
The referees in this world cup have been way too lenient in their rulings against the south sea island teams.
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The notion that Wales is a 'tier 2/3' rugby nation is complete rubbish. Granted there has been a considerable drop of standards between two different coaching regimes, but Wales did win the Grand Slam a little over 2 years ago, against two of the finest teams in world rugby.
What happened today was very sad but to be expected. The curent players were selected from reputation and past form with no other players to challenge them. This is the eternal problem for Wales; lack of strength in depth and a domestic game that is relying increasingly on foriegn imports, much like the English premiership.
Jenkins must go as he's managed to destroy any kind of game Wales had, and the old heads need to retire and the grass-roots scouting to begin once more so that the Gibbs and Quinnells of tomorrow can be found again
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"Wales v Fiji player ratings". Where's the Fiji ratings? Misleading blog title to say the least.
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Am I the only one was disgusted, not enthralled by Fiji? I lost count of the incidents that amounted to pure thuggery. They late tackled Popham and Peel out of the game. Wales are the only northern hemisphere side who can, on their day, play entertaining rugby. Unfortunately it's never for a whole game, and our lack of size has been shown up badly. Time for one of the Quinnell boys to have a son or two isn't it?!
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There is no excuse for Wales' performance today we did not have the cutting edge that was needed to win with the game, a new strategy and new blood is needed and also a new coach, I was all for Gareth Jenkins taking over the Welsh squad before RAZOR but now I believe I was wrong,in my opinion the only person to take Wales forward now is JONATHON DAVIES.
I await all the criticism.
Glenn from Treorchy
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it is disappointing that 2 hours after the game that Gareth Jenkins has not resigned. And when he goes he needs to taken the entire welsh set up with him. They have forgotten what the game is about - they think it is all about power and money and not winning rugby matches. A day of shame.
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players must take some blame but the blame really lays with the coach. gareth jenkins should resign asp. how can someone who picks a lock who has ben out for 9 months over a lock who is playing the rugby of his carrer deserves to keep his job i just dont know and the same goes for picking a out of form scrum half over a big powerful scrum half have the cheek to expect to keep his job wru should offer ruddock what ever he wants to come home
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It's painful that though inept at a lot of areas of the game we did come back and were ahead, we just can't keep hold of possession, even if playing badly. We went back in our shell trying to control the game and Fiji took over showing us exactly how to control possession and make ground. All we tried to do was that ridiculous holding of the ball at the back of the ruck which stops the game and allows defences to reorganise. It's really embarrasing that even through all the bulging biceps and tight shirts and 'best conditioning ever' we were bullied by Fiji. I'm only online so I don't have to suffer alone.
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I've lived abroad now for 12 years, when I left Gareth Jenkins and the Llanelli crowd were very average considering they had some of the best talent in Wales and the money from the WRU to keep them afloat. With all those resources Jenkins was AVERAGE at club level. Why on earth did the WRU committe think he was going to be better at International level. Were they thinking that if your from Llanelli then you must be good !!!!!!!!!
Let's be honest we needed coaches from outside of Wales to bring some fresh ideas in, from memory even Ruddock had some experience coaching overseas. There is no doubt in my mind he benefited from the foundation set by the NZ/AUS team.
Wales has got to realize that the people who run the union at player level were average players themselves.
In business there would have been mass changes years ago, thinking outside the "box" even would have come into it.
My message to the WRU stop taking the easy option and employing people that you are comfortable with and who won't rock the boat. The boat has sank it needs rebuilding with timber from overseas !!!!!!!!
A disappointed exile
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Sad way for Gareth Thomas, Martyn Williams and Gareth Thomas to finish their international career but the better side won
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What a shambles. What has happended to the 200 5 Grand Slam winners? Fiji deserved to win. We lack real ball carriers in the back row and a cutting edge in midfield. The Jones Hook combination doesn't work, the new coach has to stick one of them at 10. As an Osperys fan I can't wait to have all the boys back for the Magners League. Off to drown me sorrows.
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A feature of this world cup campaign for Wales have been the woeful starts followed by a rallying 2nd period (on the whole).
If the present management team cannot motivate the players and instruct them on strategy in the build up to the games then I'm afraid they must be collectively culled! The only concern i have with this approach is that apart from Phil Davies (and he himself is not sure if he's ready?)there is no other Welsh candidate for the chalice. Any know what Graham Henry or Scott Johnson are doing at the moment?
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The plain truth is we didn't deserve to progress through to the QFs.
I don't agree with an earlier comment about a lack of talent. We do have the players to make an impact on any side in the world.
We showed in the Grand Slam season what we can do, but we didn't progress from there for all kinds of reasons - some of which, I guess, we'll never get to fully understand (Ruddock's departure; Alfie's Svrum V appearance et al).
The nucleus of that side is still there and are still capable of playing that Grand Slam style of rugby.
We've seen flashes of it at times throughout the RWC, but we needed 80 minutes in each and every game. What truly mystifies me is why we've only started playing rugby in the second half of all the matches.
In each match we've looked stiffled, unsure, hesitant and frankly scared at times during the first half. In the second half there is an almost total reversal and we look sharp, quick in thought and movement and capable of scoring tries almost at will.
We've not sustained that for 80 mins. Will Greenwood suggested something suitably stirring was said at half-time today - why wait until half-time?!?!?!!!
We have the players, we have the ability, we haven't performed to the level we set ourselves in the Grand Slam season.
Why?
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Haven't stopped laughing yet! Maybe this will stop 'Alfie' from his ridiculous try celebrations - looking pretty silly now isn't it.
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Wales redeemed themsleves off and on but overall Fiji outclassed them and well done to them!
Now the Welsh will have to redirect their Rugby passion, and support anyone who plays against England... LOL
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Well, a tragic result for Welsh Rugby but a great result for International Rugby; more teams are competitive in this world cup than ever before (well apart from against the Kiwis ...).
I wonder how the Italians are going to go against Scotland?
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If Wales had put their tries in closer to the post when they had the chance Jones or Hook may of got a their conversion. Wales seem to believe they could just always score more tries, no more what. The only times apart from the interception was when Fiji was down to 14 men.
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The result was not a surprise.
Is the ratings scale from 0 to 10 or from 4 to 6?
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Fiji are the deserved winners. Let's congratulate them. They never know when to stop. I was watching the game with the great Barry John who was in awe that the Fijians did not simply play the ball dead in the last few seconds but instead tried to run it.
Well done Fiji.
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Lets face it, it was the result we all feared. Fiji were dynamic, physically stronger and with a clear game plan! Wales were terrible and thats being polite. A lot of experienced players let us down today and so did Gareth Jenkins and his management team. Its going to take a very special 'new' coach to turn the tide on where we are in World rygby terms at the moment. The worrying thing is that we might be in the 2nd tier World Cup next time with Georgia and Japan. By the way well done Fiji you deserved the win.
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Tiger_mad (post 18) Leicester fan by any chance? I agree, Rabeni would be my man of the match.
Mike (post 25) title duly amended.
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We have overrated everyone, we were simply not good enough, Jones (10) and Hook (12) simply do not work together, we need to start picking younger players, who have the HWYL to win, maybe a new managerial set up as well?
Fiji wantd to prove a point today, and the did. Wales just went through the motions.
I do not look forward to the SIX NATIONS.
Glenn Treorchy
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Lets not get to tied up with player ratings. My biggest disbelief of the day is that it is now 2 hours since Wales has suffered one of its worst losses ever and Gareth Jenkins has yet to resign. Well done Jenkins on single handedly ruining Welsh rugby!
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I have a feeling that if a man in a red shirt was running with a rugby ball, Colin Charvis would follow him into hell. For me, he was easily the best supporting forward on the Welsh team.
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Bit harsh I feel, Wales played some damn fine rugby to pull that back and at 25 - 23 there was little to chose. Wales' only negative to me was playing to the Fuji strengths open play, ball in hand.
It's unfortunate there has to be any loser, that was one of the best Rugby matches I have seen in over 30 years watching the game, thank you both sides.
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Firstly well done Fiji. Congratulations and good luck in the quarters.
Wales soundly thrashed?? We scored 5 tries to four. Poor kicks at goal cost us the match. But more importantly poor tactics played into the Fijians hands. We know of the South sea Islanders physicality, it has always been thus. However you combat it with the correct tactics.
Gareth Jenkins asked to be judged on the world cup. A coach can't make the players great but he can help them gel and perform above the sum of their parts. Jenkins' Welsh teams are performing below the sum of their parts. That's his responsibilty. Also he has consistently picked Peel, who is a talented player, but is clearly out of form and has been for a while. He needed to be dropped for his own good. Poor decisions, poor performances. A very sad way to say goodbye to Alfie. He deserved better.
Again Congrats to Fiji, For the neutral it is a fantastic result for the World Cup. Poor consolation for me.
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I must be in a minority of one - but how anyone can cite Colin Charvis as Wales top performer is beyond me. I know we were bad but not that bad!
The problem is that once again the "name" players in the team eg Thomas, Peel, Jones , Charvis failed to show up and Gareth Jenkins ( coach) is simply second rate!
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If we'd kicked our penalties and conversions we would have ultimately won by a handful of points and everyone would have sportingly praised plucky Fiji to the skies.
What this game demonstrated is the raw power of the southern hemisphere teams compared to the 主播大秀 Nations - sadly it begs the question as to how long the likes of Shane Williams can still continue to thrive in this game that seems to require players to be a minimum of 16 stone and well over six feet in height - it will start to get very boring!
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Why didn't williams run under the posts then Walves would have been able to kick the last penelty!!!!
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England beat tonga by playing a very structured game and keeping hold of the ball. When they didnt they got hurt.
From what I saw when Wales kept things tight they did well, but then when the ball got out there were turnovers and fiji had the ball and space to use it. Their gameplan just wasnt good enough.
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Fiji played well and the right team won!
As a nation we need to stop finding excuses! We didnt preform at all well the tactics were wrong to many missed tackles playing both hook and jones at 10 and 12 is not the answer play 1 or the other not both! Wales never looked like the team they are. End of the day they are professionals and shouldn't make that many mistakes. If i did that many mistakes in my job i would be down the job centre. Fact is Wales were poor and made to look like week rugby nation!
I do think it about time for Gareth Jenkins to take his leave! He should of gone after the 6 nations it was the english game that saved him! That game is probley the cause for this!
We didn't preform well in the 6 nations and won 1 game against a second rate english team (all tho it hurts to say)got complacent. We needed to take a look at welsh rugby and start again. Offer Steve Hansen what he wants. Get him back to shape us up and play the rugby we used to play!
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WALES STILL DID WELL TO LOSE BY ONLY 4 POINTS, JUST REMEMBER THAT!
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I completely agree with Phil Bennets comments about GJ. Tactically Wales have been abysmal. To me it seems Wales are playing to a fixed game plan which will only ever change at half time. We need to look at what is right in front of us and be able to adapt quickly. True, we have come up with the right ideas in the second halfs but sometimes (today) it is just too late.
Oh, and the scores. Melon deserved more.
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We all thought in the pub when Martyn Williams scored that we were home and dry - it appears that the players thought the same - Fiji were awesome and were physically to strong. Ratings just about right although I would have subbed Peel at half time - he had a shocker, and why does Shanklin play with blinkers, Hook is to lightweight to play centre and thanks for the last ditch tackle Gareth but goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
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I dont think any blame can be made to the referree - it is after all the losing side who complain about the ref . Wales campaign started badly when they thought there 3rd team could beat England they have been on the back foot every since. Also this may be the reality check that they need for far too long they have been living in the glory days of the 70's. it is time to forget that era all together things have moved on vastly since then - All the Grand slam of 2005 was just a blip on the landscape due to France and Ireland not having a very good season and playing England at home.
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Can't believe I'm saying this but I am watching the X-Factor to feel better.
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charvis - 6
usually instrumental in any Wales game, non-existant in this one! we lost, say no more...
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Wales cannot make decisions on or off the field! The coaching staff played Ian Evans instead of Gough in order to challenge the Fiji line out. How many of their lines out did he challenge or win? - none in my reckoning. His tackling also was nowhere as fierce as Goughy who really hits his opponent hard.
Again Wales were dominant in the scrum so, with a penalty near the Fiji line Alfie opts for a kick at goal instead - a wasted opportunity.
Stephen Jones obviously off form with his kicking so he takes most of the kicks and misses 3 conversions.
In total, bad decisions cost us 10 points which could have won us the match!
Having said all that the ref's decisions left a lot to be desired - I lost count of the number of Fijian high tackles which weren't penalised not counting the Fijian kick which should have resulted in a red card, which could have changed the whole outcome of the match
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Its the same every match. A world beating performance by Wales for 20 mins but the rest of the match was Fiji's. Why can't we play that well for a full game???? Its not a lack of talent, so it has to be poor tactics / coaching? So sad to see world class potential unfulfilled.
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Wales didnt play brilliant today, but as for Fiji, how many high tackles can 1 player commit and not get carded? How many (very) late tackels were carried out without the referee so much as batt an eyelid? And dont get started on the offsides!! there is no excuse for wales' playing form today, they wernt up to the mark, but Fiji were foul players. The referees need to stop being so soft on unfair play. The referee needs to be questioned about all the offences listed above!
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I'm fed up waiting for a another Golden Era to come along.
Lets give rugby league a chance in Wales - lets get behind the Celtic Crusaders. At least they delivered the goods this season!
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let's give fiji some credit for a excellent display which would of accounted for many so called "big teams". but when will referees start penalising these "plucky" south sea islanders for their blatantly illegal tackling? if wales had committed half of the fouls fiji had they would of been down to 13 men for most of the game. they get away with it time and time again because it's "part of their game". but there's no getting away from the appalling tactics wales set out with. they tried to play loose and wide against a sevens specialist team when a tight forward display with a strong set piece, witness pophams fist half try, would have been the ticket to the quarter finals. we played ino their hands. thankyou mr. jenkins and good night.
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It's about time our players went to the gym because we are losing the physical battle in almost every position.Technically we have some gifted players but its an athletes game just look at the all blacks there forwards play like backs its like 15 men playing like sevens and this is how we need to improve.Best luck Fiji they scored the tries, we didn't simple as that.
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Can someone please tell me what on earth has happened to Northern Hemisphere rugby?
They have not learned, that modern rugby is won in open spaces, quick off loads and big men running hard and fast.
The new rules will expose the lack of coaching quality which encourages individual players to express themselves without fear of having this natural instinct coached out of them.
The Southern Hemisphere minnows have really made you guys sit up and take notice.
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Wow!
Brilliant performance by the Fijians. They absolutely hammered the Welsh newspapers and proved them oh so wrong! What a slap in the face for those who belittled them prior to the math.
Just goes to show what a small island nation, with a fraction of financial resources can achieve with sheer determination.
Yes, they lack discipline, yes they were at times, rought; but Wales weren't angels on the field either. The yellow card was purely (and quite unfairly) issued for self defense. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is a fool.
I wish Fiji all the best and they now have 1 extra fan who will cheer for them when they play against South Africa.
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There are many excuses the welsh can use. the truth of it is they re not a team, 15 players playing for the sake of it with no enthusiasm pride or honour.
Look at argentina, tonga, samoa, italy, they are not the best players in the world but they are proving to be the best teams, with the best collective spiret and passion.
I am english it goes for england as well.
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let's face it the players have been toghether that tad to long. wales have to admit they need more depth and strength in the squad. get rid of jenkins and bring in someone with experiencee. fiji were clearly more dynamic and broke the gain line every time
shane williams needs to be put on the bench to give him a kick up the backside.
just a suggestion but phillips for inside centre?
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I think Gareth Thomas summed it up when we criticise the boys, "if you want to criticise get on the park and see if you can do it". Let's face it, these boys played their hearts out but, as in 1991 and 1999 with Samoa, we are not street smart and showed far too much respect to teams we should blow away.
Any coach will tell you that you support a team that has lost and we should thank the boys for their efforts, they are feeling far worse than us tonight!!!
Good effort boys but I think we had more in us, scarily I think we could have troubled the South Africans.
Come on Wales Six Nations winners 2007/08.
Cymru am byth.
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am just really hurt.heart broken..was shocked.was expevting wales to face s.africa.wales played with no heart.i agree with peoples comments wales have to stop dreaming and start playing real rugby.where is the passion.i know it was a hard game for them but we should have concentarted on keeping the ball.and defending.hook isnt enough..he wont win a world cup for us yet maybe in a few years..but what can i say after watching that match and being welsh.am ashamed.and now my non welsh friends moslty english and irsih are giving me stick.just wanna thank the welsh team..broke my heart today
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First of all, well done to the Fantastic Fijians and I wish them the best of against South Africa.
Second, good ratings!
Third, what a shambles. Every eight years an Island team has beaten us.
1991 - Samoa
1999 - Samoa
2007 - Fiji
I'm fed up of it and Gareth Jenkins has to go. I'm not blaming all on him but lets be realistic. We lost 6 times in 2 years with ruddock. i dont even think we've won 6 times in 2 years since jenkins took charge.
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this result just goes to prove 4 things:
1) the coach is clueless with regards to international rugby;
2)Welsh rugby is in a mess and the WRU should be looking at their positions as well as the coaching staff;
3) the home nations are miles behind the modern game - we all need to look at how southern hemisphere sides play the game with pace, power and precision, not sticking it up our jumpers or throwing it about aimlessly; and
4) the world cup is a glorified tri nations, it just gives SA, Aus and NZ a chance to show how far ahead of us they are.
ATB, Fed Up Welshman fuelled by strongbow......
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OK, we got beat, but I'm still wondering how Fiji finished with more than 13 players! A few of our players are going to have sore necks tomorrow, for sure, and ringing ears to boot.
Fiji played much more like we did in 2005 - so why can't we do it anymore? Is it being coached out of us? With the supremacy in the tight, doesn't take Einstein to realise a bit of England style up the jumper to take the sting out of the opposition was in order. AND - take the points when on offer! Fiji did - and won by 4 of the precious things! We scored some fantastic tries, but once Peel went off, the back-line movement evaporated. He didn't have one of his better games, but Philips was worse. And unless Pophame finally succumbed to some of the outrageous 'hits' targeted at him, why the hell was he subbed?
As for Gareth Jenkins - you've been judged. Good bye.
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I have to say, Wales' backs can string together some lovely play and they are a pleasure to watch - proper class team play - that I just don't see from England who pass deep with plenty of sideways movement with very little headway made(and I'm an England fan). However, the time when Wales were able to show their skills was when they were opposite 14 men.
I don't think you can argue the issue against the Southern hemisphere island teams all being 16+ stones being a boring game.
Forwards that look like backs and vice versa creates speed and flexibility.
As the commentators said - this was the best game I have seen in the competition. Edge of the seat stuff.
No point whining about late tackles, heavy body blows, that's for the match officials to police. All the other teams have had to deal with it.
It seems ironic that people are whingeing about the physicality of the game but haven't passed comment about Jones (10) taking out Fiji's Nicky Little, when he was standing with his leg trapped in between the bodies. Jones took him out, cynically, and a key player for Fiji might be out of the tourament. It achieved nothing in the game. A needless piece of poor behaviour. I watched a Samoan pull out of taking Wilkinson's head off for the sake of it - good sport. Jones take note.
Scotland keep it up!
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Look it was a fantastic game. Wales came back strongly when Fiji went a man down. But Fiji made too much ground in the midfield area and turned the ball over too much; they overpowered Wales who also stopped thinking when they got over the try line.
England took the fitness up a notch 4 years ago but the Southern hemisphere nations particularly NZ/SA have moved it on. Wales looked too small. You need to be big fast and skillful and Wales don't have enough of these requirements through the team. Fiji did and they won although they were dirty at times. As an Englishman I wanted to see Wales do well but it is good for World Rugby that Fiji won.
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What a game for the neutrals. welsh fans seem to be a credit to their nation with the way the are dealing with what must be a massive dissapointment.
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Anybody fancy some qfs tickets. Booked a private jet to go to marsaille to watch Wales and now get no return from my money ! Will the WRU refund me ? Where did it go all wrong ? After 10 mins I felt good after our big pack dominated. But lets look at the bigger picture.
1. Ruddock is doing quite well in the Guiness Rugby League without his new NZ stars.
2. Henson is enjoying being at home.
3. Gareth Thomas has 100 caps but a big black mark against his name as the captain that failed to reach the QFs.
4. Gareth Jenkins will resign !
So surely we'll still have the same problem at the end. A board that don't know how to run a company. Don't blaim the players, coach blaim the WRU !!!!
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A useful Wales build up game for 2011.
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We have to sort out the 10-12 pastnership if we ever want to win important matches..
Fiji deserved it and looked dangerous everytime they got the ball..
If they sort out their set pieces, they could trouble SA!
We need something new!
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"Fiji the way the game should be played." "Fiji the way the world should be."Lets give kudos where kudos are due.You must remember that when Fiji gets on the field they put heart and soul combined with there passion and flare for the game.Fijians play the game in the true sprit of the game and when the game is over they celebrate and move on to the next kill.There is a sayiny that Fijians have "mai na mai"."Come and keep coming."Some of you sound like sour grapes, complaining about the refrees and calling Fijians thugs ,the truth is we are worriers and we go on the field to win every battle fair and square and that was the end result.the Southern Hemisphere rules. Please wake up and smell the coffee that FIJI,SAMOA, and TONGA stand as tall as all of the teams in the Northern Hemisphere.we pacific islanders are proud of our heritage and toughness.The pacific gave you Lima the "chiropractor"
for the last 5 world cups,we now bring you Rabeni "The bone crasher"
BEWARE THE PACIFIC PARTY HAS JUST BEGAN". VINAKA FIJI,MALO SAMOA,MALOLELE TONGA
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Thank you Wales for giving Fiji the opportunity to reach the 1/4s after 20 years. Perhaps, next will be yours.
Congatulations to the Fijians. C'mmon you can be proud of your Lord Jesus and your country. We are with you all along....Fiji...Fiji..Fiji!!
Do it again against the Boks!
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i give shane williams 2, great try but his arrogant 'show boating' when scoring, fired up fiji and we got our just desserts.
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We have to sort out the 10-12 pastnership if we ever want to win important matches..
Fiji deserved it and looked dangerous everytime they got the ball..
If they sort out their set pieces, they could trouble SA!
We need something new!
Shane Williams - the best
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In the first 2 games Wales only turned up for the second half and against Oz - well, Oz took their foot off the pedal. In this game they just plain forgot to turn up. Absolutely no pride. Whatever happened to Welsh pride? I still have it and at 62 years of age would have committed myself on the field far more than these overpaid plokers on the pitch and I would have done it for free and for my country. It really is Gareth Thomas's problem. He got rid of Ruddock - a very good coach and instead we got second best and a captain who resembles Delaglio... run 3 paces and fall over to present the ball - one of the Mogodon Men. Get rid of the lot of them and start again is my advice and after playing this superb game for more than 45 years (gave up 7 years ago) I DO know what I am talking about.
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So Wales are out of the 2007 rugby world cup, yet again we have under-achieved.
Ok it was a great game to watch, but we never looked like we were going to get a place in the last eight.
Where do we go now? sack the coach, drop some of the players.
I think we should look at the people who are running the WRU, until we get the right people running the game in Wales we are not going to get a world class team.
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popham and garvis were the only ones hitting fiji nearly hard enough and popham should get a higher rating for all the punishment he took for doing what the rest of the team should have been doing.
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Bye bye and good riddence to Gareth Jenkins.Please come back Mike Ruddock all is forgiven.you are the only coach which turned our nearly men in to Winners
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good boys may god bles u all.
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please god do the decent thing & go -- the whole coching team needs to go. WRU bowed to pressure & sacked Graham HENRY as he was 'no good' -- who is he with now -- oh yes New Zealand -- their no hopers aren't they????
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What a game. The Welsh rankings are what they are. They did not win. Where are the Fiji rankings?
Fiji now represents all the Pacific Island teams for the rest of the cup.
Go Fiji.
Imagine what the caliber of play would be if the Pacific Islands had the budgets of the big six in the north and big three in the south.
It is a fact that island players give up a huge amount putting their professional career at risk for a pittance in pay, playing for their countries.
Imagine The All Blacks and Australia without the Samoan, Tongan and Fijian players. If the big bucks were there and the same recognition that playing for the All Blacks holds, how good would the island teams be?
Once again, great game Fiji, you deserve it.
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"Any coach will tell you to support a team that has lost"
Yeah that is what a losing coach would say ha ha .....Do you think the Aussie Public would get behind their team if teh lose? Do you think teh NZ public would do the same ha ha Never.
"Judge me on the World Cup" Well you aren't good enough to coach Wales.
Phil Bennett said " I certainly don't want to see someone coming in from New Zealand and spending two or three years here on 拢400,000 a year" Well there is no one else to step up to the Plate. If you want to be the best you have to get the best people for the job. And if its from NZ fine if its from Australia Fine. Their players are coming over here to get between 拢250-拢374,000 a year so get some of their coaches
Who may times have we heard " we played some real rugby in the 2nd half and really pushed them.....Hmmmm yeh cool now if you hadn't given away some many points in the first half ?!?!?!
And to answer the Question...What going on with NH rugby.....Would it have anything to do with the 1 or 2 (or 6-7) SH players in your teams?
I read that the NZ prop has said that playing in the NH will extend his playing career buy 4-5 yrs. Does that mean its not as hard as the SH style/Comp?
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The Wales Fiji game was an even contest in terms of territory and possession. Despite the great running rugby we witnessed, the game was decided by the team with the best goal kicker. Jones' flawed kicking techique was exposed. Hooke missed from in front of the posts. Fiji missed virtually nothing. You can analyse various other aspects of the game as much as you like but the bottom line is that Wales would have won by about 10 points with a steady goal kicker.
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Be you Welsh or English to many of our top sides have a large number of overseas players great for Club Rugby but not for our National sides and Rugby isn't alone here.
Hard luck Wales but it could have been us just as easily.
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Bye Bye MR Jenkins and take the squad with you what a shambles >Bring back Mike Ruddock he is the only Coach which gave the boys the X factor and a will to Win and get shot of the nearly men Image
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I resign!
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Great game of rugby! Well done Fiji!
Yet again we have the northern hemisphere team beaten by a bigger and quicker southern hemisphere one. Its not just a problem for Wales but for all the 6 nations teams. We all need to look at a better 'club' structure or we will never compete with the big boys let alone the supposed minnows.
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In response to posting 37. Graham Henry and Scott Johnson are doing a lot better than us. I was completely dispondent about the score to day. Wales deserved what they got. Time for change now. out with the old and get some new blood into the side ready for 2011 and reinstate mr Ruddock.He knew what he was doing. He's a very nice man honest my son and myself had our photo taken with him a year ago at my sons school.WRU please bring him back because i too was one of the guilty party who asked for Gippo to be assigned the head coaching job i feel a complete prate now.
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The tactics that Wales adopted typified the poor leadership we have at the moment. Fiji played 20 minutes of both halves as a typical 7 a side game, Wales found themselves drawn into it.
Whilst it was obvious that the one area we dominated was up front we decided ( coaches decided) take them on in a running game, haven't they noticed that Fiji are a wonderful 7's team?
Take a look at the English coaching squad, they have scoured the world finding experts in all areas, all Wales did was scoure Llanelli.
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Congratulations to Fiji! They outplayed Wales and the final score shouldn't have been that close.
The real reason Wales lost, however, is not; reasonably good players playing without intelligence or apparently without a game plan; poor coaching from coaches who are not up to it; nor the fact that Fiji were more committed on the day! No, the real reason we lost is playing in 'poncey' white socks. Bring back red socks and we'll be on the winning trail!
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I wish I was neutral watching this game, as I am sure it was absolutely fantastic. Unfortunately I am a passionate Welsh supporter, who possibly has little idea about the intricacies of Rugby, but even I was screaming at the TV screen pleading with Wales to kick those early penalties and I was fuming when Martyn Williams touched down about 15 yards outside the posts. My observations were belittled at the time by my fellow spectators, but it proved true. Missing the conversion of Martyn Williams try consequently meant that the last minute penalty had to be run as opposed to a more probable penalty kick. Both the early non kicking of penalties and that amateur mistake in not going under the post by Martyn Williams cost Wales the win and I for one am gutted. And why oh why oh why did the kickers keep alternating. I 100% hate criticising my beloved Wales but there were school boy errors on the pitch today which should have no place in a professional sport. I am so gutted.
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A good game for the neutrals but disappointed that we lacked on-pitch thinking and a 'streetwise' approach. If dominant at set pieces, make the most of it, rather than throwing the ball around in front of a side who love to do just that. Take 3 points every time, touch down as near to the posts as you can and have a capt who constantly harasses the ref about high and late/borderline tackles (in the style of Johnson in Eng's past).
Whilst I question many aspects of the coaching approach, I do not believe a witch hunt of GJ will help matters. We have to realise that Wales have not declined massively, we were never in the top 4 of world rugby (not in the last 20yrs at least). Our Grand Slam is treated as an all-conquering spell but we scraped past Eng & Fra and hardly went on to conquer the southern hemisphere and domiinate world rugby did we? We love the game in Wales, but talk of Hwyl and Henson will not bring a world cup home. We have to fundamentally address how we play the game at club and regional level and build strength in depth rather than looking for the next messiah.
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There we go. There was nothing unexpected in this game other than the fact that Fiji played from the 1st to the 80th minute. It's probably best that Wales lose in this kind of close match, rather than them getting to a quarter final where they were to be slaughtered by South Africa.
Fiji were very physical often overstepping the mark, but the stark reality is Wales weren't physical enough. The players can go strutting around in tight tops, posing for nobody in particular, but they looked like boys against the robust Fijians., too afraid to front up to them.
We don't even have a world class goalkicker to get us out of trouble. Stephen Jones struggles from anywhere outside the 22 and Hook isn't consistent. Gavin Henson doesn't kick does he?
Hook might be raved about for his ability to make a break every six months and his timing of the pass but really he isn't a fraction of the player that the third choice fly half of New Zealand is.
Anyway at least Gareth Jenkins and his "processes to be successful and win games" are going. Aren't they?
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Some of you are very harsh. Wales fought back with real bravery and flair. It was a thrill to watch, and only two teams can do that. Shane's try will live forever,a nd Martryn Williams and Popham played like lions agaisnt a great back row ANF Little. It takes two to tango, and this was a fine contest. The best team one and I'm sorry for Walrs, but they went out with real honour.
Yours an Irishman, who nly hopesz he will have as much to be proud of as the Welsh, come tommorrow!
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Wales have never looked good in this cup along with all the Northern hemisphere teams. Wales were poor thanks to awesome Fiji rugby. Look learn this is how we play in the Southern hemisphere! Fiji has shown that excluding smaller sides from the cup is ludicrous. U Welsh should start acknoweldging that u were simply beaten by a better side and that it really isnt a major WC upset shock win for Fiji. They were always gonna win it. Well done Fiji and I'll be gettin into that kava for u guys!!
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Maybe the WRU might consider "The Special One", Jose Mourhino as their next coach. Pity he is a soccer coach but maybe he would turn their fortune around as he did for Chelsea. LOL. but for now its party time here in Fiji!
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Shocked and appalled right now but not entirely surprised as we have been threatening to throw it all away in every match of this tournament so far. You cannot succeed at international level by only playing well for the second half (or part thereof!) - in every interview with Jenkins or with the players following all of the games they have accepted this (though apparently not enough to change it...)
I agree that referees should come down harder on illegal tackling. While it is not an excuse for losing today the reality is that we would have playing against a maximum of 13 men for most of the game.
Hook and Jones should not be playing together. Both can be great fly halves (not that you would believe it on today's performance) but we need a proper centre - one that can tackle and has the strength to break them that would have made all the difference today.
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Maybe the WRU might consider "The Special One", Jose Mourhino as their next coach. Pity he is a soccer coach but maybe he would turn their fortune around as he did for Chelsea. LOL. but for now its party time here in Fiji!
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Far too much blame is being laid at G Jenkins' door. Yes, Wales have looked two dimensional, but that doesn't really explain why they fail to turn up for 2/3 of most matches. In a way i'm glad wales have lost; in England's case their 'success' in reaching the quarter finals will paper over the serious cracks in their national setup.
We have no rights to complain: we are a rugby-obsessed nation which time and again are failing to create teams to compete at the highest level. Fiji has a tiny population, a severe lack of finance, yet has generated more players of serious international class within my short lifetime than wales has. We are failing our youngsters by hyping the few. One poster mentioned James Hook as a player who isn't performing to previous standrards. For goodness sake, he's only been playing regional rugby for a year..
One can only hope that a radical rethink of the regional system and please, a good coach. is a rebuilding of bridges in ruddock's direction too much to ask?
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Get rid of all the morons at the millenium statium and the clowns on the field today and start again. These overpaid idiots have embarrassed the nation since they sacked Ruddock and dropped Cockbain and Henson. played 20 won 6
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It must be hard being Welsh. But even harder being part of the Welsh rugby set up!
Since Ruddock left the Welsh fans and media have never got off the backs of the rugby team. There has been so little support of the team, its pathetic.
I almost get the impression that media and some fans couldn't wait for the team to get beat so they could go on the rampage!
Some of the comments that have been posted after the defeat is bordering on hatred for the team.
The main reason for the defeat today was that Fiji were awesome. Wales have loved throwing the ball around, but this time it didn't pay off. Well done Fiji indeed.
The coach Jenkins never stood a chance. Poor bloke. I assume now he will be driven out of the game and perhaps Wales if you read some posts! But that will be good for him.
Well done again to Fiji. I will just ssit back and watch Welsh rugby continue to rip itself apart.
Oh well.
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GO GO GO FIJI
YOU LOVE YA RUGBY
GO GO GO FIJI
WE'RE ALL WELSH TEACH ME
FIJI FIJI FIJI
NORTH LOOK SOUTH
SEA SEE FIJI
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Physically the Welsh are to small for international rugby. Playing a school boy size winger like Shane Williams is laughable at this level. Nice try and effort but outclassed and he is one of the strongest players
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well done fiji! wales! what a humiliation ,we where totally overwhelmed in the first half (again),and failed to capitalise on the resurgence in the second half!
gareth jenkins cannot possibly remain ,he is dammed from his own mouth eg. "judge me on the world cup"? "we must learn lessons"(when)? "we will improve going forward" (once again when)??
we did not even learn from mistakes today ie; continually using the long kick-off ,and missing touch kicks ,therefore inviting fiji to run back at us which they did ,obviously believing all their prayers had been answered!!
this is the saddest day in welsh rugby for many a decade,
rickwill of carmarthen
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Hats off to Fiji, totally deserved the win, especially with their team, support and turn-over play. Totally out played Wales with their heart and conviction, you could easily see they wanted it more than us from the outset.
I really can't put my finger on what is currently wrong with the current squad and to be honest I wouldn't know where to start. We are very passionate about our nations most supported sport and we have 3 million great coaches but in reality 98% don't have a bloody clue about man management and how to get the best out of a team of professional sports men, so lets leave this to the guys who are paid handsomely to do the job. I am the worse Welsh fan when we lose but I don't look for blame and knee jerk reaction. However I don't believe the current managment team can take us any further, they have had their chance!
Another excuse we seem to be using on a match-by-match basis in this world cup is "we're a small nation and don't have the strength and deepth to compete with the Southern Hempishere - what a load of b0**0%k!. This world cup has proved how far the previous whipping boys, amateur sides such as Tonga, Samoa and Fiji have developed in the last 10 years. The current squad has had it too easy for the past 2 years, just because we we're fortunate to win the Grandslam they seem to think they can use this as an excuse. I would stick with 75% of the current squad but they need a good kick up the backside. I would also introduce a scheme where they only get paid for matches won + bonus payments, for those matches they lose this should be feed back into the regions and district leagues for the clubs to develop the talent required for the future and not to pay stupid sums of money to oversea players who are coming to the end of their rugby career. The justification they say for these type of players being introduced are to attract crowds - at the end of the day we all know how passionate we are and we don't require these scenrios to turn up and watch our teams play a competitive game of rugby.
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Why on earth would Ruddock want to come back ?? The job is a complete Poisoned Chalice.
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It must be hard being Welsh. But even harder being part of the Welsh rugby set up!
Since Ruddock left the Welsh fans and media have never got off the backs of the rugby team. There has been so little support of the team, its pathetic.
I almost get the impression that media and some fans couldn't wait for the team to get beat so they could go on the rampage!
Some of the comments that have been posted after the defeat is bordering on hatred for the team.
The main reason for the defeat today was that Fiji were awesome. Wales have loved throwing the ball around, but this time it didn't pay off. Well done Fiji indeed.
The coach Jenkins never stood a chance. Poor bloke. I assume now he will be driven out of the game and perhaps Wales if you read some posts! But that will be good for him.
Well done again to Fiji. I will just ssit back and watch Welsh rugby continue to rip itself apart.
Oh well.
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Oh Fiji you beaut! We're still celebrating in Fiji! Fiji went into the game more hungry for the ball and at the end it paid off! Now, wasn't that a forward pass that led to a Welsh try when Fiji were down to 14 men? Oh Nicky you so fine, you so fine you blow my mind! I hope you recover for the game against SA... Otherwise bring on Isa Nacewa! And yes, Fiji I love you; full speed! Go nuts, Go nuts, Go nuts!
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well done fiji! wales! what a humiliation ,we where totally overwhelmed in the first half (again),and failed to capitalise on the resurgence in the second half!
gareth jenkins cannot possibly remain ,he is dammed from his own mouth eg. "judge me on the world cup"? "we must learn lessons"(when)? "we will improve going forward" (once again when)??
we did not even learn from mistakes today ie; continually using the long kick-off ,and missing touch kicks ,therefore inviting fiji to run back at us which they did ,obviously believing all their prayers had been answered!!
this is the saddest day in welsh rugby for many a decade,
rickwill of carmarthen
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Feel completely, completely gutted. Empty. What a great game though. Too many errors on our behalf - why sack the coach though Fair enough - I seriously think it was just one of those things. Give the turk some slack. Well done Fiji, all the way from Dolgellau....
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Why on earth would Ruddock want to come back ?? The job is a complete Poisoned Chalice.
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Sacking Gareth Jenkins would be a waste of the experience he has now gained.
Wales and Fiji put on a tremendous display of exciting rugby and Wales came within inches [several times] of winning by a reasonable margin.
Stop whingeing and get behind the team.
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How did that happen ? One man in a welsh jersey earns more than the whole Fiji team put together, sack them all and it might help ! How can a tiny island nation of just under a million beat Wales, how because wales are woefull under Jenkins he has to go, along with the rest of them. Im just glad i left to live in in New Zealand 7 years ago where i can at least pretend to support a decent rugby team.
Would the last person to leave Wales please turn out the lights... Im of for a cry now.
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We had a great coach with vision this squad decided they were better than their coach. The WRU were weak and Ruddock was forced to resign. It seems to em he stood up the these so called professionals and paid the price. How long can we be expected to put up with empty promises. We lost the game in the first 15 mins through bad decision making 3 tries and missed penalties would have put Wales out of sight.
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Well, I thought Wales played quite well overall and were lacking mainly in the kicking - that lost them the game.
However, having watched the England game the night before and hearing the usual call for Tonga under the 'anyone but England' stuck record, I can't help but smile and acknowledge the karma!!
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Fiji did not exactly play an awesome game.The Wales played BAD and with badluck and the referee was lenient.Well one must remember Fiji also suffered at the hands of the match referee in 1999 world cup. Remember, Paddy O'Brien! Any it's all over now.Congratulation Fiji!! MY COUNTRY. Vinaka.
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Well, I thought Wales played quite well overall and were lacking mainly in the kicking - that lost them the game.
However, having watched the England game the night before and hearing the usual call for Tonga under the 'anyone but England' stuck record, I can't help but smile and acknowledge the karma!!
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Well, I've never read so much negativity in all my born days.
What you have witnessed today was a really exceptional game, one of the best ever.
Michael Lynagh capped it all in his commentary by saying it was the best he had ever witnessed, period.
Our boys played their heart's out today and not let's forget that. The Fijian's did as well.Their display of 'seven a side' in the last few minutes of the game was exceptional. As for sacking the coach and certain players, well I think you are all wrong. Considering the performance of the other 'home' teams, France included, I think we have a squad capable of many things including many future Grand Slams. The youngsters in our team today, James Hook included, will help to build for the future. We can't expect it all to happen in 2 years after all. We have a system in place that will build for the future.
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I started supporting Wales in 1959 at the age of 7 when I began playing rugby. I stopped in 2005 when we got rid of a coach who had got us our first Grand Slam for 25 years and I, and all the other supporters, were not considered important enough for anyone to explain to us what was going on.
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People complaining about Gareth's coaching and questioning the 'tactical strategy going into the game'??? Do you really know what you're talking about?
I saw one of the best games in my life today. I saw 30 men, fit and skilled men. I saw a game of rugby as it should be. I'm gutted we came out with fewer points than Fiji, but it doesn't make us loosers in my eyes!
Leave Jenkins alone - don't let the press lead you like lambs into pushing him out. We need stability and if he has the confidence of the team, he should stay.
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what can i say please please to all loyal supporters. stop buying rugby tickets to watch a team that is just not worth the money the wru are ripping the guts out of welsh rugby supporters who spend their hard earned cash to be let down time and time again by gareth jenkins and the rest of the coaching team mostly pickering.
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We have a wonderful Welsh squad but an underperforming Welsh team. There is a failure to place the right players in the right positions.
The main problem today was the one the Fijians actually announced in advance 鈥 our weakness at 10 and 12, in playing Jones and Hook together int hese positions. The three-quarters are not functioning correctly. This failure to put the right people in the right places is a coaching failure.
Then, as everyone has noticed, we are not performing in the first half and then have to catch up 鈥 or not.
That is the fault of the coach and the captain.
In fact, we do not have to do much to get all this right, and get back to what we were doing in 2005.
Get Ryan Jones fit鈥 The pack is mix and match and pretty good all the way through, starting and bench. Popham and Wiliams are sensational. Charvis is still a giant, but the second row were a bit lost today.
SO鈥 , get the links between pack and backs right.
What to do? We desperately need a specialist No. 12. Probably drop Stephen Jones and, horrible thought, Dwayne Peel; put Hook at 10, Henson at 12 with Shanklin; keep Mark Jones and Shane Williams on the wings; and Gareth Thomas at full back.
It is a question of balance, of slight adjustments, but the mix of power and skill has gone wrong, as has the knowledge of how to play the first twenty minutes of a game. Grand Slam in 2008? Not impossible by any means.
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Congratulations to Fuji on a well deserved win, I am not at all suprised by their victory as they would have done their homework on Wales and would have targetted this game.
Their homework would have been made easier by looking at tapes of Llanelli play over the last few years and the last games Wales have played. Gareth Jenkins' strategies are stagnated and cumbersome There seems to be a plan A but nothing else. Probably the reason why most Scarlets fans were glad to see the introduction of Phil Davies as coach.
Maybe we should invite the Fuji coaching staff over to Wales and ask them how to play the game. As their team performs with passion and desire and makes rugby interesting and pleasurable to watch.
Well Done Fuji, I'm off down the shops to buy your contries rugby top and some Kava.
Good luck against South Africa.
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The Welsh players were acting as though they were celebrities and not professionals as they are expected to be. Gareth Thomas is one of 'the' reasons why Welsh Rugby have plummited from the dizzy heights of 2005 Grand Slam Champions they once were. The players are still living on their name rather than show 100% commitment, concentration and passion that is needed and expected. I rate Steven Jones, yet if we took our kicks we would have won the game and this is not the first time I have said this about a Wales game. Nicky Little showed that goal kicking is the fine line between succeeding and crashing out of world cups. obviously credit to Fiji but the difference in calibre, Wales should have, as Will Greenwood stated during the game, got 50 points over on Fiji. Gareth Jenkins did not want people to judge him on his pre-world cup warm up games and rather be judged on the world cup; judging him on the world cup performance Gareth Jenkins should walk away now. I believe The ratings were fairly reasonable except for overating Gareth Thomas and under rating Martin Williams.
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as a Scot i expected Wales to be up for the match all the way through but they seemed to relax a bit on the basis that the game was won. they also tried to play Fiji at what appeared to be a big 7s game which, having watched Island teams is not a very good idea! however, it was a good exiting game (unlike Scotland/Italy which was simply nerve wracking for me)and the best team did win. as my team have done many a time, its is back to the drawing board for Wales. let's see who we pull out of the hat later today but i suspect it might be Argentina.
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well i cannot wait to read the sunday newspapers for sure. 6 wins in 20 games for GJ? two against canada (no shock), one pacific islanders (exhibition team), Japan (expected), england (were in a blip too), and argentina (ok one decent win but still a friendly). he's had a 6 nations and a world cup to prove himself and clearly he's not the man for the job! why has he claimed he wants to continue the job??? to win a friendly game or two? he's wasting his time, he won't win the country back winning a friendly. enough is enough, no more excuses or time is needed...i hope he is gone by the end of the week! i'm all for southern hemisphere coaches coming back, and maybe henson.
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To be entirely mate i think that your ratings are toal utter rubish, the game was a truely great one, though as a welshman, im extreamly dissapointed and pretty gobsmackeed not to get out of the group stages, we were treated to some awsum rugby. The game wasa true classic for any newcomer or neuatral to rugby. Despite this there were a couple of key moments in the game probly the last of these was
*Marten Williams not going Under The Posts At the end for wale's final try ultimatly cost us the game,
Also to have a hat trick of kicks to hit the post kinda indicates that lady luck Just wasnt with us today. But thats the way it goes and its gonna be whipping time for the welsh players from the press i oity them but at the end of the day we didnt qualify in what no matter how you look at it was amoung the easiest groups in the tournematnt, at the biggest stage we fluffed it. :(
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If any one wants cheering up, have a look on ebay. loads of tickets on theer for the Qf match next week, advertised as Wales v South Africa!!!
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Desire.
Fiji wanted it more and we luv them in Fiji. When we are able to hold our scrum we will win these games on a regular basis.
Go you good thin go.
Sorry Wales but you just did not have that same desire for 80 mins of the game. So you did not deserve to win.
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I too am glad Wales lost. No sense in prolonging an awful World Cup campaign. GJ has to go, there's no question. Players are responsible for bad performances too, but we havent looked like a real threat throughout the campaign. It's been a disater for GJ, he thought he had the tools for the job, but even scarlet supporters will tell you that he had taken them as far as he could and should have been replaced let alone promoted to the national team. No hope of bringing back Ruddock, he would simply tell the WRU where to go!!
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"The only times apart from the interception was when Fiji was down to 14 men." - I just love proving people wrong. The Wales tries times were recorded as 34, 45, 48, 51 and 73. Yes, that does indeed make 3 of the 5 tries against a 15 man Fiji. This corresponds with the statistic that the sin-binning took place at 40 minutes. So, Rossy, I suggest you check the stats on www.rugbyworldcup.com before foolishly getting it wrong. Damn my pedantic nature...always correcting.
Too bad I couldn't correct Gareth Jenkins in his selection for today. All the same, Fiji played amazing today. Fully deserved their win. They were very physical and apart from select Welsh players, always had the upper hand in this area. In the loose, Fiji consistently broke the gain line with ball in hand which was extremely impressive to watch. But when you look at the stats;
- Wales scored more tries;
- Wales didn't lose a set-piece;
- Wales had better territory and an even share of possession.
- Fiji gave away MORE penalties;
- Wales spent more time in Fiji's 22 than Fiji did in Wales';
- Wales didn't have a sin-binning;
- Wales only made 3 handling errors to Fiji's 7.
So, I repeat "When you look at the stats", How the hell have Wales lost this match? There's a number of reasons. S Jones and Hook simply didn't function, and both of them bottled it on vital kicks. Tactically, Wales played into Fiji's strengths by not keeping it tight where we were clearly better than Fiji. Slinging it wide only created space for Fiji when they eventually would turn the ball over (5 times in total). And lastly, passion. Fiji had passion flowing out of every fibre in their bodies, and it was not invisible to the eye. Either Wales passion was invisible, or it wasn't there. I couldn't see it, all I could see was fear. Wales were afraid; Jenkins had probably told them that they should just go out there and play their game and quality will tell. Well quality did tell, and it wasn't Wales showing it. The Welsh players thought they had a divine right to win the match, that they would eventually just turn it around and crush Fiji. The Welsh players were scared stiff that it might not happen. When Wales took the lead, it was like they were relieved, like as if they thought it was over. Well it wasn't, and full respect to Fiji, they played right until the end. Most teams would've crumbled after a last 70+ minute try. Not Fiji. Good luck against South Africa. I'm going to enjoy having no distractions for my first week of lectures in University (maybe the only good thing that Gareth Jenkins has achieved in his farcical reign).
Massive post, I apologise. Can't talk to my English flatmates about this though. Needed it off the ol' chest.
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Wales played good game but Fiji was better jst like last test match they played where Fiji was hosted in a very cold cond in Wales...This was Fijis day..go Fiji go
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D'ont blame the players they are obviouslsly devistated. Under Gareth Jenkins they have been shackled to a
game plan that as seen them transformed from Grand Slam winners to also ran's.
Yes judge him on this World Cup preformance. He must take full responsibility.
His score out of 10,a very poor 1
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I dont particularly enjoy any match of rugby where wales gets thrashed by a 'would be' rugby side. the sad fact is that as rugby gets more popular wales will fade.. we've lost our chance once to often..
as for the team - shame on them all.. never knew that we were short of testies before in wales..
they all deserve a good slap. as for the coach - makes clive woodward seem clever!
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Anyone else recognise similarities between this South Sea Island nightmare and that vs Somoa in RWC99 - the manner of defeat was spookily similar so any talk of learning lessons doesn't ignite hope in my book - over the past 25 years Wales has stubbornly shown itself incapable of learning anything from humbling defeats or of organising a professional sport. On top of that the WRU ("Worst Run Union") contrived to sack the only successful coach we've had in this otherwise ignominious era (there's player power for you Alfie!).
And now... Yep, GJ is off again, not apologising to the poor, long suffering Welsh fans for his team's abject, headless-chickens performance, but promising to "understand (to be fair he has scaled back from 'learn') lessons". And this while having the gall to say he wants to stay on!
4 clear reasons he shouldn't:
1) He's had the 2005 Grand Slam group as the basis of his squad - a squad talented enough to have reached a RWC QF at least (e.g. the 1991 squad that went out after losing pool matches to Aus & W Somoa wasn't a patch on this one).
2) While GJ's overall record stinks - 6 from 20 is abyssmal - it's the blowing of so many advantages at this RWC that is so unforgiveable. Our pool was no "Group of Death" - even Eng have done it tough by comparison to us, and we even had 2 matches at the Millennium! Should we feel embarrassed...? No, humiliated.
3) The WRU allowed GJ to select his support team (unlike Ruddock was allowed, incidentally). Talk about giving a man enough rope. Rowland Phillips - a defence coach...??? Call in Trades Descriptions - even that (unlike the rest of us today) "proud Welshman" Alfie (who, incidentally, played like he was 100 rather than winning his 100th cap)said at the end that our defence wasn't up to standard. Durr, really Alf!?!
4) And finally, I believe in holding a man to his word. GJ asked to be judged at the RWC - and that the minimum goal was a QF place. We've put up with humiliations in Murrayfield, Brisbane and Twickenham for Judgement Day only for it to be the most hounding experience of all...
Go Gareth, go and let Wales, somehow, find the will, skills and foresight to rebuild for RWC 2011 under a new coaching regime with the single clear, minimum goal of a QF place in NZ.
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Have to say as a neutral it was an awesome on the edge of your seat match. Similar to the England-Australia final 2003.
However the M R 6 nations win was a win but not consolidated by Wales after that. The previous 6 nations win over England 3rd team! somehow generated a perception in Wales that Wales are world beaters. Never really understood why beating England seems to get Wales fired up to actually play but unable to take this to other games.
It is time time for Wales to get over this blinkered beating England and everything is ok and start concentrating on sourcing the right WRU executives, coaches and players with a vision to beat any team and have a bit more desire than only getting to the quarters as stated by Mr Jenkins.
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Not sure about the player ratings - perhaps most a bit generous. Cogratulations to both teams for a terrific game, though. Perhaps if the Wales team spent a little less time with arrogant celebrations after scoring & a little more time on the basics they might get improved results.
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As an England fan, am so sad that Wales lost today, and so pleased that Scotland scraped through. After all, you guys always support us so much, and helpfully remind us not to be so arrogant when we say that, while we realise we aren't actually very good, we might just scrape a win over Australia if they play badly and we have luck, conditions etc go in our favour...but we'll still probably lose.
Oh dear, sorry, this is probably a thread I shouldn't be commenting on as it's about Wales, the 主播大秀 is England-centric and everyone is biased in favour of Engl....zzzzz....oh sorry, just nodded off.
Right, sarcasm over - thought Wales looked good in patches and probably didn't have a lot going for them in terms of conditions, decisions etc and on another day could have won. Just like England could have lost yesterday - but should we as northern hemisphere teams not be a bit worried about the balance of the game being so heavily weighted in favour of club as opposed to country? Shouldn't we but also be pleased that so-called 'weaker' nations really can take on the more established nations and have a decent shot at winning - isn't that good for the health of the game?
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well well is over at last.fiji well done they were the better team today be far.skill passion and hart.three things wales never had.we are well over payed and over rated as a team.
i just can't unterstand the game plan at all here.i am a rugby coach in calgary canada.and just spent four monthes in nz on a course.how can the coaching team we had go into a game with no idea whats so ever.why wait for them to come to you before the tackle.why not the inside pass to a ball carrier.this proplem has been there for a bloody long time.i am sorry for this but also very glad .lets start again from level one basics and see were it will take us
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Popham - give him a medal! OR 2.
Outstanding, in my opinion - played with real passion and fire.......... after those very bad hits( typical oz ref).
This man is a damn hero !
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well well is over at last.fiji well done they were the better team today be far.skill passion and hart.three things wales never had.we are well over payed and over rated as a team.
i just can't unterstand the game plan at all here.i am a rugby coach in calgary canada.and just spent four monthes in nz on a course.how can the coaching team we had go into a game with no idea whats so ever.why wait for them to come to you before the tackle.why not the inside pass to a ball carrier.this proplem has been there for a bloody long time.i am sorry for this but also very glad .lets start again from level one basics and see were it will take us
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as always - blame the coach.
i am not saying Gareth Jenkins is the best coach in the world etc, but every time its the coachs fault apparently.
the players are the ones who play the game. they are very responsible also. wales show glimpses of top flight rugby, but theres no credit to the coach when it occurs! of course not! but when something bad happens, bam - we need to point the finger at someone, since we are disappointed fans.
the media reaction and the welsh publics general reaction to welsh rugby is pretty disgusting. stop expecting a win in every match, start backing your boys, and maybe they will have the self belief to improve.
dan jenkins - cymro
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Disappointed to see Wales going home yet again from this tournament. Certain players had a poor game all round, the captaincy, coaching and game plan must be questionable? Why the game plan remained the same throughout ceases to amaze me. I aint no rugby boff but I think the coach needs to bow out with salt on his tail. Bring back Ruddock as coach and let him choose someone with a rugby brain as skipper that can see what is right option and what is wrong on the pitch. Congrats Fiji. Welcome home Wales you all deserve a long holiday now in Barry Island.
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As a neutral I thought it was a very entertaining game , far better than the dreadful dour Scotland/ Italy effort.
I cannot understand why Wales played into Fiji's hands by trying to match them in an open running game. That is Fiji's speciality.
Fiji are a rough hard team but anyone who thinks that Wales played like a pack of pristine clean angels was wearing red tinted glasses.
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Fiji were outgunned at the scrum, but their lineouts and rucks/mauls were great. So Wales faced a big fast team that had a fair amount of possession. We all thought Wales were going to shut Fiji out in the set pieces...but that just did not happen.
The Fiji team played with a lot of heart and passion. Wales played well but could not hold out a very determined bunch of players. A fantastic game...a credit to rugby.
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Fiji was simply terrific. Wales underestimated Fiji and paid the price dearly. They could have kicked a few penalties in the opening minutes and opened up the gap but they went for the scrums and lineouts and came out second best. The whole budget for the Fiji team including the coach is about $600,000 Fijian yearly. Just imagine what the Fijians, Samoans and Tongans would do to teams like NZ, Australia, England, and South Africa if they had half the funding these big teams have. NZ would probably lose to Romania if it wasn't for the Tongans, Fijians and Samoans in the All Blacks.
Well done Fiji. You have made us proud.
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As a neutral I thought it was a very entertaining game , far better than the dreadful dour Scotland/ Italy effort.
I cannot understand why Wales played into Fiji's hands by trying to match them in an open running game. That is Fiji's speciality.
Fiji are a rough hard team but anyone who thinks that Wales played like a pack of pristine clean angels was wearing red tinted glasses.
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No surprise. I am a Welsh expat in HK and couldn't face being dissapointed 'live' so went to bed instead.
The writing was on the wall from the very first game with Canada, actually, Wales have not 'performed' since Ruddock and Griffiths left; Our loss, Worcester's gain.
I hope the WRU has the guts to make the changes necessary, and look in the mirror as well.
Hope the Welsh supporters are able to sell those very expensive QF tickets.
The rebuilding must start now for the next World Cup, it will be a painful few seasons. At least RWC2011 will be in my time zone!
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I am an English expat in Hong Kong at the HKFC and tonight was brilliant. I reckon Hong Kong could of beaten Wales. If England had lost to Tonga the Welsh would of celebrated. WELL DONE FIJI, I AM HAVING A BEER IN YOUR HONOUR! ALl the welshies have given me enough stick this World Cup. Face it you are not New Zealand (despite how you market yourselfs) and England are better than you! BRILLIANT FIJI!
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I am left wondering what the object of the game of rugby is? SP teams play it like it is some form of tribal battle with the main objective to intimidate opponents.The referee could have chosen to uphold tackling laws and reined in the physical excesses of Fiji. You could give Stephen Jones 100 goes at hitting the posts and he would not manage three!
Genetically Wales does not produce the brick outhouses of the SP islanders. They can run and pass but lack the ability to rule at set piece, so after the cleanest of push-overs Wales tried to play loose and perished.Whoever thinks kicking to open field is a 'tactic'needs correcting.GJ please go gracefully.
Wales won all aspects of the game except kicking and turn-overs. Why do we play 2 outside halves? There are specialist 12s in the country?
Thanks for trying team - time for all true supporters to come to the aid of the country and SHUT UP. WRU should sort this out in private. Bad enough to lose but then to gut ourselves in public? - unnecessary.
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I have read that some considered this game one of the best they have seen - well I found it to be a harrowing experience - its 4 oclock in the morning and I cannot sleep because I cannot get this game out of my head.
I fully agree that Jenkins must go. The replacement must be someone who can build a team - teamwork is the key - building a team around Alun wyn jones and hook bringing in young talent and looking ahead to 2011.
Congratulations to Fiji
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Well what can I say? As proud Welshman I celebrated my 34th birthday today with Wales being knocked out of the 2007 World cup. Sitting here writing this message, after reflecting what has happened. I am not surprised Wales has been knocked out. As this has not been the first time welsh supporters have been disappointed. For years we have built ourselves up to believing that our international rugby team is much better than what it is.
The current Welsh side has some great players and the core of the team have been around for as some years and I truly belief that on its day we can beat most of the top 5 sides. Since the 2005 grand slam we have slipped back in terms of players and coaches. The current Welsh coaches are a young set of international coaches and that apart from Gareth Jenkins & Nigel Davies are the only coaches to have worked in the Magners league. But where do we go from here, we have a habit of sacking coaches before they finish their contracts. We have had Southern Hemisphere coaches in the past which have showed that can improve Welsh rugby. But I think we need a blend of Welsh and Southern hemisphere coaches to help us play the rugby that suits us and give us the tactical awareness that would help.
After the current Northern Hemisphere performance, I think that a British
Super league is inevitable as none of the British countries have dazzled the 2007 RWC.
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c'mon welsh fans - don't put your team down - I would say this was the best game I have ever seen in this world cup - with entertaining rugby from both teams -none of this "pile up points"stuff from 1st tier nations.I feel the welsh team did their best but I think the bounce of the ball at the end ruled the day.
To the welsh fans who say their was alot of 'high tackles' - face it-- it is a contact sport after all.Congrats again to Ilie Tabua,Moses Rauluni and the boys for a fine performance - we can't wait for more "pacific style" rugby against S.Africa.To IRB please pay heed to 2nd tier nations.
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It was a fantastastic game of rugby from both sides and Fiji came out on top it had everything you would want to see in a game skill, physicality, power,
ebb and flow, drama, yes and some mistakes, I'm glad Wales played an open running style perhaps they could of mixed it up a bit more but they played some fine running rugby of the likes we seldom see now. Fiji were terrific, brute force and power with their running flair and their never give up attitude. Yes they deserved to win. They took nearly all their chances while Wales failed to take all of theirs. Nearly all if not all the players played their hearts out from both sides and deserve to be congratulated on the best rugby match of the world cup so far. As for coaches they do their best and sometimes their best is not good enough, but i would certainly like to see a more consistant return to the type of rugby Wales played in the Grand slam of 2005 where there was more emphasis on keeping possession of the ball, ball retention and most importantly quick ball from the breakdown and the judious use of the boot.
I hope Fiji can give South Africa as good a game as they gave Wales and then we will all be in for a treat.
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Wales were beaten, but Fiji played extremely well, and both sides gave us the best game of the WC so far. That was enthralling stuff, and exactly what the game is all about and why we all love it. I'm English, but I wasn't laughing at the Welsh demise. Wales lost because they were outmuscled in the loose and they missed too many kicks. Hook missed a sitter, and Jones hit the post three times. I didn't think Fiji was the better side overall, but they had the sheer bloodymindedness, and at times the run of the ball. Fiji would have beaten a lot of quality teams last night, and at least Wales gave us a great game. One comment on the refereeing: it does seem like the Pacific Island sides are allowed to play from offside positions and repeatedly get away with late and high tackles. This was a feature of England's games against Samoa and Tonga too, but more especially last night from Fiji. If Mr. Dickinson was even semi-competent there would have been more yellow cards dished out, and Wales would have won.
Never mind Wales. At least you played exciting rugby and gave us all a spectacle. No major rebuilding required, just pick only one kicker and up the physicality at the breakdown.
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This is a results business and I think Jenkins has to go on that basis. He has been teetering on the edge for a long time now although I am sure he will ruefully look back on the ubiquitous individual errors that have plagued us through this tournament and think these have pushed him over. Our 'big game' players have jsut not done it. Let's not forget, on caps, we WERE the most experienced team at this world cup. After a bright start should shanklin have passed ? Should we really have wasted 5 minutes going for 7 points with 50 minutes left? Maybe they thought there was no such thing as an 'easy three' after a frankly inept kicking performance from two front line international kickers. Nobody expects Hook or Jones to smash people back in the tackle but we do expect them to kick goals from in front of the posts.
Congratulations and good luck to Fiji. Lets not moan about brutal play, they were meant to be 6/1 underdogs and did what they had to do to win, something we have long forgotten how to do.
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Look what happens when u leave a star player like henson out of the team. Jenkins is the worst coach ive ever seen. does hook at second five bring anything to the team? Henson is class.
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I am gutted. What team will make it worthwhile to continue to watching the competition when you are 100% Welsh. The hat is off to Fiji - they did not make many handling errors. They were immense, and didn't live up to the past. When we hit the post for the second time it waa destiny. Fundamentally though, why does a team concede 20 points in 20 minutes. We are missing something. I think Hook is finished as an international after that performance - he lost the ball in contact, and shadowed the player so long I thought he was hoping for the sun to go down. The only silver lining was that Shane had a great game . Graeme Henry dropped him as he thought he was not good enough.
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Wales, where is silver boots when u need him?
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its rugby we all win we all lose. get off their backs. gareth jenkins hasnt done a good job as welsh coach....lets not hate him 4it. onwards and upwards. start preparin now.
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I'm an expat pom living in Oz. This world cup has shown how far behind the southern hemisphere teams we generally are. The physicality, lines of running and the ability and determination to run the ball from anywhere are showing us up. Playing in Oz has opened my eyes to the attacking nature of southern hemisphere rugby. The ARC competition in Oz is already experimenting with new rule changes to speed the game up even more and reward attacking play. If the established nations play the smaller island nations more, thus spreading the money around then this type of result will happen more.
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Are Wales now minnows?
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As a welsh girl living in Australia, I thought that I had realistic exepctations, but apparently not. I dread work next week.....
In all the pool games we were highly sporadic and at times quite dire.... there was no consistency, no apparent game plan and against a very exciting and committed Fiji side, deserved to lose.
Go Fiji - you showed the pride and committment that the welsh team lacked.
Have to say though that Popham was the one exception.... pity that others could not stand up with him.
Essentially it was 15 individuals not playing as a team.
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High Tackles? If its isn't enough that the welsh lost the game their fans have to complain about the south sea islanders tackling... go and play soccer if you can handle the hits. We in the islands play rugby perhaps netball would be a safer sport.
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I found it interesting that every welsh try was followed by showboating by the players; fair enough when youre winning (comfortably) but in that game it smacked of unprofessionalism and lack of concentration for the job in hand.
Well played Fiji.
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Great game, hats off to all that played. Tactically Wales had a shocker, once any of the south sea teams smell blood they go for the juguler.
If the quality of rugby is to improve cash rich nothern hemisphere clubs need to put away their cheque books and start investing in home grown talent, wave after wave of near retiring names cash in because they put bums on seats. If you buy a season ticket and put your clubs replica shirt on and watch a team sprickled with foriegn talent do not be supprised or moan when your national team has no creative players. You are selling your country down the swanie. The vast majority of NPC players can potentialy play for the AB's with a little help from there island bro's. Very few northern players over there but those that have taken a cut in wages benifit greatly Johnston ,Hastings , Winterbottom to name a few. Clubs are businesses and should be limited by the RFU to how many non nationals in a team, they need to show some balls and direction something they have needed to do in England, im sure it will be the same in wales, since we won the cup 4 wasted years ago. NZ could have fielded three teams and ended up with an all NZ final, at least some of the players would not have far to travel if it was for this world cup. Stop supporting the influx of foriegn players at all levels of rugby for the good of your national team. Rant over, feel better after that!
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* Mark Jones wrote:
"The way Fiji showed how the game should be played is."
High tackle after high tackle!!! Living offside, a number of late tackles (many high) and lets not forget the knee to Stephen Jones' chest. Yeah, well done Fiji, you really showed us how to play the game.
The referees in this world cup have been way too lenient in their rulings against the south sea island teams.
how about the fact that he was just trying to defend himself from that goon Stephen Jones who was flying in from an offside position! And he didnt kick him he just lifted his leg up oh but thats right Islander nations are all thugs! not nations that tend to play the game at a more pure flowing style instead of just kicking for touch and using boring tactics..dead set is it me or can't some of you Northern Hemisphere teams take hits and not whinge about it or something??
And yea and don't try and say that wales weren't committing plenty of professional fouls cause they were (not rolling away was a big one! two occasions when fiji were about 10 meters away from the line)
your a deadset gaff Mark Jones!!
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The most important measure for me is the team score not the individual scores and ratings.
Wales played again like an invitation team drawn together for a big match and relying on individual flair to get them through.
Fiji were a team focused on winning, with a game plan that involved individual skill but was built around working together with clear objectives of winning the ball in the loose.
The Welsh pack beat the Fijians in the set pieces especially the scrum but unfortunately poor distribution from Peel (the worse game I have ever seen from him) no penetration from Stephen Jones(what's new?)and Hook an outside half being used as battering ram at centre. Didn't work, hasn't worked before, and is down to not getting a balance into the team that we would expect from our national team.
Was Alfie fit to play? or was he in to get the record of 100 caps?
If you play Alfie then he and Shanklin in the centre to stem the Fijian attack would have seemed the best position with a safe and attcking player at full back.?
Gareth Edwards suggeted on Scrum V last week that Mike Phillips start the match as he has the bulk and strength to match the physical challenges of the Fijians, that Wales keep it tight, kick for position and wear the opposition down first before opening up to a more expansive game .
What did we do - the complete opposite - played right into their hands and paid the price.
Well done Fijian players and coaches for having a clear plan which they stuck to and which produced success.
Goodbye Alfie, Stephen,and Welsh Coaching staff, we need a new management , no more player power, no Scott Johnson or anyone else we have tried before and has failed, we need new ideas new unbiased minds to use the talent we have and develop it into a winning team. Lets start looking at the emerging nations in this World Cup and their management teams and ideas.
The WRU must act quickly or suffer further humiliation in the Six Nations.
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Hang on where is the Fiji Ratings!!??
YESSS!!! well done Fiji!!!
Commitment the commentators over here FoxSports(Aus) said that Qera was just trying to defend himself and im inclined to agree.
Anyways all i can say is imagine if fiji had, Rupeni Caucaunibuca (cau cau) and Rokocoko , and Sivivatu (who should be playing for Fiji) playing we'd give South Africa a hard time thats for sure!
But yeah felt sorry for the Welsh at the end it'll have to be one of the best game of this world cup it was edge of the seat stuff. I just don't think they took Fiji seriously from the outset though.
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As a neutral the match was incredible to watch. Very exciting.
The welsh were outplayed by a very fired up fijins. I feel sad for welsh team only because Welsh team has such a passionate fan base.
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To martlin L Post 101:
"Martyn Williams cost us the game for not running in closer to the post."
Get a fepping grip!
The man had run himself ragged for over 70 mins, sprints 50-60 metres to score an interception and put his side into a largely undeserved lead.
It was still a straight-forward conversion - at international level.
Nugget has been one of the few consistently international class performers for years. He is inevitably at the heart of everything Wales do well.
Wales lost the match and failed to play anywhere near an acceptable level at RWC because:
1). We were tactically inept - how much time did we waste trying back-row moves in a succession of 5-metre scrums in the first half before simply pushing them over the line for Popham to flop on the ball and claim the try?
2). Selections were just plain daft (Ian Evans for Ian Gough being a prime example).
3). We were incapable of playing for 80 mins - it is no good "coming to life" for 20 or 25 mins in the second half and chasing a game. The Grand Slam season saw us take control early on and keep it.
4). We shot ourselves in the foot...again - the Grand Slam season showed we had the makings of a very good side, but all the progress made under Ruddock has been lost and we'll probably never know the reasons why. We needed to use the Grand Slam season as a solid foundation to build on, instead we've gone backwards ever since with the occasional flash of what might have been.
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I am suprised by the loss though not totally shocked.Fiji played a fantastic tactic in driving, mauling and rucking the ball into the welsh 22 and then launching the big runners at the welsh backs. Wales missed alot of touches allowing Fiji to run the same tactic over and over again. Wales did score a couple of superb tries but Fiji were down a man then and once the numbers returned to even then Wales struggled with the power again. Tom Shanklin din't have his best game and James Hook looked underpowered in midfield. I hate to mention Henson (who definately didn't belong in this world cup)but his physicality and 60-70m kicks would have helped the welsh cause.
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Fiji were the better side. Full Stop. Southern Hemisphere rugby has swept the North away and the semi-final teams will probably be South Africa, New Zealand, Australia and Argentina.
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in response to post 148 and 159...
Not quite sure what the purpose of your posts are?
I look forward to the England and Australia game though. England might just 'scrape' a win.
Whilst we aren't New Zealand, I am sure we could probably beat Hong Kong.
You'll find the majority of true welsh fans that have posted on here realise that the better side won and Fiji deserved to win.
Well done Fiji. Good luck against SA.
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You Welsh fans better stop crying and moaning about the loss and accept defeat like a man. All the crying about high tackles makes me sick to my stomach. If the Fijians were high tackling the Welsh....then why aren't the Welsh high tackling the Fijians back???? Sounds pretty stupid for me to believe that the entire Welsh team just stand there to get high tackled by the Fijians without any retribution. Or maybe we should introduce the Welsh national rugby team to women's softball?
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I remember when Gareth Jenkins was asked in his first interview for Wales coach........"would you have played with or against the wind against Ireland ?"
A simple tactical question, which he was not expecting to be asked in such a job interview......prefering to be asked a question to which he could waffle on about... coaching sttucture and organisation.
Well he just doesn't have tactical planning abilities to be a successful Wales couch!
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Wales are in the same boat as all the other home nations sides and for that matter France.
The simple fact is that within the cosy six nations annual competition they are living in a world of their own! The six nations does not mimic a World Cup qualifying pool.
I do not expect any of the six nations to be in the semi finals let alone the final!
This annual competition will need to be revamped if its participants want to compete well in future world cups.
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desperately disappointed, but well done Fiji, and yesterday's game was great for the sport.
The unfortunate thing now is that we will have the usual typical welsh response to adversity. You know, the one which is the reason why we are a small conquered nation in the first place.
I saw no lack of effort from the players, they tried hard and contributed something to this world cup, the way they contributed to the last (though nowhere near as successfully).
I compare our squad of players (inc injuries) to those of the last 25 years, and it compares favourably. Okay, Jenkins is obviously living on another planet, but he was partly driven there by the rough edge of our drama queen mentality.
We have the basis of a very good team, and the future looks promising. Why don't all our drama queens go and support football instead.
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Curiously, I think this defeat has its roots in the 2005 Grand Slam, which Wales won with an exciting open running game. If they had progressed from then, and accepted they needed to pose a more physical challenge in the forwards especially, they might now be awesome. But the plan seems to have been to produce more of the same, even though they suffered thumping defeats from teams with powerful packs of forwards. Wales have a couple of the most exciting runners in world Rugby; Shane Williams gets into my world team squad for example. As England showed in the 6 nations 2006 and warm up game it has become much too easy to keep the ball away from them.
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Question.....were the ratings out of 100?.....cos only then would I think them accurate!
Right Harllote....where's my coffee and croissant....yummy!
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rabeni was amazing all over wales in the first half.
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Lets not get hysterical and look at the facts. Its a simple game rugby, the problem is we play it with simple minded players, and coaching staff. Take the points on offer is the basic rules, we had 60 mins to go, why not keep the board ticking over, instead we use up 10 mins and score a pushover try. We alternated kickers instead of keeping 1 who could get his judgement right? We score a break away try and run away from the posts, thus making the extra points harder, and ultimately costing us the match, as the penalty at the end would have won the game. We had the better set piece play, but decided on an open game against physically better athletes. We lost the game in Australia by kicking the ball away with 2 mins left on the clock( Cooper). We lost the game to Italy by kicking to touch with time up instead of getting the points for a draw. GJ said judge me on the World cup, we have so thank you and goodbye. However the players will not change whoever coaches them, we are not intelligent enough to win close games, so where do we go from here in reality?
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Gareth jenkins has to go he must have had a game plan to start the match im sure that was not to give them 25 points start. the buck stops at him sorry but bye bye
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Congratulations to Fiji for progressing to the quarters, fully deserved it. I think Wales need to go back to the drawing board - the pack need to front up, stop being bullied and retain some ball. The backs need to learn to defend as well as they attack. Wales ship points too easily to be successful in international rugby, they need to have a rethink tactically.
Also totally agree with comment by yello #177. The referee was awful yesterday and should have clamped down on the dirty tackling from the Fijians. He also missed a blatent piece of crossing for the first try. He was nearly as bad as the ref in the Scotland game !!!! It sounds strange to say this but credit to the English refs who I think have been well ahead of their SH counterparts.
However Wales shouldn't use this as an excuse, Fiji were excellent value for the win and should give South Africa a good test in the quarters.
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Congratulations Fiji.
A great display of commitment and will to win that all of our home nations could learn from based on the World Cup so far. And there was me thinking that England would be the only 主播大秀 Nation NOT to qualify.
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TO MANY CHIEFS NOT ENOUGH INDIANS .TEAM CAPTAIN AND PACK LEADER ARE SADLY OUT OF TOUCH WHEN QUICKLY TAKEN PENALTIES ARE TAKEN WILLY NILLY BY AN INDIVIDUAL WHO RUNS DIRECTLY AT THE COVER DEFENSE OF FIJI WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT TO THE LEFT OR RIGHT OF HIM,QUITE OPPOSITE TACTICS TO OZ AND THE ALL BLACKS,ALSO THE LATTER MENTIONED VERY RARELY DECLINES TAKING THE EASYCLOSE IN CONVERSIONS OR DROP GOALS WHICH HELPS TO CONSLIDATE AND PUT THE OPPOSITION UNDER PRESSURE,BUT FACTUALY IT WAS POOR PLACE KICKING BY WALES THAT WILL BE REMEMBERED ON THE FINAL SCOREBOARD.
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Phill Bennet was right in his advice to Gareth Jenkins
........." for the sake of Welsh rugby and everyone else's, he's gotta go!"
if he doesn't go today, he's gonna drag everyone down with him!
Put a stop to the World Cup backlash.
...go now.
The world cup is still on.....and it will provide a good cover for him to resign now.
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Haven't been through all the above 192 posts, but did anybody else notice the fact that Jones hit wood three times and at least once because Williams could'nt be arsed to run his try under the posts. That was 7 or 8 points gone, and Hook was spot on with his kicks
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As A South African (albeit one who has lived in England for many years), I would hope that I'm quite neutral in these discussions. However, I do feel that one needs to make the following points:
a) Fiji played really well; it appears that some parts of Wales can still not accept this fact.
b) Some criticism must be levelled at the Welsh players and / or coaching staff. It is quite clear that Wales played a v. open style and didn't consistently exploit the advantages that they had in the tight game (scrum etc.).
c) The Fiji tackling did on quite a few occasions clearly leave something to be decided (e.g. the late tackle on Popham). However, given Gareth Thomas's appalling late hit on Barrick Barnes of Australia a week or two ago, people need to be careful about "throwing too many stones."
d) The performance of England, Wales & Ireland (and to a less extent the other 6N teams) must raise serious questions about the strength of the 6N tournament!
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This result is surprising but not shocking. You have to remember that these Fijian players have not been plucked from the beaches of the South Pacific...likewise the Tongans and Samoans. Most of the squad play professionally in Europe and New Zealand. They are serious, skilled, professional athletes with tremendous physiques. All three South Pacific teams would beat Scotland and Italy as well. European rugby is VERY VERY poor at the moment - as seen by the French loss to Argentina, England's mauling at the hands of South Africa, the woeful Scots vs NZ, and the hapless Irish. The semi finalists will probably be NZ, South Africa, Australia and Argentina - not a European team in sight. Why? Because all of your top club sides in Europe are FULL of players from these nations - not homegrown talent. Wise up or be left behind for a LONG LONG time.
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It is my humble opinion that Gareth Jenkins should not resign! He wasn't the one on the pitch! He can only do so much with what he had to work with and given the general state of over-inflated ego's running around on the pitch with Welsh shirts on, I imagine he couldn't do that much. Either the players must publicly admit , all of them, that they let the coach down and withdraw themselves from international selection for a season or Gareth Jenkins goes out and tells everyone how bad they were and how much crap he has to take from the players, and the clubs and the WRU! If this doesn't get them moving in the right direction then nothing will!
If the players feel like trying to keep up the illusion that they are world class and/or the WRU still believe in rugby management by committee then they should come out and fire Gareth Jenkins! And make it very clear that they blame him. Then let them see what the public thinks!
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A headless chicken performance from Wales. Time and time again the wrong option was taken. They did not have a leader out there and Gareth Thomas and the other senior players should be ashamed of themselves.
The Fijians were courageous and at times magnificent.As the blog author could not see past the Welsh team, here are my own ratings for the Fijian players (starting 15):
Ratuvou - 7
Delasau - 7
Rabeni - 9 exceptional
Bai - 7
Neivua 7
Little - 9 exceptional
Rauluni - 9
Dewes - 6
Koto - 5
Railomo - 5
Leawere - 6
Rawaqa - 7
Naevo - 8
Qera - 8
Koyamaibole - 8
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Following the ignominy of defeat to Fiji, it is inevitable that the inquest will assume a scale of epic proportions. I offer one simple observation - at the end of the game, the Fijians gathered together in prayer. The Tongans did the same after their match with England. In our modern affluent society, it would seem unthinkable for Welsh rugby players to do likewise. Yet, only fifty years ago Welsh and Fijians players embraced in friendship and sang 鈥楴ow is The Hour鈥 together, and the crowd were able to join them as one man. At that time we seemed far more confident as Welsh people in who we were. We appeared more certain of what, collectively, we believed.
Today we still sing 鈥楪uide me O Thou Great Jehovah 鈥 I am weak but Thou art mighty鈥, but how many Welsh supporters know all the words to William Williams鈥檚 great hymn? More than that, how many believe them? An afternoon at the old Arms Park was once a unique cultural experience, one which synthesised all that was strong and unifying about the Welsh identity. By contrast, a big game at the Millennium Stadium today is littered with face paints, silly hats and children with hooters.
Since the last decades of the nineteenth century, rugby union has helped define who we are as a Welsh nation. We have been a closely-knit community, culturally established upon a foundation of hard work, mutual respect and the values of Nonconformity. In 2007, it would seem that, as a society, we have grown selfish, complacent and fat on the prosperity of our age. As a generation, we no longer know what we believe. Our rugby merely reflects that. At the end of yesterday鈥檚 game Garin Jenkins, speaking on Radio Wales, bemoaned the lack of a team ethic in our schools. It is a problem that teachers face on a daily basis in their classrooms. Materially we are so privileged. Morally we are bankrupt. It is an open secret that a significant number of our top rugby players can regularly be seen the worse for drink on the streets of Cardiff, Newport or Swansea. If we have ambitions to win the Rugby World Cup we may have to look a little more closely, not only at the rugby skills of the southern hemisphere nations, but also at the values and cultural aspirations that make them so much stronger than us.
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Lets celebrate the fact that yesterday we finally had a game of Rugby, even as a disapointed welshman i must applaud the skills shown. We were treated to a running freeflowing game, with 9 tries scored. We were never going to win this world cup, nor are the other home nations, so whats the point of boring the world with the English approach. Remember no tries against france and a hammering against SA without a try, with another hammering to come against australia this weekend. Who cares if you make the last eight, 4 or 2, only the winners get remembered. Look at the dismal Scottish Italian game afterwards, 1 try and 6 penalties to the scots, there through but the game will never be remembered by anyone. This World cup is about entertaining the crowds, and promoting the game worldwide, only NZ are going to win it, so loosen up and enjoy the spectacle.
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The only way to FORCE the WRU to sort out the shambles is to hit them where it hurts, in the pocket.
Don't pay to watch Wales in Cardiff....protest....an empty Millenium Stadium will soon bring some serious changes. Its all about the MONEY.
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There is a major problem with the WRU. Has been for years, but the spotlight always falls onto the coach, to focus the puplic's attention away from the real issues.
GJ would get a job in the southern hemisphere no problem.
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Every time Wales lose we get this hysterical self criticism and we throw the baby out with the bath water. I agree that the team made lots of errors, both in first half tactics and that our kickers lost us the game. However I disagree totaly with the ratings above. Wales scored good tries and often used possession well. Fiji play a lot of sevens rugby so they are fast, creative and dangerous in possession, especially if they break the first tackle. We did very well to come back from 25:3. Our forwards were better than expected and its a shame that we didnt keep more possession with them. We isolated our players and kicked our possession away to readily.
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Fair play fiji were good, but not that good. They shouldn't have walked over us like they did in the first half. 1st minute we should of been on the score sheet. We played some exceptional rugby in the 2nd half and scored some great tries, our goal kicking and kicking out of hand let us down. Jones hit post 3 times, Hook missed an absolute sitter. Oh yeah and you under rated martyn williams big time, one player proud to wear out colours, a class act and showed some pace too. 10/10, Jenkins must go not because he's a terrible coach but to build the morale up around the team they need a fresh start without him.
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its about time people realised blaming the coaches is the easy option the coaches didnt miss tackles, get turned over, drop the ball and throw bad passes the players did look no further simple really!
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Can you imagine if Shane Williams had show boated the way he did whilst wearing an all blacks shirt. If he run under the posts we could have taken the 3 points at the end and won the game. If he'd been an all black that would have been his last game, full stop.
What a clown.
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The one good thing to come from of the Fiji game is that it finally affords the opportunity to get rid of Gareth Jenkins. Hopefully some of the top job incumbents in the WRU will also get booted out. Gareth Jenkins should go down in Welsh rugby history as the man who took over a world class side and turned it into a 2nd/3rd class one. I have never felt happy with him in charge as he doesn鈥檛 come across as a person who inspires confidence and if he doesn鈥檛 inspire the squad then they are never going to win any big games. He has consistently misjudged the opposition, decided on the wrong tactics and doesn鈥檛 appear to be able to pick the right starting 15 as he gets it wrong most of the time. The WRU got rid of the best Welsh coach that we have had for many a year when Mike Ruddock was forced out. Bring back Mike Ruddock and give him the support he deserves and he will produce the goods.
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Wales
Stop listning to all the crap that people talk , train hard get fitter than any other team , and get out there hold on to the ball stop the kicking, make the tackles be fast in all you do you dont have to be bigger then the rest just faster more clever and play with passion never give in or give up , Play like the great old players Gareth Edwards
Phil Bennet , Barry John , Davies JJ & JPR Williams , stop thinking your not good enought , Remember in 2003 when in the first against England & All Blacks you took them apart , that the way you need to Play .
You could have beaten the Ausies And Fiji , but they were the best on the day . Move on now Play with Passion and say to yourselfs we are not going to lie down but we are looking for Grand slam 2008 and World Cuo winners 2011 God Willing .
Its been a Good World Cup So Far
Good Luck England
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It's all been said in the above posts.
Well done Fiji, they won a fantastic game for sure BUT I do not think the best team won.
Wales were under par and lacked execution. Basics like putting the ball under the posts to aid the kicker, kicking our goals, not kicking deep to a team that will run at you from anywhere, tactical territory kicking etc etc.
Fiji deserved the win for sure but it was more as a result of poor execution from Wales.
The Welsh set up misses Andrew Hoare, a great conditioning man. Physically they didn't compete but there's no reason why they can't, they just didn't prepare. That said, but for the missed kicks at goal, we'd have won so perhaps the physical gap isn't so big.
We have been too predictable for too long, we lack the ability to react early in the game, giving too much away in the early stages.
The players tried their best and worked hard but poor tactics and lack of basic rugby skills lost them the game yesterday. Sorry Fiji, great game yesterday, you deserved the win but the best team lost.
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Jenkins has been sacked... hooray!
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What I saw yesterday was not a bad Welsh team but a team lacking in leadership. The 20 minutes when Fiji run in most of their scores was a period when Thomas, or whoever, should have got his boys together and said, "calm down, lets go through the phases, get the ball, keep it and let it work for us". Instead, the team was alowed to chase around like a sunday pub team doing their own frantic thing but not working to a game plan.
Get some calm headed leaders on the park and the future will be bright. Don't blame the coach, he was not the one losing control and direction, that was down to the players.
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More money needs to be put into rebuilding Rugby in Wales from the bottom up. We need more Regional sides than just 4 so that we can find more youth to build for the future of Welsh Rugby! Bring back the Celtic Warriors! More youth needs to come from Hard Tough Valley towns where players have to be tough, big and strong! That can Carry the ball as good as the south sea's Players.
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Unfortunately, it had come to the point where I wasn't shocked that we lost to Fiji. I didn't think it would happen, but I wasn't shocked. At a time where so many international teams seem to be going forward (i.e. Fiji, Tonga, Canada, USA, Argentina...) we seem to be in reverse. Something is wrong.
Perhaps that winning the Grand Slam in 2005 is to blame. It must have gone to the heads of some players, especially due to the fact that we hadn't really challenged for any major trophies for a long time before that. Credit was due back then, but we can't live on those past memories and think we can turn on a switch any time we're in dire straits and play champagne rugby.
Many people blame the coaching staff. After all, these are the peolpe who choose the team, lay down tactics and prepare the players involved. Preparation was not good and tactics were somewhat questionable at times. They chose the best players available, yet people will always have an opinion on team selection. However, the coaching staff aren't the ones on the field, so it is unfair to lay the blame on one man (although Gareth Jenkins hasn't helped himself in some respects).
The players did not perform well enough this year. Some of this is due to tactics, but most is down to them. They must have the brains to play what is in front of them and change tactics accordingly if things aren't going their way on the pitch. It is not the coaching team's job to inspire and ensure passion. The red jersey, the supporters and the sheer enjoyment of playing in the best rugby tournament in the world should do that. If the players fail to play with passion, it is their fault. Has money spoiled the game in Wales? Perhaps, but I honsetly think that every rugby player enjoys what he is doing, especially if they reach the highest level. What money has done, is provide a saftey blanket for each player. If they play badly, they will still be paid the same. In some professions or jobs, if you provide a poor quality of service, you would not be paid (or at least not as much). So, do we lay the blame with the players for our early exit? Or the money? What about those chiefs at the WRU? They're the ones ultimately responsible, yet nobody has said anything about them resigning.
In my opinion, we should blame everything and everybody. Sure it is easy to get rid of the coach and carry on with our heads in the sand, but can somebody please look at the bigger picture? My main concern in Wales is the growing influence our media is having on the game. The pressure they put on the players and coaches is immense. They more or less choose the team and tactics by slating certain players one week and changing its mind the next. They get away with it because they say that the players are 'professionals' and that they should deal with it. Sorry, but I disagree. While it is incorrect and false to praise and ignore important issues when things are going wrong on the pitch, it is also incorrect to attack people in the increasingly extreme way that they tend to do.
Where do we go from now? I'm not sure. What I would say, is that everybody needs to look at themselves closely. While winning the Grand Slam in 2005 might have been a bad thing for Wales, losing to Fiji and exiting the group stage of the World Cup in 2007 might be the best thing that could have happened. We must learn lessons from this.
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being paid does not mean these guys have the right to call themselves proffessionals, its more about a state of mind.When you see some of the welsh squad out drinking a few weeks before the world cup says every thing! Change the pay structure, where they have a small salary and everything else is earned on a commission structure based on Perfomance?
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personally i believe wales have a squad that could win but we need to drop stephen jones for james hook, and mike phillips should replace peel for the big sides aka northern hemisphere. WHERE IS HENSON, tempremental yes butworld class. and finally byrn as full back
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Ding dong Jenkins is gone!
Finally best thing the WRU have done in years. Only got the job because he threw his teddys out the pram when Ruddock got the job! Look at what he did compared to jenkins!
I think there only 3 men in the running for the job!
1. John Kirwin- look what he has done to teams like italy and japan. Got them playing good rugby and playing with passion!
2. Steve Hansen- has already said he would come back and coach wales
3. Sir Clive- All the players take a pay cut pay him what he wants he loves a challange!
OR at a long shot WRU get down on there knees and bring back sir Mike Ruddock! (not very likely)
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I've just heard that Jenkins has been sacked. Good riddance - I'd love to hear which 'people' formed the basis of him being the 'peoples choice' because I've never rated him as a coach, and Scarlets fans were delighted to see the back of him when he left Stradey. He'd gone stale there, and they were pleading for change. He's old news, a completely uninspiring coach and man, who deluded himself into thinking he could be the top man in Welsh Rugby.
I wonder how good the players feel about hounding Ruddock out now? Jenkins took us back ten years.
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Why did Martyn Williams not bother to run his try in nearer the posts? There was no one within 5m of him, when he crossed the line. If he had behaved like a professional and tried to get as close to the posts as possible, he would have made the conversion far easier. Wales would then have been in a position to get back in the game with a penalty at the end instead of needing a try. Sas that he seemed more anxious to start celebrating the try than to do the best for his team...
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The celebrations of three of the Welsh try scorers - M Jones, 'Alfie', S Williams - was absolutely pathetic and reveals them as individuals who are far more concerned with personal image than team success.
Rugby does not need this self-indulgence and the RWC is a better place for their departure.
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We were never going to win the World Cup but it does not soften the bitter disappointment of exiting the competition in this manner. We only performed when Fiji were down to 14 men. Too many turnovers, poor kicking and a lack of desire compared to the rampant, bulldozing, believing Fijians.
Edge of the seat stuff for nuetral spectators. Well done Fiji.
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To DanJ
The coach is responsible for the team selection, the tactics/gameplan and 'impact' substitutions. None of which went right yesterday. Yes, the players have to stand up and say they didn't play well for long periods of the game, and often were paniced into playing snatchy, headless chicken rugby (right into Fiji's strengths), but the leadership from the stands just didn't give the players on the field the confidence in the team as a whole - at least, that's what it looked like on TV, whatever the interviwed palyers/coaches say. Which brings another gripe - all the 'management' speak, and utter gibberish that flows from these people at times - the "processes", the "putting in place" etc. How about just picking the best 15 players in their respective positions, with adequate back-up on the bench in case of injury. That would be a good start.
We need to start planning for 2011 NOW, as soon as they get back to Wales. We will probably need a new coach, retire a few players to bring in youngsters fired up with passion for the jersey. We take a few whippings in the 6Nations for a couple of seasons, but we need to put together a consistent side. Stop all the squad rotation for its own sake, such that the team plays as a TEAM! Yes, we need competition for places, but that's what the regions were set up for. At least, that's what they SHOULD have been set up for (I think self interest got the better of them, and we just ended up with 4 super-clubs, who are now too full of semi-retired imports earning their pensions, in the clubs strife for success, over the interest of the national team - how can having, for example, 4 of the 5 2nd rows vying for Welsh caps in the same side, be good for Welsh Rugby?).
And somewhere along the line, someone from the WRU 'establishment' or region, needs to get inside Gavin Henson's head, and get the lad back to being HAPPY to play rugby. The emotional/psychological duffing up he got on the Lions tour, and the player power ousting him (and Ruddock) out, needs to be purged for the good of our game. To go into the RWC without a proper 12, was suicidal.
We supporters in Wales invest a lot of emotion, not to mention cold hard cash, into the national side, and to see them humbled, makes US feel humbled. That is why so many get so wound up about what is happening off the field, as this seems to muck up what happens ON the field. Once the red jerseys appear on the pitch, all this forgotten for 80 mins as we support them with all our being. But afterwards, when we feel that the background rubbish has prevented them from being able to produce their best, then yes, we get angry about it.
Sorry this is so long! (not that anyone will probably read it, or if they do, action it)
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The whole board of the Welsh rugby union should be given the boot for getting rid of the best coach that lead Wales to the first grand slam in years. They should be made to publicly beg him to come back. As for the players maybe they should play for the honour and not the money thay are being payed to much to loose.
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How fickel we really are, yes Jenkins has gone thank god, applauded by the people who 16 months ago were screaming to employ him. Ruddock left for matters off the rugby field, and will not ever come back. Henry was sent packing despite having the best record of any Welsh coach, because we were thrashed in Ireland. Hansen knew we were not good enough, so bailed out at the end of his contract. What next, someone elses discarded national coach like eddie Jones or John kirwan?. Give sir Clive the job, an open purse for 8 years and bore the Rugby world with win at all costs rugby? The simple facts are the players we produce are just not streetwise when they need to be, this is down to schoolboy and club levels of coaching not instilling winning and smart tactics when needed. A coach is as good as the players he has to coach with, so no remedy in site for a very long time unfortunately. Anyone who takes this job, deepdown will no he cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear, so will take the money and run eventually. WRU should not bow to public demands as they have done in the past, but really think about how to go forward with this appointment, forget the six nations coming up, thats really only for domestic pride, time to get away from the beat England at all costs mentallity and move on.
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Truth is this is the only time in living memory that the WRU have acted quickly. Good show..
As for the try celebrations well. Its worrying that one day shane is going to look a right plonker when he drops the ball or worse hurts himself.
This is now a business and Jenkins couldnt put people on seats at the stadium. I for one am glad we lost.the reason is simple get woodward in.
Lets have some discipline in our game
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What a day for Welsh rugby! Well done to Fiji, but Wales should have won, and won convincingly. It is essentially the same group of players that won the Grand Slam in 2005, so the problem must be the coaching. Glad he's gone, to be honest. Hopefully we will now get someone who will not ruin our national game any further. I look forward to the ribbing I'll get in work from some of my Fijian friends. I'm so glad my [rather expensive] replica shirt is now out of date!
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Adam (msg 184).
"You Welsh fans better stop crying and moaning about the loss and accept defeat like a man. All the crying about high tackles makes me sick to my stomach. If the Fijians were high tackling the Welsh....then why aren't the Welsh high tackling the Fijians back???? Sounds pretty stupid for me to believe that the entire Welsh team just stand there to get high tackled by the Fijians without any retribution. Or maybe we should introduce the Welsh national rugby team to women's softball?"
Thought we were playing rugby. With that attitude, why not just dispense with the rugby field, and have the match in the boxing ring, last man standing the winner. Secondly, most Welsh fans ave been congratualting Fiji on their victory. They had a gameplan, and they played it well; their running with ball in hand was immense. However, part of that gameplan seemed to be to noble Alix Popham by whatever means possible; a shoulder charge to Peel's chest fully 5 seconds after the ball had gone was bordering on a red card, but didn't even get a yellow! Power and big hits are admirable, exciting even, when legitimate - when not, they bring rugby into disrepute. It is often these 'thuggish' elements of the game that prevent the game becoming more globally accepted. We have done away with fiercesome rucking (even when it would be wholly deserved) as you cannot place a foot on anyone on the floor now, and the game has benefitted from it. So it will from preventing virtual decapitation in the tackle
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Congratulations to Fiji for a great win!
Congratulations to Fiji & Wales for a great game!
Now, Wales, it's over - move on.
Win the Six Nations!
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I find it hard for people who follow welsh rugby through thick and thin not to be saddened by this result.I honestly think the problem is more in depth than we realise.Regardles of the 2005 season which was ok,we have stagnated behind other countries.The WRU continually keeps in post the same people in general, and the coaching staff regardless of who they are have the same people in charge.
Please can anyone enlighten me on why we have the same team manager who has been around when all around him have gone.
Why the Mike Ruddock affair wasnt cleaned up so everyone understood the reasons why he departed and why Gareth thomas was put infront of the cameras to answer questions which surely a team manager should have done.
Finally and I hope I speak for a majority of Welsh fans please oh please make sure that you THIS TIME put the right people in the correct posts.
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Now first off I'd like to say I'm sorry that Wales lost yesterday. I'm a fellow Celt and was shouting at the tele for your guys to show some composure and slow the game down - you didn't and you got beaten by Fiji at their own game, inevitably. If you had played a structured game and kept it tight, you would be in the QFs right now. That cannot be the fault of the coach, it is down to the leader on the field to influence. Gareth Thomas is an honest tryer who probably didn't deserve to be Welsh captain, I wouldn't even have picked him for the squad.
One thing I will say however is.. what were you expecting? I don't think the Welsh team is anywhere near as good as the Welsh public expect them to be. The pack is average at best and your lineout is a total shambles for a supposed top nation - how come they hadn't sorted that out? Don't they train!?! Your backs are a different kettle of fish, Peel, Hook and Shane Williams are superb players but aside from that, nothing to write home about. Put things in perspective, you lost a one-off game against a dangerous Fiji side because you got your tactics wrong on the day. The last 8 is the limit of the current Welsh team, as with Scotland and England.
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gareth thomas had a shocker. he should stay on 100 caps - he isn't a full back.
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One of the basic questions that has to be addressed is 'Has professionalism in Wales done away with passion?' When you saw the Fijians saluting their anthem they were all extremely focussed and their body language was filled with pride and passion. The same could be said for Argentina when facing France. I haven't seen passion and positive body language from Wales for some time.
I know that passion can be destructive at times but we must have a balance and not face games in the belief that we have the skills and that will suffice.
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What kind of coach not only agrees too, but also encourages his squad members to go out on the lash in this day and age, in the professional era?! It says it all for me, no wonder Wales did not perform. The biggest problem with welsh rugby at the professional level is the mentality of the players. Going out and getting slaughtered is acceptable for amateur, but NOT for professional, the quicker the players realise that professionalism is what is required in all aspects of their lives the better wales will be. However, when a coach does introduce an alcohol ban for the players ... well we all know what happened to Ruddock! A complete overhaul of players should be carried out, no pride no passion no following the rules then you're out! Regardless of who you are and what your position is in the squad! Nobody should be guaranteed a place and nobody should be bigger than the team like a certain player is now!
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All the talk within the Media for days before the match was Wales' forthcoming Quarter final against South Africa. I feel that the team went into yesterday's match with the same sentiments and forgot that they had to beat Fiji to get there.
Wales has the talent in droves but the Management has to take this on the chin as the selection for the match was suspect to say the least. Mike Phillips should have started at Scrum half as he was the in-form player and could have coped with Fiji's physicality a lot better than Dwayne Peel.
That First half was totally embarassing and showed the team's vulnarability, but credit for the never say die attitude early on in the first half to make a game of it.
Jenkins had to go but there is no 'I' in Management. What about the other architects of our downfall..?
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the next welsh coach is RICK OSHEA.
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JENKINS OUT! YES..BEST NEWS I'VE HEARD ALL YEAR.
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all of the coaching staff should go, especially nigel davies and mcbryde. get griffiths back for the defence.
in terms of the game, we didn't look up for it, just the same way as the english did against south africa, and everything kind of went the fijians way but to be fair to them, they capitalised on it. i agree with 234, the passion has gone. the hwyl needs to be brought back into welsh rugby.
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Firstly...well said DaveM (msg 224).
It seems obvious to me that our lack of performance on the world stage cannot be addressed until the state of club and grass roots rugby is addressed. The evidence is clear...plain as day - we have already had the coach that is, by all accounts, about to lead New Zealand to World Cup Glory. This begs the question "What difference will any other coach make?". The cold harsh truth is - here in Wales we simply don't have the players with the kind of savvy and instinct that the Southern hemispheres seem to produce.......and produce in depth.
What I do know is that we do, without question, have to look towards the Southern hemispheres for not only a quick fix to our national side but longer term solution to our NATIONAL GAME!! They seem to be doing something right. I bet shipping our stars out to super 12 for a couple of seasons would bear fruit. (I hope you get my point).
One last thing...does anyone feel that there is a large gap appearing between the fans of welsh rugby and our team? A kind of us and them mentality. Any thoughts on why this might be the case?
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Being English sometimes I think we have it bad. But the real humiliation is always left in reserve for the Welsh.
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When will the Welsh wake up and realise that it's not 1974?!
Lightweight, inconsistent and heading downhill until they address their structure from the bottom up.
Take a peek over the border lads and learn!!
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The WRU were quick out the blocks and sacked GJ Sunday morning, did they expect us to lose yesterday? It seems they were ready management don't make snap decisions like sacking the top man without debates and discussions. I think the mind of the WRU were made up after the Canada game. Let's hope the new coach has the balls to stand up to these prima donnas in the squad, the biggest of them all is Gareth Thomas. His exhibition on Scrum v should have resulted in the WRU banning him form playing for his country. It was plain to see Ruddock was too strict for some of the senior players who thought they were invincable after the 2005 grand slam. Dai Pickering is doing a good job as chairman no messing sack GJ before he gets crucified by the press.
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Wales need Sir Clive Woodward at the helm... ;)
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Forgive me if i am wrong but after the game when they were talking to Gareth Thomas it seemed to me as if it was a retierment speech 'I've had a lot of highs and lows in my career, its been a hell of a ride' it would be a huge shame if he left now due to an incompitent coach.
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Well played Fiji and good luck for the remaining games.
Yet again we only played for 20 minutes and made a host of very basic errors which quite frankly you wouldn't expect from a school side.
Sack the coach, yes, but where does buck stop, what about the people who employed him. It seems to me that what Wales realy need is a seriously professional administratiion not a bunch of boneheads wallowing in their own importance. Wales have had great coaches who haven't lasted need I say more. Lets say that we find a worldclass coach with vision and the energy to deliver, how long will it be before the "old fart brigade" find themselves outside their comfort zone and make things difficult. I'm sorry, I don't see a very bright future.
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We scored 5 tries to 4. We should have won the game by a 10 point margin. We played some good rugby. But the tactics were wrong and the intensity of our forward effort at the breakdown was powder puff. This is not new - it has been screaming at us for the past two years. Our forwards simply do not work hard or effectively enough. The packs from Georgia, Romania, Namibia,Italy, Argentina, Tonga... work their socks off all over the field but especially at the breakdown.
We have a few forwards who can cut the mustard AWJ, GJ, IG, IE, CH...but they are not playing as a pack. Looking forward I am not so pessimistic providing we get some top coaches in place who understand about technique and intensity.
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Why was Mike Phillips left on the bench after his performance last week? His physicality and sniping at the base of the scrum not to mention his dynamic running with the ball and strong defensive skills were needed against such a physical and free-running opponent as Fiji. Dwayne Peel is a very talented player but not on top of his game right now.
Well done Fiji!!
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Typical Welsh display. No effort, no enthusiasm, no leadership and no idea. Only when it's too late do the Welsh team try to play. Do they think that they are that good that they can give the opposition a head start? I can guarantee that they're not as good as they think they are. I think it's time the players and management started to act professional rather than the amateurs that they clearly are.
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Just saw the conference to oust Jenkins - got to feal sorry for him, but unfortunately he just wasn't up to the job - but his preparations especially the warm up against England was abysmal.Wales can play sparkling rugby which is a joy to watch- they have in my experience played the three most attractive games in recent history two aginst the all backs 2003 .04 and saturday match -
What to next? - start early - get the academy sorted out - train on the fitness levels, bulk our players ou, work at the basics , also the directors of the wru will have to adopt a different mindset when comes to decision making
ah well like your typical welsh supporter - we just left to gnash our teeth + shake our heads again
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Having just seen Alun Lewis at the press conference to announce the sacking of Gareth Jenkins, it strikes me a gross hypocrisy- typical of the WRU- that with one breath he says there is no blame to be attached to Jenkins - yet fails to acknowledge the shortcomings of the administrators in welsh rugby. If Lewis , Pickering and co had a shred of decency they would be joining Jenkins in the dole queue now!
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Wales missed a bunch of penalties, wasted a few try scoring opportunities, and actually only played well for a short period against a bigger more physical team who put in the performance of their lives - yet still almost won.
During that short period where they played well they showed the potential that they undoubtedly have - they are pretty much the same team that won the 2005 GRAND SLAM afterall (beating a not yet declined England and a strong Ireland and France).
Since Mike Ruddock departed, tactics, confidence and at times even the passion has seemed to be missing. Now Jenkins has gone, Wales need an experienced coach and support staff to get the most out of the players and take Wales back to the top of northern hemisphere rugby.
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Bluesboy - didn't you WATCH the first half against Japan? Philips was awful! And when he came on yesterday, our back play evaporated. If he wants to play like a flanker, start him in the pack!
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Clive Woodward, don't make me laugh, did you see the horlicks he made of the Lions.
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There seem to be some very short memories in the valleys. As Huw Richards writes in the Sunday Herald today 'For Wales this outweighs even the defeat by Samoa in 1991. They lacked leadership, intelligence and control - and kicked abysmally from the hand. Two years ago Wales had a gifted, young Grand Slam-winning team admirably organised by coach Mike Ruddock. This is the direct outcome of what happened subsequently when a group of players undermined Ruddock and the Welsh Rugby Union, failing in their duty as employers, did not support him. Happy with what you've achieved, boys?'
That 2005 side was a delight to watch - and I write as an Englishman - some of the best back play I have ever seen. Since Ruddock went we have witnessed a tragedy - both for Wales and for rugby. Its very plain waht has to happen now, and perhaps with Alfie out of the way it will.
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completely agree with comment 164,richie rich, who sums it up v well. Fiji had the bloodymindeness.
Mr Dickinson specsavers please
well done fiji,excellent rugby, and luck was with you in the laws/off ball incidents.
many teams in world rugby would have struggled against fiji yesterday, 1/2 tier alike.
proud of the Welsh comeback-one of the greatest and one of the greatest games ever i have no doubt
Good luck England/Scotland /Ireland-lets have some NH result. (not including the French-crowd yesterday were out of order while Wales kicked.)
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Martin williams, Shane williams and Colin charvis turned up for the game, the rest of the team arrived without the same commitment and unfortunatly the coaches had forgotten to tell the team who was their leader (OK Captain), In the world cup you need to put points on the board not kick away to touch when under the post. The decision to releve Gareth Jenkins of his position is correct but can we trust the Lewises and Pikarins to get it right next time.
Spelling mistakes "deliberate".
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I think that the old strip called SWANT in Viz magazine describes the current state of the Welsh rugby team - Special Weapons And No Tactics!
There's no doubt that we have the talent. We just need to remaster the basics and inject some intelligence into the way that the team plays. The "Welsh way" was always to build up a platform with the forwards, and then let the backs loose. We seem to have forgotten the first part of this equation.
I just wonder what miracles Toshack would be able to perform if we had this level of talent in our football team...
If we want to succeed, we need to recruit the best coaches regardless of cost. Start off with someone to sort out the lineout...
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WE HAD THE BEST COACH IN THE WORLD! AND WE SACK,T HIM (MR HENRY).WE HAD A GRAND SLAM COACH AND STABED HIM IN THE BACK.YET THE WRU INEPT ADMINISTRATORS ARE STILL THERE
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What has annoyed me about the whole of the Welsh performances in the RWC is the complete lack of professionalism.
i-no real consistent leadership on or off the field.
2- poor tactics, we should have played a tighter game to start with yesterday with a more physical selection and had the more creative players on the bench to mop up in the second half.
3- our players lack basic rugby "inteligence" and composure when the game plan needs changing-instead we had a bunch of wooden headless chickens whose basic skill levels leave a lot to be desired.The skills problem was obvious in all their matches.
4-how on earth can so called professionals not touch down behind the posts when they have the chance.
There is a lack of professionalism in the team, and that must be down to the coaching staff- what exactly have they been coaching.
Iam both angry, frustrated and feel that we have been badly let down.
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So who's next up for the job a mate of mine would like to see Phil Davies but a slightly different suggestion came up last night whilst talking to a few other people, John Kirwan anyone?
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The so called peoples choice failed as we knew he would.You players who forced Ruddock out should be ashamed of yourselves. To those of you who feel you are strars today don t forget you will be has been's tomorrow & may never reach the heights of Edwards,Davies,Bennet etc.
I am hurting at what Ihave seen for sometime now.Alfie grow up,Shane get rid of your white line feve Horseman stop givving away stupid penalties
Next manager please select a top of the range defensive coach.
TO THE PLAYERS (i wish that I had had a tenth of your talent) so put up or shut up.
Hurting welshman
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I always said, that Gareth Jenkins was not good enough, he was always the bridesmaid at Llanelli, never one anything outside Wales.
And I was disappointed when he was choosen for the Welsh coach.
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Another couple of things to change:
1. Our sponsor - unless we agree to use the more appropriate alternative logo "Brawn", as used in some matches. Lucky that sponsors names are not allowed to be printed on the shirts for the WC!
2. The white socks - whatever happened to our traditional red socks with white stripes?
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Amidst political tension, Rugby has been and will always unite this wonderful Nation we call Fiji...
Imagine a Coach just having to prepare a team within a space of 5 weeks and reaching the top 8
In Fiji, rugby loving die hard fans go to the extreme of either watching on tv or listening to the radio whenever the National side plays in an international event.
In remote areas, villagers have to wake up in the early hours of the morning walk up the hills with their generators and tv screens/radios, just to get a perfect reception to watch or listen to the Flying Fijians in action.
The thought of a teenager having to carry his granddad up the hills just because he also wanted to know of the action.
Fiji entered the game against Wales not only aiming for the Top 8 but knowing of the struggles back at home
and the need for the influence of a change and a an effort of putting a smile on everyones face...THEY JUST DID!!!!.
This will be the story for the week, forget work, forget school, forget politics forget everything just talk about Fiji booting Wales out of the 2007 Rugby World Cup....just like they say it in Fijian "Mate nai Lavo"...Every Fijian will know what that means...
Anyway congratulation boys and we will beat South Africa in the Quarters setting up a semi-final clash against Argentina...Moce Jo Wele Mele...
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All true Welsh supporters are understandably bitterly disappointed with the loss against Fiji, but why do we continue to dis-credit Fiji (along with Tonga & Samoa)of being non-worthy participants at the RWC 2007? Ex Welsh Internationals provide the best possible motivation for the opposition by predicting minimum, acceptable winning margins against the South Pacific rugby minnows!
Back in 1964, with the team packed with 'Welsh Greats', Wales just managed to hold out to win a pulsating match by 28 points to 22!
Some of those Welsh players of 64 are now highly paid rugby pundits heaping loads of criticism against our national squad. The question must be asked, 鈥楬ow well would they have performed against the Fiji team of 2007'?
We all need a reality check! We do not have the size or quality of player in our country to compete against the Polynesians. Just ask yourselves why do both New Zealand and Australia spend considerable effort & money to lure 'star' signings from Fiji, Tonga & Samoa and pack then into they鈥檙e squads? The modern game is about strength, stamina and speed and at present we are second rate in all these levels of performance and the chances are the gap will continue to grow.
Before we can begin to worry about beating the Southern Hemisphere top three, we must consistently beat the rest, which must surely be our next goal, starting with the 2008 Six Nations.
Andrew Phillips
Pembrokeshire
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I think Gareth Jenkins failure was not to appoint a world renound number 2. Instead he decided on appointing staff around him that were not really up to international rugby.
Lets look at it-
Nigel Davies, coached only at Llanelli Scarlets ?
Rowland Phillips (defence coach) Neath coach, Welsh premiership rugby ??
Robin Mcbride (forwards coach) Llanelli Scarlets ???
The only appointment he made that was pretty good was Neil Jenkins (kicking coach) the guy is a legend regarding kicking.
If he had brought in someone from outside his 'circle of friends' things might of worked out a lot better for him and Wales. 'Judge me on the world cup', I bet he wished he had'nt said that !!!
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for a tiny country with the total population of less than a million, i think we did really well!!
mind you, the fijians are not even paid, thy dont have any professional contract with the local RU...and to excel at this stage against one of the home nation, as a matter of fact, soundly and comprehensively beat Wales, is a major victory for rugby, esp, the minorities..!..wish Tonga had beaten england too...well done boys, we are proud of you,.. FOR FIJI EVER FIJI LET THE VOICES RING WITH PRIDE
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Matt Rowe, how cool are you?! I agree with everything you said. I'm Welsh, and it was good to read something that wasn't telling us how crap we played.
As it happens, I think our tries were blinders, and I'm still adamant that Gough's backside stopped that last try!! And as for that hoof Steven Jones got off that fijian player, that was downright digusting.
We obviously didn't play catastrophically, seeing as the score was so close, so those of you who are trying to find any reason you can to slate us grow up and take a look at yourselves.
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Sorry for GJ but he created his own downfall by the appointment of the most inept assistant coaches imaginable.
Our kicking game was and has been rubbish for ages (we have a kicking coach), our defence has been awful (we have a defence coach) and we have hookers who cannot throw the ball straight (we have a forwards coach who used to be a hooker!!).
Then Hook has one bad game and is dropped - does wonders for your confidence that does - he hasn't played well since.
Also who was our goal kicker yesterday? Why keep changing.
Anyway, please please don't start talking about Woodward as coach. Lucky with the group of players he had in 2003 - I could hace coached them and he showed his true colours when failing to coach the Lions.
Even worse would be Dai Young or anyone to do with the Cardiff Blues coaching staff. Turned a once proud club into a shambles. May win the odd game against second rate opposition, but put them up against any reasonable team and they play rubbish.
Sorry to say but we need a mass influx of southern hemisphere coaches to put us back on the road to compete with the 6 nations teams let alone the SH teams. Ruddock was great but look at his assistant coaches - they were all class!
From a sad welshman taking a load of flak 'cos I live in England.
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but if wales hed won (i.e. stephen jones didnt hit the post on 3 conversions!!!) all the players would have 9/10 out of 10!!!!!!!!
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Some appalling dirty play by the Fijians, but they deserved the win. I agree with the correspondent who said that a lot of players were overrated - but I thought Gareth Thomas and Martyn Williams shone despite a couple of errors (and the whole team was responsible for an error-strewn game). Don't underestimate your opposition, you just cannot let a Fijian take hold of the ball - their pace is phenomenal. Not sorry Gareth Jenkins is out, didn't think he was the right person for the job EVER! but heads should roll higher up than that - GET RID OF PICKERING!
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Just read the comments of yesterdays game and like many have seen some bad times over the past 30 years,but nothing to mirror the feeling of bewilderment that I feel 24 hours after yesterdays game.The simple truth is that this side was bullied off the park by a far more physical,(if somewhat illegal at times)team.I do not think that Wales did not try but everything seemed to go against them.The second and last try should not have been given.If you look closeley at the grounding of the second try you will notice that the try scorer never grounded it,well thats what I think anyway,but even after all I have said the best team did win, and a nation such as Wales should be able to beat teams like Fiji--how times change eh.Anyway give us 12 months and we will be world beaters again.Things change very quickly in sport just ask Graham Henry.
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202. At 10:20 AM on 30 Sep 2007, r.stroud wrote:
"Following the ignominy of defeat to Fiji, it is inevitable that the inquest will assume a scale of epic proportions. I offer one simple observation - at the end of the game, the Fijians gathered together in prayer."
Out of all the above posts this post by r. stroud hits the nail right on its head.
"-at the end of the game, the Fijians gathered together in prayer."
Have faith in God.
Todays Fijians, Tongans and Samoans are a God loving people. They play hard but they love God...they have faith in Him. Win or lose their faith is strong. This is what binds them and makes them one.
You will always see them before and after a match giving thanks to Almighty God for the privilege just to live and to play.
Have faith in God.
This is something that made the United Kingdom great many years ago. Once a nation strong in faith sent missionaries to the islands and passed their Christian faith on to the natives but now sadly they have discarded what once made them strong and opted for a faithless existence...most believing now in the pop culture and the never ending drive for more money, big houses, and pop idol status. God is no longer in the mix...He has been forgotten.
But now is the moment...God is now calling you all back to Him. Have faith in Him through His Son Jesus Christ. Confess your sins, Repent and turn back and He will forgive you. Trust in Him.
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the bottom line is that the game was lost by poor kicking at the posts.
Had just one of those missed kicks gone home then we would have been able to kick for a win at the end.
Its very harsh that Gareth Jenkins has borne the blame for what was a poor result by Stephen Jones and to a lesser degree Hook.
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Compare the Isle of the Fair to the Isle of the Mighty:
With 6 minutes left on the clock, after a hugely disappointing tournament, and needing 20 points to qualify for the next round, you could hear "Fields of Athenry" ringing round the ground.
Much to admire in the way the Irish handle adversity.
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Exactly where are the Fiji ratings?
typical underestimation of the Fiji team by the media. I fully expected it to be a hard fought match and Fiji wanted it more.
If anything the media underestimated the talent and heart from the Fiji team and with articles like these we wonder why it continues.
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The WRU summoned it up today with, serious questions need to be asked, a club coach was never destined to work at international level as the stats have proved 6 / 20 games, GJ should not be the only one being reviewed the entire coaching staff, WRU board and even some of the players needs addressing.
A very poor performance from Wales maybe we need to start from scratch for welsh rugby,
A VERY HEARTBROKEN WELSH FAN
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Honestly boys, if Hook and Jones had slotted over the straight forward kicks they missed yesterday none of this nonsense about 'physicality' and 'being bullied' would be an issue or written about and we would have won comfortably. All anyone would have done was acknowledged it as a feature of the Islander's game, fair play to them for giving it a good crack and what a 'great game'. Harsh reality is Jones and Hook cost us the QF and Jenkins his job.
Wales made some horrible errors, but none more so than missing penalties and conversions. We scored 5 tries and lost, how can that happen!?!?!!!! We're so fickle and blind to the truth it's unreal.
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Oh booo hooo... I can't believe some of the Welsh fans complaining that they don't have enough depth, that they don't have a world class coach, and that the referee was too lenient, or that they lacked a proper preparation. It's time to fess up and admit that they lost to a superior team, with superior handling, a superior running game, and overall more naturally gifted team. Wales has 10 times the amount of funding, depth in players, and enormous depth and potential in terms of the level of competition available in club rugby, not to mention professionalism and sponsorship. For Fiji to beat Wales is a tremendous achievement, given all the difficulties that the fiji rugby union has to overcome, and the difficulties that the Fijian coaches face in assembling a team and securing releases for their overseas based players. I encourage Wales and other tier 1 nations to have a piece of humble pie, and to promote and encourage the development of the game in the South Pacific region, because this was one of the most brilliant games in the history of the World Cup, any neutral fan would agree!!
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if both teams have utter faith in a god, and say their prayers, does that mean their matches will always be a draw?
Or does their god play favourites (or the bookies)?
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Fuji are a good side and all the southern smaller nations are getting better every year.
They have had one of the best, sometimes the best sevens side for many years and it was only a matter of time before it was moved onto the 15 man game.
Wales and the rest of the home nations must learn from this because in years to come the likes of Fuji, Argentina,will push them down the rankings list on merit by beating them regularly
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By the way the Argentinians play, we should be looking at Patagonia for players!
I was at every Wales match, the opposition teams were all warming up like mad, the welsh slouched on, sat and had a team photograph, wandered off ,then came out for a short spell of non contact ten a side. Then they ambled off. Only to wake up 20 odd points down at half time.....
The post about the irish support, take your point but the French support for Fiji, the noise when welsh kicks were taken and the bands playing irelevant tunes and the far too frequent mexican waves, it was difficult to get anything other than "Wales" going!
Sorry Alfie, you're well past your sell-by-date. And Hooky is never, ever going to be a big hitting international inside centre.
I think John Kirwan would be a really interesting choice as coach, so would Eddie Jones...
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Well maybe I got it wrong. It was only the two tries against a 14 man squad. Still doesn't negate the fact around getting the ball closer to the posts. I can admit I have been wrong, but I have yet to see all the Irish and Welsh fans admit they have been talking rubbish over the last few years. Always banging on about how great their rugby is and how much better than England they are. Only one competition counts and that is the world cup. England are through to the QF's where are the Wales and Ireland. Oh yeah on a plane!!!!!
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dear blog owner very disappointed that you did not publish my reply to some of your negative writers about fijis victory against wales.my objective was to educate the nothern hemisphere fans of what fijians are all about happy go lucky.hope you give my letter a chance.my blog reply was at about 9.30 on the 29th september thanks
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The Fiji Squad are paid F$350 a week which converts to about 108 Pounds Sterling each .
This means the squad of 22 that played Wales received 2376 Pounds for the week prior to their win .
Fiji paid out about 339.4 Pounds all up for 22 players and 80 minutes against Wales. That is 11.2 Pounds a point !
Put that into perspective .....
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Fiji absolutely deserved the win. Gareth Jenkins obviously (and rightly) pays the price but let's hope that the players take their share too. Time for many of the big names to move on. The notion of a one dimensional "Welsh Way" has been exposed.
Let's hope the WRU appoint and empower a decent coach - no place for player power. Focus on the foundations - a young squad with equal emphasis on forwards and backs.
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Give any of the three south pacific nations the budget of the WRU and you will have them playing like the All Blacks who love to steal our players!
Believe it or not Fiji rugby union sought help from the Fiji government to help provide funds for them to reach the world cup! Give us a dollar and we would spend hours deliberating on how to spend it. Pacific island nations don't have the millions as well devloped rugby nations but money can't buy pride and passion that Fiji showed to win on the day.
Australia, South Africa and New Zealand love to bully the pacific nations. On the day we were just taking out some frustration.
As a fijian i am proud of their achievement but we in the islands just have raw talent and no technical skills to develop the passion of the game so if any of you million rugby unions got loose change for we islanders to develop our rugby that would much appreciated.
we surely would love to teach All Blacks who steal our players a lesson and give them sore ribs.
Heads up Wales....come to Fiji and enjoy our hospitality....rugby should be enjoyed...and we love playing on the white sandy beaches.... its only rugby...
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Its been a Blessing my country Fiji to create such as upset to a country as Wales. For us the locals here, winning the game against Wales gentlemen, is not a supprise.Our reknown Flying Fijians know they have a duty to play and they did play it well.We have another big upset this coming weekend, and that is to create history and bring South Africa down.There is nothing impossible to anybody who has set goals and has kept winning at heart. For the Welsh rughby fans,thanks for the support,you can try harder next time around. As for the Flying Fijians, keep God first,nothing is impossible. God Bless Fiji
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I grew up in Wales in the 1970s, naturally assuming that the national team would win most of the games they played. This they did. I lived through the 80s, moving to live in England at the end of that decade, and remember all too well the decline in Welsh rugby despite the efforts of some top-class players, and the ribbing I took as a result. In recent times I have been disappointed and moved to tears by some defeats on the field, and yesterday's loss to Fiji is no exception.
However, to read some of the comments posted above, and the opinion of Phil Bennett in the Western Mail (鈥淲e haven鈥檛 got world class players like New Zealand and we are in the second division at the moment. Let鈥檚 take that as fact,鈥 said Bennett), along with other journalists, almost makes me ashamed to be Welsh. Phil Bennett and his contemporaries were greats, of that here is no doubt, but the game has changed significantly over 30 years. Many talk as if the Fijian squad was a puny, under-achieving bunch of schoolkids. What I saw was a team who could see no good reason why they shouldn't win the World Cup(Ireland have suffered the same fate today at the hands of the Pumas).
There are clearly problems with the Welsh Game, but this will never be improved when the players are faced with an onslaught of blame and negativity from the press and "supporters" alike.
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Noone gave Fiji a chance, and we showed that on a good day we can beat anyone.
i dont expect fiji to beat south africa, should it happen, whole fiji nation will go mad.
for fiji getting to the quarters is like winning the world cup on its own.
fiji fiji fiji
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well im from fiji and from my POV,i think you guys played well.but panicked in the first have and further more in the 2nd half.but hey no one is to blame individually but the team and people along with them.
im happy we made it that far.you know why cause we havnt reached the quarters since 20 years back.wales have beaten us in the last 8 encounters.our country is not that developed and we only had 3 months to prepare for the rugby world cup.imagine 3 months,2 rugby facilities,a club coach,mostly local rugby players,a few debutants and alot of heart.dont worry there is always 4 years time again.
till then god bless and hope we do well in the quarter finals and so on.
go flying fijians
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one rugby critic on satanta sports after the canada fiji game was asked if fiji could win the wales fiji game. "not a chance" he said.
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"I don't think Fiji will be a threat. That is one of the sad things in the modern world of professional rugby that the small get smaller and the big get bigger,"
quote from Nick Farr-Jones.
ha ha ha! Die hard Fijian fan here, I would just like to vakatchi(mock) one of the so called experts who supposedly had the Fiji-Wales figured out before it even was played.To Nick-Farr Jones...Matamu(in your face boy!)Your prediction failed to pass, and Now you have to eat your own words.I have a pointer for you Nicky Boy.When making public statements, be diplomatic enough to have room to fall back on yourself in case you are wrong.Your statement reeks of arrogance and sheer ignorance.The rugby world knows you are an idiot now so go choke on your glasses.Fiji got a lot bigger now , and your mouth got a lot smaller.Due credit to Wales for their valour.
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I have to say i don't think the boys did ever so badly, they had good attacking lines, showed they could score tries from backs or forwards, and were dominant at set pieces. What cost Wales the game was their apparent lack of desire for the ball when fiji were in possession, they seemed perfectly happy just to tackle and then wait for fiji to gather themselves and run at thyem again, as if expecting them to make a mistake and for them to get the ball that way. look at the best teams in the world at the moment and what defines them is their aggression at the breakdown, counter rucking and never letting up the pressure on the opposition! Just seemed at the breakdown the boys lost their passion - following coaches instruction?? or more alarmingly players lacking the brain power to determin what personal and collective responsibility they had to take on in such a crucial game?!?!?
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I have a question? how did a Fiji player not win the man of the match award? Nicky Little, Seru Rabeni, Delasau and Raulini were all awesome... in fact every1 as a team was exceptional...
our lineouts were great... if only we could scrum... ah well still
Go Fiji Go
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FIJI THE WAY RUGBY SHOULD BE PLAYED FIJI THE WAY THE WORLD SHOULD BE THIS GREAT NATION OF HAPPY PEOPLE STRIVE TO BE THE BEST EVEN THOUGH THE DIVERSITY THEY FACE IN ACHIEVING THE GOAL.SHERE DETERMINATION,PRIDE AND PASSION IS THE INGREDIRENTS OF SUCCESS OF THE FIJIAN TEAM.WE MUST STAND IN PRIDE OF THE GAME IN GIVING OUR FIJIAN BROTHERS CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE AND NOT REDICULE THERE PERFORMANCE FOR THE SAKE OF BEING BAD LOSERS.WALES YOU WERE JUST NOT UP TO PAR WITH THE PACIFIC ISLANDERS,AND KEEP IN MIND OUR ISLANDER BROTHERS TONGA AND SAMOA.WE IN THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE RULE.I HOPE YOU GUYS GET IT THAT THE BEST TEAM WON.REMEMBER THERE IS A SAYING IN FIJIAN "MAI NA MAI" "COME AND KEEP COMING" THATS THE HEART AND SOUL OF OUR GAME.THE TONGANS GAVE YOU LIMA THE CHIROPRACTOR FOR 5 WORLD CUPS,WE FIJI GAVE YOU RABENI THE BONE CRUSHER.THATS JUST THE BEGINING.GOOD LUCK FIJI IN YOUR NEXT GAME AGAINST SOUTH AFRICA."PASSION BUT NO COMPASSION" HARTAL ALL THE WAY BOYS.
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I was at the match in Nantes and it was just fantastic seeing those red shirts under the posts so often in the first half.
As good a player as he is I loathe Gareth Thomas. I can just see that he'd be the bully of the team, like the kid who leads all his classmates against a happless teacher.
Fiji played very, very well on saturday and can be rightly proud and not because of them being the plucky underdogs, but because they have been superb.
Good luck to Fiji, I hope you play as well against your next opponents as you did against your last, you deserve the plaudits.
Bring back Ruddock, kicking and screamin WRU (who mstly need to be replaced by people not living in the past).
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In response to Post 197:
Martyn Williams ran himself ragged all game, and sprinted almost the length of the field to score that interception try, he shouldn't need to run under the posts with a "world class" goal kicker in the side! Nugget is probably the only person in the squad who really deserves to wear the three feathers. Wales will be an even poorer team now that he has decided to retire.
The truth of the matter is that Jones and Hook were just not good enough. Hook looked out of sorts at 12 and should have played instead of Jones at 10, Philips should have started at 9.
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I have read most of the comments already posted, so far we've blamed the ref, we've blamed GJ, we've blamed Fijian " tackling ", etc, etc. Why do we keep whingeing and blaming everyone else for our, ie WRU and player shortcomings. As professional players why can't we read games and change tactics to suit. Half time is too late, we could have and should have posted at least two decisive scores in the first 10 minutes. Let's be honest, we all knew what Fiji were going to do and how they were going to play, we all said " play a structured game, wear them down, don't let them play 7s ". What did we do, play 7s with them!!!. Having watched Welsh rugby for over 40 years, no I'm not going to look through misty eyes at the 70s, we are still selecting players by the shirt on their back ( sorry Scarlets, but it's a fact ). Every Jack and his dog now wants to restructure the game in Wales as a consequence of Saturday. I'm sure restructuring is required, but why didn't we do this from a position of strength 2 years ago, after winning the Grand Slam?. Complacency maybe, the same complacency which cost us on Saturday.
Where do we go from here? Who is going to take up the poison chalice? The Welsh candidates are few and far between, Lyn Jones is the obvious one, but he would rock too many boats, maybe this is why he has been by passed before. The Southern hemisphere coaches have stolen a huge march on the Northern hemisphere, we need to look that way. What about JK, he did a superb job with Italy is helping Japan make great strides.
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Welsh players don't wear their shirt with pride or passion anymore. Jenkins can't take all the blame, the players should take a long hard look at themselves and justify wearing the RED SHIRT
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I was at the game on Saturday as well...we didn't deserve a win and the Fijians did. Good Luck to them. It didn't stop myself enjoying the tremendous atmosphere in Nantes b4 and after the game. Here's to 2011.
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Sylvester Joseph:
Many people on here have posted graciously conceding that Fiji were the better team on Saturday, and offered their sincere congratulations, despite how much losing hurt. Try being a gracious winner, and you will win more friends than your ill mannered rant will garner.
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I, like many of my fellow welshfolk am very down and gutted by Wales performances of late but even so we as a nation and supporters of the game have to look past the whingeing and stand up and be counted.
The biggest mistake the WRU made to date was losing Mike Ruddock and this started the rot. I don't buy the notion of player power but I do have a sneeking suspicion that perhaps a few more experienced players held court in the dressing room on more than one occassion! COMMENTS Please!
Yes, the regional structure and WRU structure itself needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. I think it's endemic of our culture and mind set that we feed off minor victories E.g. '1 grand slam in 25 years' etc..etc... and sit back on our laurels.
The bar must be raised again and continous improvement can only be achieved through a committed effort and clear direction from the board.
Jenkins was the popular choice by the majority of the public but I always had my doubts. What had he actually achieved before taking up the reigns?
Forget about negativity and start focusing on positive action. The public must get behind the boys 100% and front up to the fact that the coach they wanted did not deliver.
I feel very sorry for Gareth Jenkins as he was contending with the men in suits I fear. Remember the farcical way they dealt with the Ruddock affair.
So unprofessional it was embarassing to watch it unfold from the Scrum V interview with Gareth Thomas and beyond.
My biggest worry of all is that there just isn't a welsh coach with enough experience to take the role forward. And I suspect until there is a huge change in the structure of the WRU which has been emphasised time and time again we ('WE' as a rugby loving nation) will not fulfill the real potential we have.
Despite the Fijian dominence and power I still believe that we have the talent coming through to keep improving and perhaps this is the ideal time to draw up some new battle plans.
Any coach coming in to replace Jenkins has his work cut out unless he gets full commitment from the WRU. Not just lip service but full backing and by-in to the plans.
There is no need for knee jerk reactions here just a calm and professional approach. We have to develop a rugby team and structure we can be proud to show off to the world.
It has to embrace every element of professionalism and exude quality from the foundations up.
It's not just about money either. Ask Fiji about funding?
It's about the right people with a very real drive, vision and commitment for continous improvement.
BTW thanks to Alfie and Martyn Williams for 100% commitment to Wales.
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Well id like to say that although wales have played terrbile this world cup, i dont feel its a lack of ability in the team. look at shane williams and dwayne peel martyn williams please look we do have the team, it was a lack of ability from the coach and the welsh board messing around our coaches as they wont let them pick the team when isnt that the reason we have a coach!!?!?! it all is shown by the fact that out of 20 games in charge gareth jenkins won 6 and we shouldnt have a reputation like that, we should of put some of these teams away and sailed through to the quater finals. So saying things like a pay cut or loosing there jobs is again a little silly done you all think??? look behind the obvious.
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Well id like to say that although wales have played terrbile this world cup, i dont feel its a lack of ability in the team. look at shane williams and dwayne peel martyn williams please look we do have the team, it was a lack of ability from the coach and the welsh board messing around our coaches as they wont let them pick the team when isnt that the reason we have a coach!!?!?! it all is shown by the fact that out of 20 games in charge gareth jenkins won 6 and we shouldnt have a reputation like that, we should of put some of these teams away and sailed through to the quater finals. So saying things like a pay cut or loosing there jobs is again a little silly dont you all think??? look behind the obvious.
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In reply to comment 246, look over the border. Yes we can learn alot looking over there. Population 55 million, largest player pool in the world. World cups 1, future world cups 0. Record against Wales L51-W.53. Population wales 2.8 million. Record NZ population 5 million W6-L22. Playing style 1 dimensional, Rugby songs 1.Average Twickenham supporters Rugby years playing 0. Famous English Threequarters 0.England team to play australia.
15.M. Catt (oap)
14. Phil Vickery
13. Ben kay
12. A. Farrel
11. L.Dallaglio
10. Sir Johnny (If I feel alright)
9. A. Dumersal
8. N. Easter
7. L. Moody
6. M. Corry
5. S. Borthwick
4. S. Shaw
3. M. Stevens
2. M. Regan
1. A. Sheridan
Game plan simple.
Yes we should all look accross the border for inspiration.
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I feel sorry for Jenkins. He needed to be sacked but should never been given the job in the first place. He gave his all and no one can fault his commitment. However, this does not get you a victory over the All Blacks!
I think their is a need for Jenkins in Welsh Rugby, but not as manager. I would rather have him any day as opposed to pickering and all the 'hanger ons'
The upper echelons of the WRU need to justify their positions (which will be difficult) and the ones that remain should go 'cap in hand' to Mike Ruddock.
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Well I think it is now time for the baby to be thrown out with the bath water!
Martyn Williams and Gareth Thomas are true professionals and the fact that they have retired now from international rugby will hurt the WRU. What they need to do is to teach passion and common sense, At local rugby levels I have played with 10`s who could have controlled that game, you have to realise that in a 15 a side match you will not beat arguably the best 7`s team in the world by adopting 7`s rugby tactics. The south Sea islanders are no mugs and Wales think they are better than they are! Shame on you so called professionals. Thank you Martyn and Gareth, you were let down. Cymru am Byth
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well well from grand slams to grand chumps. what on earth happened? credit to fiji and this is a victory for rugby and the minnows. i hope that means the RWC will stay 20 nations. had the islanders kept all there players instead of giving them to aussi and new zealand then they would proberly be the best team in the world. hook has had a poor world cup which is a real shame but he should play at 10 with henson at 12. besides charvis and thomas(whos proberly played his last game in a red shirt) was poor.
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If it's any consolation to the Welsh, that's the best Fiji have played for years.
They targeted this game and caught more than the Welsh by surprise.
Wales seem to have a weakness facing Pacific Island teams (and the bad luck to end up in the wrong group). This because the Welsh have preferred an open game to show their talent for running the ball, rather than dominate up front or focus on defence. Give a Pacific Island team a chance up front and any room and they will take the game to you.
Scotland (not as good as Wales) would probably beat Fiji.
"Wales" should survive this, after all the team is and will be still competitive in the 6 Nations.
The question is, how to build a Cup team that can contest the semi-finals in 2011?
After all, if a Welshman can be a loose forward and be one of the stars on a Lions tour (Ryan Jones) maybe there can be others.
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I am a Welshman living in Englan and I am very pleased to see some balanced opinions on here and not so much of the cheery "Welsh bashing" that I was expecting.
I don't know what the answer is but the 6 nations has just become a second division championship! Look at the fixtures and you 'll see that the most likely semi finalists will ALL be southern hemishpere clubs.
Italy - worse than normal
France clueless against Argentina
Ireland - generally hopeless all tournament
England - looked lost without Jonny with him OK ut it's a one man show
Scotland - got lucky that Italy were in their group
Wales - awfull first half performance in pretty much every game
WAKE UP!
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BAd luck chaps - At least you can now all get behind England and cheer us on against Australia..............
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My hearty congratulations to Wales for playing a wonderful game of rugby, and for lifting Fiji's performance to a new and exciting level.
It is my hope that the South Africa-Fiji game will bring out the best in both teams, with a totally unbiased referee (and touch judges) letting the game flow.
Let's showcase the game of Rugby to the world in the best possible way we can, and may the best team win, which I sincerely believe is Fiji, since Coach Ilivasi Tabua effectively had to prepare the Fiji team in 9 months. All other teams had 4 years preparation.
Long live rugby!
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#220 - I think you are right about the Grand Slam year. It was a great achievement but when you look back at Robinson's England, Matt Williams' Scotland and the Italians, the competition was pretty weak. It may have covered up the weaknesses of the Welsh forwards to compete against bigger more physical teams and given undue complacency to some of the backs.
Wales certainly contributed some great running rugby in a wonderful game, but would you not swap a little of Williams' stardust and the 'Welsh way' for a sound tactical plan and a QF place?
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Firstly let me get this out in the open so there can be no doubt鈥 I鈥檓 English. There you go you can now disregard my opinion as I obviously have no idea about rugby or anything else for that matter鈥.
However for what it鈥檚 worth I don鈥檛 reckon things are as catastrophic as we鈥檙e led to believe. I think it鈥檚 down to playing the wrong tactics against the wrong opposition. I actually believe that the 鈥淲elsh Way鈥 as it has been called is akin to the Rugby philosophy embraced by the All Blacks, Australia and South Africa and embodied by the technically limited but immensely skilled Islanders. It is fundamentally different to the style of play adopted by most NH teams, the worst culprits of course being my own nation. I believe that the Welsh playing as they did would have run England, Ireland and Scotland close and in all probability beaten them. However, trying it against Fiji was simply naive. All you need to learn is when to be pragmatic and when to use your obvious flair. You have some gems that I wish England had. We鈥檇 have Peel, Hook, S Williams and Shanklin for a start.
I don鈥檛 think rugby ability cost you, stupidity did. In my book that鈥檚 easier to fix. England have much bigger mountains to climb like how to pass to each other and how to run around things rather than into them鈥︹..
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Thank God that the last 2 years have finally come to an end . Optimism is now back in my veins as Gareth Jenkins eroded the team and desire like Southern Down cliffs. Don't employ a welshman unless it's Ruddock. If anyone thinks that bringing on Michael Owen against those monsters we were playing they should never manage a team again.
Bye Gareth Jenkins and thanks alot for taking us back to 1997
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Wales were outgunned and out played in the first 20 minutes, they need to remember that rugby is played over 80 minutes and not 40, when will we learn that its no good chasing a game in the second half, yes I agree the play at the start of the second half was breath taking, but why can't we play like that for the whole game??? Another comment also made was in relation to Shane Williams showboating, I totally agree, stop this nonsense of looking good, just put the ball under the posts, same for Martyn Williams, they both had ample time to place the ball properly and give the kickers more of a chnace of hitting the target. As much as I admire Shane Williams he also needs to remember his size especially against the bulk of the southern hemisphere sides, keep playing that way and you will get dumped! On a pleasing note though, the front 5 were awesome in the scrum and Charvis and Popham certainly gave their all, with like said previously, some very cheap late hits, I'm not sure that the ref helped Wales' cause (i'm not blaming him!) but the yellow card should have been shown more than it was!
Roger Lewis should go cap in hand to Mike Ruddock, he's the best coach we've had in years (although given that Henry did the base work!) and I'm sure he could turn our great players into legends!
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I believe that Wales lost against Fiji because a group of senior players, abetted by a weak-willed executive, were allowed to undermine the right man for the job. The St Valentine's Day Massacre of 2006 cost the Welsh team and the Welsh people much more than they knew at the time, but it's obscenely wrong for the same people who were involved in Mike Ruddock's departure to pass the buck by sacking Gareth Jenkins without at least allowing the man to leave France with the boneheaded team that he had selected. There are far more culpable people than Jenkins, top of the list being Alfie, with the men of integrity, Roger Lewis, David Pickering and the other members of the WRUFC not far behind. I thought the Old Farts at Twickers were bad, but if there was an award for treating the coach shoddily Wales wouldn't have any competition.
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A great game for the neutral, some fantastic tries and lots of running rugby, very enjoyable! As an Englishman I can鈥檛 pretend I didn鈥檛 have a little smile across my face at the final whistle though鈥
However, if European clubs will insist on bringing Pacific Islanders and Argentinians over to bolster their squads for such punishing league/cup schedules and expose them to and familiarise them with Northern Hemisphere rugby, then we really shouldn鈥檛 be very surprised when they start beating us more regularly! This wasn't the first and most certainly will not be the last 'shock' defeat to the lesser sides of the southern Hemisphere...
There won鈥檛 be a single Northern Hemisphere side in the Semis 鈥 which is dreadful considering 鈥渨e鈥檙e鈥 hosting the tournament!!!
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Communication and Respect or lack there of would certainly spring to mind, players selected to play for the Welsh National side should play with their heart as they did in the seventies, has professionlism changed players attitudes that much that they as employees dictate to their employers. Pull your heads in and do the job that you have been privileged and selected to do. Respect the coach and your fellow team members whoever they may be, and with all the available talent there is in Wales then we might just might be able to compete with the top national teams. Red Eye Perth WA
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This is what Nicly Little said after the game to Fiji Times:
"I know there have been one or two big hits and a few people have had a moan about that,' Little said.
But isn't that part of the game? It's not all about technical scrummaging, line-outs, miss-moves and all that, it's about being honest and committed. We were exactly that on Saturday and we got our rewards.
"Wales have reacted by sacking their coach, haven't they? I find that a little harsh. He wasn't on the field on Saturday; there were 15 players who needed to front up as we did. Don't blame the coach that's easy.'
- very well said, isnt it?
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To all the Welsh Rugby Fans....every rugby nation has its ups and downs...what matters most is getting up when you're down..enough of the blame game its not gonna get any one any where,its about realising the problem and offering positive solutions...Believe you me, Fiji rugby has been down this road countless times,we've learnt from our mistakes and we've realised that finger pointing will get you nowhere,offering realsitic solutions will.......Good luck to the WRU in 2008 and beyond..
Moce from Fiji..
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Excuses excuses and more excuses!!!
A Fijian friend told me that the Fiji team players get an equivalent of 25 pounds a day at the rugby world cup. Despite this they had more guts,determination and desire to win...
Forget about the high tackles and late charges....Wales lacked the will to win. The only time they ever looked to playing real rugby was when Fiji were down to fourteen men.... let the truth be known...they outplayed us in all departments of the game....
hear ye hear ye....
malo fisi!!!!
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WALES - Do you need someone to talk to?
Text Samaritans on 07725 90 90 90 (UK) or 0872 60 90 90 (Republic of Ireland).
It doesn't matter who you are or what your situation is. ...
www.samaritans.org.uk/
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I WAS THERE.you may get TONGA in 4 years time. if you qualify
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Remember at the height of Welsh power when they won the Grand Slam in 2005, Fiji lost against Wales and IN CARDIFF by a single point....surely they should have at least sensed a loss was not to distant in the future. Every man and his dog wrote Fiji off from the start. Gave no respect to Tonga, Argentina and Samoa for this world cup.
The winds of change are here, NH so called superpower teams look pathetic in this tournament. No pride, no passion, just a lot of money looking ever so more like spoilt rich european football teams.
Its simple, SH have no respect for NH who have forgotted what the rugby code is all about. And they are getting their grassroot lessons this RWC 07
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