Advance Australia unfair (103)
- 1 Oct 07, 04:09 PM
Thank God for
If the chief executive of the Australian Rugby Union hadn鈥檛 put it so succinctly, we would never have known. "It doesn't matter whether it's cricket, rugby union, rugby league 鈥 we all hate England,"
As a statement of the bleedin鈥 obvious, it鈥檚 one of which Basil Fawlty would be proud.
In recent times Ronan O鈥橤ara and Imanol Harinordoquy, among a whole host of others, have uttered similar sentiments.
Crowds at England鈥檚 last two matches, at Stade de la Beaujoire in Nantes and the Parc des Princes in Paris, have backed up the theory put forward by head coach Brian Ashton that there won鈥檛 be any neutrals at England鈥檚 matches.
In fact, several supporters were seen at the Parc wearing T-shirts proclaiming their affiliation to the Gwent branch of the Tongan Supporters Club.
So what, in the build-up to is an Englishman to do?
Perhaps, given the bizarre modern demand for public apologies for things that happened hundreds of years ago, we should say we are sorry that some of our ancestors sent some of their ancestors - most of them criminals - to live in one of the most beautiful countries in the world?
Perhaps we should be flippant, and trot out the old lyric;
鈥淭he English, the English, the English are best. I wouldn鈥檛 give tuppence for all of the rest鈥
Perhaps we should fight clich茅 with clich茅. An extraordinary anti-England article in an Australian newspaper during the last World Cup stereotyped all Englishmen as
That鈥檚 about as true as suggesting all Aussies are either called Bruce or Sheila, wear corks dangling from their hats, and spend their days either surfing or lazing around on the beach, tossing prawns onto the 鈥渂arbie鈥 and swilling vast quantities of undrinkable ice-cold lager.
Perhaps we should regurgitate the old joke about the legendary reply by an Englishman when asked by arrivals at Sydney Airport 鈥滻 didn鈥檛 know it was compulsory鈥.
Perhaps we should have a go back; former England coach whenever one of his Australian counterpart Eddie Jones鈥 digs was reported by the media.
It made for great copy, which is why John O鈥橬eill鈥檚 comments have been so eagerly seized on by the press and will be used by the England camp as motivation - as if any were needed ahead of Saturday鈥檚 showdown in Marseille.
Complain about the insults, you鈥檙e a whingeing pom. Rise above them, you鈥檙e an arrogant pom. Whatever you do, you鈥檙e a pommy so-and-so.
But as Martin Johnson and his men discovered in Australia four years ago, it鈥檚 infinitely better to be a than a whingeing one.
The Aussie papers, on the Monday morning after that World Cup Final victory, for all the , 鈥渂oring鈥, 鈥渋s that all you鈥檝e got 鈥 insults they had dished up all tournament, and acknowledged that the Wallabies had been beaten by a better side.
Reading that, you鈥檇 have been forgiven for thinking that Australians were actually generous, tolerant, unchauvinist, sportsmanlike and discerning.
As I say, thank God for John O鈥橬eill.
Alastair Hignell is a former England rugby international who commentates on rugby union for Radio 5 Live. He is covering England at the World Cup. 5 Live's full broadcast schedule is here.
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Have you really not got anything better to write about 5 days before a cracking weekend of rugby?
Blogs really are ruining sports journalism.
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I'm just glad that the match is between England and Australia. If it were between Tonga and Australia, I would not feel compelled to watch it. But England and Australia have a lengthy history, encompassing, amongst other things, two victories apiece in the matches in which they have met each other in the Rugby World Cup.
As regards the neutrals and their anti-English stance, this will not have a bearing on the result. That will be determined by who plays best on the day of the Australia - England quarter-final. The odds favour Australia. But, as many have commented, anything can happen in eighty minutes of rugby and the main thing is to be still alive in the tournament.
Unfortunately, my team (Ireland) are not even in the quarter-final mix. But I'm looking forward to the England-Australia encounter with relish. On the basis of the competing skill levels of the two teams, I expect Australia to win. But, if England manage to raise their game at the weekend and win the quarter-final, then no one should begrudge them their success. Life is riddled with far too many begrudgers.
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Well said Alastair. I think everyone else in the rugby world (Welsh, Scots, Irish, Aussies, Kiwis, French and SAFAs etc etc etc) should give up hating England!
After all there are some humble English men around, who arent totally disagreeable. I know at least one, but then again he doesnt like rugby!
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Good old John O'Neill. Such a pleasant chap.
I unfortunately think Australia are going to get their wish when they play England - despite the improvements England have made in the last two matches, Australia are just too powerful and consistant enough not to win this one.
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all i can say is travelling back to circular quay from the telstra stadium in 2003 after the final i shook hands with probably 200+ aussie guys and kissed probably the same amount of girls. if there was any overt "hatred" of england they all kept it very well hidden. and the next day out at clovelly having lunch we heard plenty of aussies talking between themselves about how disgusted they were with john howard for "chucking the poms' winners medals round their necks".
presumably the 2 johns - howard and o'neill - think this talk/behaviour resonates with ordinary aussies. i can safely promise them - they're wrong
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surely if this was an englishman saying this or abusing australian culture then there would be a massive outcry of racism or other such nonsense. Should not really be surprised tho, not english not punished, Always the way!!
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Who cares what the other nations think? Ireland, Wales - er, where are they now? Australia - er, which team came out tops when it really mattered last time? As for the "revenge" match this coming weekend: who cares? Australia will win, we all know that, against an inferior England team. Is that really worth shouting about if you're an Australian? Of course... if Australia don't quite make it through to the semis then they'll care - but only about their own performance.
And that's the point, surely.
Don't be sidetracked about what opposing fans think of you. In this professional era, winning is what matters, not being nice and cuddly and friendly to the opposition. Fans will always banter, players will always psyche themselvbes up with sledging, but the professional players and dedicated fans really don't care what the others are saying about them to their face or behind their back. They just want their team to win, fair and square.
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I'm just glad that the match is between England and Australia. If it were between Tonga and Australia, I would not feel compelled to watch it. But England and Australia have a lengthy history, encompassing, amongst other things, two victories apiece in the matches in which they have met each other in the Rugby World Cup.
As regards the neutrals and their anti-English stance, this will not have a bearing on the result. That will be determined by who plays best on the day of the Australia - England quarter-final. The odds favour Australia. But, as many have commented, anything can happen in eighty minutes of rugby and the main thing is to be still alive in the tournament.
Unfortunately, my team (Ireland) are not even in the quarter-final mix. But I'm looking forward to the England-Australia encounter with relish. On the basis of the competing skill levels of the two teams, I expect Australia to win. But, if England manage to raise their game at the weekend and win the quarter-final, then no one should begrudge them their success. Life is riddled with far too many begrudgers.
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must be more Scots in Australia than I gave them credit for.......
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Not bitter then? As a Kiwi i'm a neutral in the Aussie vs England thing, but none of my Aussie friends dislike the English, and none of my English friends dislike Aussies - yet another case of never letting the facts get in the way of a good story ... former rugby international? ... when?
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I spent a year working and Playing Rugby in Oz. Yes they rip the p*s% out of you but it's good clean fun.
Aside from the reaction of PM Howard after the Aussies lost the cup on their own soil I thought their reaction was great.
George Greegans comments in the post match interview on the pitch minutes after the loss were an example of a fine sportsman who fought hard all the way but was gracious in defeat.
Do you know any Aussies who hate brits or vice versa - if we do they why do we flood to each others countries in such high volumes
And lets face it we would love to stick it to the the Aussies !!
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As an Englishman, I would rather be worthy of insult than irrelevant. Using stereotypes to insult a nation is unimaginative and smacks of a peverse form of jealousy.
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J O neil is just sledging, trying to drum up interest and debate in this game. Certainly a few take it far more seriously, these people are unbalanced in real life and probably blame all their problems on others. They usually have insecurity issues and not comfortable with there identity etc etc.
All true sports fans however will see it as a game of Rugby. Rivalries exist through keen competition. It would be every Aussies worst nightmare to lose next week, not because they hate England but because they hate to lose against England.
Same goes for the home nations, many of my Welsh friends happily support England in Football and cricket but get the red mist when rugby is involved. Even some Scots grudgingly admit to cheering England during rare ashes success.
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In any other country John O'Neill wouldn't get a job cleaning toilets. Even Michael Lynagh thought he was a prat.
What an odd thing Australian rugby is.
On the one side you've got: Michael Lynagh, Matt Burke, Darren Lockyer, George Gregan - absolute giants of their sports, geniuses on pitch who conduct themselves immaculately both on & off the field and have the respect of every fan & player within the sport.
And on the other you've got John O'Neill and Willie Mason.
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In any other country John O'Neill wouldn't get a job cleaning toilets. Even Michael Lynagh thought he was a prat.
What an odd thing Australian rugby is.
On the one side you've got: Michael Lynagh, Matt Burke, Darren Lockyer, George Gregan - absolute giants of their sports, geniuses on pitch who conduct themselves immaculately both on & off the field and have the respect of every fan & player within the sport.
And on the other you've got John O'Neill and Willie Mason.
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Has Hignell not managed to learn that traditional English virtue of being able to see and manage complexity? He writes as if 'poor little England' was simply the victim of undeserved and simple hate. Would it have helped Hignell if the wording of the quote which sets him off on this rather sad yet agressive rant had been changed to read 'We all love to hate England.'
Cracks about the convict past of Australia do not sit well these days, and really are not worthy of repetition let alone comment. Not a word here about the many things held in common. Not a word about sacrifice in war. Not a word about standing in the long line at Heathrow while almost all Europeans get preferential treatment.
Like other ex colonies learning to stand on their own feet without Mother England, there is an ambivalent relationship towards the colonising power. That ambivalence is not one way, and for the most part sporting rivalries are not remotely unfair or threatening. This one is not dramatically different as an attitude from that of the Scots, the Welsh or the Irish towards England.
Simplistic and irritatingly smug non-analysis of the Hignell type explains nothing. If it is intended as serious comment it fails. If the intention is humour it is a total flop. In the Rugby World cup, the Wallabies are not great. Let us hope they are good enough to beat the English, who are probably worse, and certainly (as usual), more boring.
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As an Australian, i am appalled by John O'Neill's comments and am sure the majority, if not all, right-minded australians would agree.
This guy is stuck in the past and not only insults the English, but also insults Australians. It goes without saying that his childish rant must surely embarass himself as one should expect the Chief Executive of the ARU to at least be factually accurate. To say that everyone hates England is patently untrue.
I sincerely hope the Wallaby squad and management distance themselves from this idiot and he is sacked at the earliest opportunity.
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As an old rugby player with my eyesight in the 2/10 cataract category, I would appreciate your organization arranging the colours of jerseys more evident. The Scottish and All Black colours were quite obscure. The referee, having been on a nice holiday in France before the tournament hand, should have checked the chaps out for clour-
blindess.
Cheers,
Jonathan
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As an old rugby player with my eyesight in the 2/10 cataract category, I would appreciate your organization arranging the colours of jerseys more evident. The Scottish and All Black colours were quite obscure. The referee, having been on a nice holiday in France before the tournament hand, should have checked the chaps out for colour-blindess. A cheap vin rouge can do awfull things to your retinas.
Cheers,
Jonathan
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....or maybe you should stop looking for answers in stereotypes, and look to how you treat, behave and interact with the rest of the modern world, then the answer will become clear.
Bring on the rugby.
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Im English, living in New Zealand.
All the Kids soccer teams are allocated names and often they are the names of English clubs, the same in the Cricket, my son played for Sussex last year, hes friend played for Yorkshire.
Not much anti English sentiment there.
I can see why English are not liked by some, they buy into the arrogance lie, I am not arrogant, nor do I think that England has a God given right to win everything.
What does annoy me is that England are accused of being boring, and yet when NZ do the same kicking game as England it is said to be absorbing.
If England lose to a better team on Saturday then I for one wil be happy to congratulate the Aussies, but if we win, you wont get any sense form me for days...... Go England
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I seriously doubt that, apart from a few like O'Neill, Aussies hate the English. They hate to lose to the English, but thats a different thing entirely. Its one of those great sporting rivalries that makes rugby so interesting.
On the day though, i cant see anything but Australia by twenty points. And yes, it is a revenge match--inasfar as you get them in rugby. All thats really at stake here is bragging rights for the next four years, because regardless of who wins theyll meet the all blacks in the semis.
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I believe it鈥檚 because England is the greatest country in the world and everybody knows it. Despite all the ridicule, propaganda and ignorance we put up with over the years we have done more for the world then the rest combined.
So who cares if everyone else hates us? - their just jealous anyway. If England get completely massacred by the aussies they should take heart, as I will, by the fact that they are English and therefore deep down the real winners.
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Having known many Aussies over the years I can safely say that John O'Neill doesn't speak for them at all. If there was any international rivalry it was always done with a gentle sense of humour; nothing personal or derogatory.
There are a few small-minded morons and bigots out there who proclaim their hatred of the English, but in doing so are really making fools of themselves. Similarly, there are enough so-called Englishmen (invariably those who support that mysterious nation of Ingerland?) who do the same and cheapen the reputation of my country the world over.
John O'Neill's comments are more worthy of contempt than anything else.
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First of all, what a fantastic world cup this has been - the best pool stage of a cup to date!
Secondly, reading the majority of the responses here I couldnt agree more with everyone's sentiments. As an Aussie living in the UK with plenty of English mates, I love nothing more than beating England and Im devastated when we lose to the poms, but to say I hate the english is just insulting. Hating to lose to someone and hating them are two entirely different things....
Oh yeah, go Wallabies this Saturday!!!!
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watch the aussie and the pom supporters during the match...sitting together getting on together like a house on fire...there's no sport in the world like it. I played rubgy in London and i'll tell you this...the Aussies were a great bunch of lads...totally loved and appreciated...the aussies might have more consistent form but watch out because england are just finding theirs!
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thank god for the aussies. They revolutionalised League and no doubt dragged Aussie R Union along with it. I remember watching Mal Meninga at Headingley when they whacked the brits at league and he was a phenomena, more so than Lomu in the 90's.
they are a class act at league and union and on their day are a pleaure to watch
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We should not dignify O'Neill's remarks with any further correspondence. What has, and should continue to be dignified is the extremely decent and sporting nature of the average Australian. At least thats how the Australians have always stuck me (an Englishman) on my visits to their fabulous country.
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Being one of the lucky Poms to have been in Sydney for the last final, I can only say "What a load of tosh".
We were sat in the middle of a large group of ex-Aussie players and the sledging between us was legendary.
BUT the minute the whistle went, everyone one of the ex-internationals turned to us and shook our hands with a large well done.
Aussies hate England - not true. Aussies want to win - absolutely the case and so it should be for England.
Saturday will be a big call for the England team, but then again we have done it all before, so lets just pray for one of those special days.
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From a Pom living in Australia for the last 5 years and from a Pom who lived in Wales for 4 years many years ago, I can honestly say that there's no difference between the two countries in how much they hate us English. Sort of ironic given that they regularly beat us - post 2003 - at rugby. You'd have thought there might be some sympathy. Fat chance. All countries are racist. It's the degree to which jingoism is taught in schools and is instilled in the culture that is a concern. If you're English living in Australia or Wales, you're going to be racially abused at some point. The way to deal with it, is for England to win! Then you'll not find an Aussie or a Taff for toffee. They all run and hide out of embarrassment. At least the Aussies can accept defeat to a better team. Not my experience in Wales.
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We as Englishmen get used to everyone hating us, especially the welsh and Irish but there again, we are still there until next weekend at least. Remember the bashing that Healey got over his comments but as long as we give 100% next week we have a chance, think France might just find their game against the kiwis as well. Also think it would be great for rugby if the Argies made the final.Still come on Glos and boys keep reminding Ashton of the best players he left at home.
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If I didn't know better I'd think most of the respondents are 主播大秀 employees. PC in the extreme. What this World Cup is missing is the banter, the David Campese's and Brian Moore's. Adults can play with stereotypes and poke fun and "hate" the opposition and still buy them a beer after the match. Brits and Aussies understand this and play the same game, two sides of the same coin. Try it with a Frenchman!
Reminds me I'd rather lose to an Aussie than a Frenchman any day...
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Comment no. 25 - Will? Is that Will Greenwood? Sounds like the sort of insightful comments we've been getting from him from the match sidelines during the rugby :-D
Let's forget this very tired old argument about who hates England and whether they actually mean it. I'd like to see what others think about pushing for some non-biased, intelligent and knowledgeable rugby commentating during WORLD cups. Bill McLaren left a huge gap when he retired.
p.s. Carn the Wallabies !
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Australia was built on "English" and it is good clean fun to poke the other side, it really gets the guys going and hopefully to win. do not take it to heart, one Aussie saying something to get the English stired up, do not forget we all have English,Irish,Welsh,Scotish blood and no matter who wins it will still think it as family that have won down under. So lets say I hope UK wins and that covers us all.
NZ will win , South Africa second
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Good luck all u Poms!! You're gonna need it. As for the Aussie sterotyping...throwing a prawn on the barbi, drinking ice cold beer, and surfing and being lazy...well they simply aren't stereotypes. I do that everyday!! England and the English think they have improved in their last 2 matches. Hmmm...against Tonga and Samoa...hmmm...So anyway after we give u guys a walloping in Marseilles u will probbaly sack ur coach, drop half ur players just like the rest of the Northern Hemisphere sides. Do i love it when England lose in sports they invented? Yes indeed!! Do i love it when England have no hope in hell of winning the World Cup in anything? Hell yes!!! I don't hate England, I just love it when they suck at things! Go the Wallabies!
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If there's one country I'd like to see with egg on their face,it's Australia. Let's face it, they think they're God's Gift to the world of sport. Probably suffering from a collective identity crisis, due to a sense of geographical isolation, judging by the way they flock over here to flaunt their national stereotypes.
What's worse is that there is a certain type of English that is intimidated by this show, even to the extent of aquiring that bland and irritating accent.
Hope England just plays to its own traditional strengths and sends them backpacking again next saturday.
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hahaha another English man whinging
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I'm a scotland fan but will be supporting England against the Aussies...and then the Aussies against the Kiwis!
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Settle down everyone> some deep breaths needed.
J.O.N. is just a salesman doing what salesman do. Selling something.
Its just some banter in order to ensure that this will be the most watched and eagerly anticipated quarter final out of the 4 matches.
He knows exactly what hes doing (and with the greatest of respect, perhaps the england team NEED a bit of a rev-up!)
I think most rational people can read between the lines here.
Go the wallabies but may it be a great spectacle and may the best team win.
ps: the league and AFL seasons just concluded last w-end and also he is just ensuring that the eyes of ozzy sports lovers are now firmly focussed on what is happening in France > remember rugby is a minority sport down here > possibley No 4.
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As a Welshman having lived several years in Australia, and England, the tag 'whinging' could easily apply to either. However, I really believe that the only thing between the 2 countries is banter rather than hatred. I believe in the main the same is true between Wales and England, although a few things I've read in the last few days might suggest otherwise. I'm hoping for a good close game, and I will be watching even though I'm a neutral. The game is bigger than any nation!
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what a load of twaddle! I can't believe the English are still making jokes about Australia being a convict colony! The whole idea of transporting convicts was based on class divisions in England - there was a belief at the time in a 'convict class' of people who were born bad. Well, if Australia has achieved anything, it is proving this absolute nonsense wrong! Besides that, when you come to Australia and meet Aussies of convict heritage you'll find they are quite proud of their family's interesting history.
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Tom
I wish you stop your whinging against the English - inferiority complex I think it is termed - old bean!
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Hate England? I am sick to death of such clap-trap! Competitive? Yes. Accentuate our differences a bit? Of course. But hate? I think such people should cease using whatever substance is patently no good for them.
We all love a stoush, whatever the code. And yes, I agree, there are nuances about each other that tend to spice proceedings up a bit. But I object to people (old enough and educated enough) who should know better, using cheap and nasty throw away lines that are heard by the likes of my 10yo son, Harry, who worships players from Augusto Pichot to Rob Andrew. Just headline grabbing rubbish.
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Well what can you say, as an Englishmen living in Brisbane and having arrived right in the middle of the Ashes i can confirm that 'Pommie' Bashing is a favourite pasttime here. However, it is generally all in good fun.
Aussies love there sport and are brutally patriotic (aint we all) maybe we all need to lighten up a little and look forward to great game of rugby on Saturday. Who knows with a little luck and maybe even a little rain, maybe on Monday i will return to a quiet workplace and not wait for the bashing to begin!
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As a Kiwi who has lived in both Australia and England, I think there is a genuine amount of respect between all three countries.
However, I find it amusing that we Kiwi's and Aussies call the English 'whingeing poms'! In my experience, the Australians are by far the worse whingers going around! before the Aussies take offence, I will qualify this by saying it is their sporting press who are the culprits. Your average Aussie in the street is very humble in defeat (unlike we Kiwi's when the AB's lose), yet their press is unbelievable. It is always the ref/weather/cheating oppo/sun in their eyes etc etc fault, never the fact they were actually beaten by a better team. My Kiwi friends and I who are currently living in Melbourne call it the ASPM: Australian Sporting Propoganda Machine! John O'Neill is just another example of it.
As for us Kiwi's, the sooner we learn to accept the All Blacks aren't the greatest sporting team on the planet the better. I mean, it's not like this World Cup really means anything does it? The proper one (which we'll be lucky to even make ever again) is in 2010, isn't it?!
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John O'Neill. In any country other than Australia the man would be regarded as useless tosser, but, on 'guiding' the 'socceroos' to the second round of the football world cup by beating the might of Japan and then drawing with a disinterested Croatian side and losing to Brazil the man has been elevated to quasi-God status here in Australia. Australians are second only to the Americans as bad, graceless winners ('four more years boys, four more years') and here is an example of O'Neill starting his bellicose piffle even before a ball has been kicked. The fact of the matter is Australia don't matter in global terms in anything apart from sport and, like most short men before them they need to compensate for this. It's just the little caesar syndrome in national form...
They'll win on Saturday, and every ex-pat Englishman living down under will have to wear their boorish triumphalism for a while (sports journalism here has never risen above fifth form insult-throwing, and then things will get back to normal.
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I love hearing the anti-English stuff!
It makes me realise how lucky and unique we English are- 1. we have no chip on our shoulder, 2. we don't have inferiority complexes, 3. we are not intimidated by anyone and 4. we are so important that the whole world thinks about us all the time!
As for this hating England stuff, (mainly from taffs, paddys, jocks and aussies) life is too short fellas! Follow your English friends lead and keep hatred out of your lives, that bitter and twisted side you all have is why we cannot respect you like you do us!
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like many Poms I spent a year in Oz before starting work and found Aussies and Australia sensational. Aussies probably like no other share our unqiue sense of humour when it comes to sport, consequently the supporter rivalry across our sports has no equal. Witness the Ashes in 2005 and RWC 2003...English and Aussie side by side enjoying great sport, great banter and beers flowing between us all afterwards.
Simply, O'Neill disgraces himself and Australia..the word 'hate' leaves no room for misinterpretation or misquoting...it comes from his heart.
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Well thank you - I wonder what his country will think if England win on Saturday and Brain Aston thanks him in public for the motivation that England have been missing.
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O'Neill is a silly fool. Anyway, I enjoyed this blog Alastair.
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#51 - Tom - nice and IRONIC, listing how "we have no chip on our shoulder" in a 'summary' of why the English are so "lucky and unique". And reason #2 "we don't have inferiority complexes" seems out of place in a paragraph of 4 points attempting to prop up one's self esteem.
You're a bit of a goose mate - but I don't think you'd find any single person living in a first world democratic country who didn't feel like they were from the finest piece of real estate in the world - so i'll let you off a bit.
I'm an Aussie, and I'd never live anywhere else. I love my sport, my country, and a laugh. And the best people I can have a laugh with are the poms and the kiwis. (Funny - but they're the ones who us Aussies supposedly HATE?!?!)
Finally, as for this "anti-English stuff!" which you love hearing, I hope you keep your rose coloured headphones on (yes - I realise that doesn't work) and KEEP hearing it! Me (the bogan Aussie), and my mates the whinging pom and the sheep rooting pakeha will just keep having a laugh with and at each other, and watching the jokes sail high over your head.
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Come on chaps, its only a GAME! As a supporter of International RU, I support all of our home countries and fail to understand the (sometimes) blatant hatred of England. It is so sad. The past is gone, let it go. Devolution should never have taken place.
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I am an anglophile frenchman - I know, the combination sounds as likely as "sunny Wimbledon" but I simply cannot hate a culture that boasts the likes of Saki, Jerome K Jerome, the Monty Python or Manchester United. However, Rugby is altogether a very different matter and I quite understand why everyone loves to hate the England Rugby team. I know the culprit , your honor : Arrogance . IMHO Will Carling bears huge responsibility for that reputation ; he must have indeed infuriated legions of fans throughout the world with his scornful "good game" uttered with his trademark stiff upper lip.
Besides, the english style of play is arguably boring, although it proved mighty efficient 4 years ago.
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Calm down, once the game is over the Aussie's don't take it any further, we all know it's just a game in the end. People talk it up a bit too much, but there's nothing wrong with saying Australia takes the greatest satisfaction beating England (and NZ) in Rugby. There is always an underlying respect for the better team on the day. I think the only "hate" in any sport is in soccer/football , where the English and Italian fans have great form.
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In the last RWC England were castigated because for a few seconds they were supposed to have 16 men on the pitch. But then when you wear an England jersey then I guess you get used to playing against 18 men. Can you imagine the possibility of an unbiased referee in the next few games? A Southern Hemisphere ref? No way! French? Your kidding? Irish, Welsh or Scottish? Are you joking? Argentina? Oh please! Possibly Japan, Portugal or Georgia but they don't have refs in the tournament do they?
You want a recent example Try the England Tonga match. The Tongan #7 put in a high tackle on Moody, his 3rd high and dangerous tackle. The ref penalised him for it but surely 3rd time around (1 on Wilkinson, 2 on Moody) that was a yellow card at least.
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Come on lads how do you expect the Aussies to carry on. You'd be testy if four years ago a bunch of boring old pensioners had sauntered down to your own back yard, given your bum a good kicking and wandered back home with the Web Ellis Pot, to glory and adoration by Gods own children back in Blighty.
But remember, Aussies are Gods creatures also and it does us Poms no credit at all to laugh at, and ridicule, every anti-English piece of vomit they chuck-up. It's just their way of saying thanks for all you've done for us. Thanks for the Queen, the language, Earles Court, Captain Cook, Jonny, giving Shane Warne a pension and a diet (albeit obviously not a successful one). It's okay lads, your welcome.
Anyway, all countries have an O'Neill. In England though most of them are on forced medication! The game is the most important thing and we don't need anyone to tell us we are up against it, HM Convicts XV are favourites and rightly so. But if I was Bruce and Sheila I wouldn't put the mortgage on it!
I see one bright spot though for friend O'Neill. He may get his wish and see the eradication of the English once and for all. If we beat the Aussies with a Jonny drop goal in the last minute the English to a man, and woman, will die laughing.
Good luck cobbers, and enjoy the game.
Mike Towl
Lagos
Portugal
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Whilst acknowledging the athleticism, dedication and well founded confidence of the Australian team I'm sure that they recognise that we'll try our best.The pre match discussions in Darling Harbour four years ago emphasised our ambitions in this direction.
I'm sure we'll try to give them a game this time also
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who cares. Get a life, you are taking all this banter far too seriously. Be proud that we can do it in rugby... its part of the game.
we aren't scrapping on the terraces, so lets keep things in perspective, enjoy match build ups for what they are...... obviously such chin wag should be accompanied by a few pints and a bar to lean on. Because i am sure if you could se the faces of the 'anti-pommes' they would have a wry smile on their faces. likewise when we are having a go.
so ah, get in touch with the game, don't knock the terms of endearments and report on the rugby.
allez le blanc.
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Ok.... far be it from me to defend him after his recent dire performances, but where's your link to Ronan O'Gara proclaiming that he despires all you English with a passion? Funny, didn't show up on my page.
Could it be that you are referring to his controversial statement that the G.P. English players are over hyped and that England aren't really that good?
That was ever so controversial, blatantly true, but hardly a declaration of hatred against you Saxons, was it? Bleedin' whinging pommies...
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And can I just add that as an Irishman and rugby supporter, I will be postponing my rabid loathing and backing England to win this match?
Oooh, the controversy. Maybe everyone doesn't hate you after all. Hope you don't mind.
Australia have been playing some nice rugby alright, so they'll be way ahead in neutral support. However, let's face it, an underdog is always appealing, and I want to see the Cup stay in Europe.
Let's see the England that showed up against the French this year, and I'll be cheering you on (just as then) but this time to the semis. It's possible, lads! So come on England! (And yes... that does feel strange to write ;-) )
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There's only one reason why John O'Neill is whinging about England he's scared of us!
If he didn't fear us he wouldn't feel the need to make any comments.
He knows and many of the other Aussies know that England will raise their game 100% against the Aussies and he appreciates that there is a good performance somewhere in the England team and it might just come out on Saturday.
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I'm a proud Englishman, and would absolutely love to see us beat the aussies this weekend. If we don't though, then i can safely say that my allegiance will be with the aussies - with the number of aussie mates i have, and the number of relos out in aus, its a natural choice as far as i'm concerned.
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The issue here is not whether the 'hatred' tag is true or not .. its that O'Neil, the ARU Chief Honcho, said it. its a disgrace and he will heopfully be fired in the next few days.
Whilst we all have seen this 'banter' go on between players and coaches ... yes its unnecessary ... but you can live with it. Buts in an entirely different kettle of fish when the man at the top says it. Yeah ... he can think it ... but you can't say it.
Its like Gordon Brown publicly stating that he hates Australia. He just wouldn't say it because if he did he would have to resign.
Lets all not forget here that when Austin Healey, just a player, said he hated all things Australian on the 2001 Lions tour, there was a public outcry in Australia resulting in Healey getting fined and banned.
O'Neill should walk for this.
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Tom Go Wallabies!!! wrote:
"Good luck all u Poms!! You're gonna need it. As for the Aussie sterotyping...throwing a prawn on the barbi, drinking ice cold beer, and surfing and being lazy...well they simply aren't stereotypes. I do that everyday!! England and the English think they have improved in their last 2 matches. Hmmm...against Tonga and Samoa...hmmm...So anyway after we give u guys a walloping in Marseilles u will probbaly sack ur coach, drop half ur players just like the rest of the Northern Hemisphere sides. Do i love it when England lose in sports they invented? Yes indeed!! Do i love it when England have no hope in hell of winning the World Cup in anything? Hell yes!!! I don't hate England, I just love it when they suck at things! Go the Wallabies!"
At least hate has a meaning, thats just sad I don't hold out much hope of a win on Sat but if we do the people like you will disappear because real fans stick with the game win or lose but lightwieghts fade away
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I'm comment No 1, and don't say anything as presumptious as thinking we (Scotland) will get to the semi final - that's a very big wish/hope!
Oh, and there was something lacking in the main square - toilets.... well, ones which didn't block every 5 minutes!! nice.....
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I think that is an interesting topic, if not fully rugby related. Sometimes it is unclear to other nations how a country thinks due to the overbearing influence of the media. I can only have a cringe inducing idea of how England is percieved by all other countries from what is reported from English media - parading soccer players in Nazis uniforms before England play Germany etc.
However it is clear from first hand knowledge that when you meet and interact with people that there is a strong bond between many nations and individuals. Its blindingly obvious to all that most English people are not pompous toffs (some are), Australians are not Crocodile Dundee 'Brace yourself Sheila' types, Kiwis are not surly, the Irish are not thick, Americans are not stupid, the Scots are not mean,the French do not smell and Muslims are not fanatical etc etc - however if you read or heard second hand how some English (British) papers report on other countries you may conclude the opposite.
I was always taught to treat everyone the same, as are most people. Almost all the different people I've ever met are generous and kind and interested in different cultures. I was welcomed with open arms by my wife's French friends, although they were curious to see if I only ate chedder and really drank brown beer by the pint - I don't and I do.
Also, as part of my simple, overgeneralisation of things, many people are not just pure English but mixed - which half of me is 'hated' if 3/8ths of me is Scottish and 1/8th Welsh? This must a similar situation in most countries!
Hate our media by all means but shake an English hand today 'cos he's nicer than you may think.
John O'Neill (an Irish father?)is, as previously mentioned, just building up the anticiapation, in a rather blunt way, to a great sporting occassion (as long as England play their part and don't roll over (2006 ashes anyone)).
Any way who could hate Australians - they are great laugh, get the beers in and any country that invents 'Kath and Kim' is welcome to marry my sister any day of the week.
Good luck and Gawd bless!
PS For Post No. 10, I believe Alastair Hignall won a handful of England caps in the late 70's at flyhalf whilst playing for the mighty Bristol RFC.
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I've just had the most extraordinary thought (True, my flash of insight has come after supping several pints of 'Grandpas's Old Peculiar'), what happens if England beats Australia?
Will our Celtic brothers have to start eating 'Desperate Dan' portions of humble pie?
There's a place in Somerset which makes it by the bucket load; another, North of Watford Gap.
I wonder if some kind soul could point them in the right direction.
Having read many of the comments on the various WRC sites I get the impression that should any of our Celtic brothers bite their tongues they would be in danger of poisoning themselves. Just as well humble pie has effacacious properties concerning poisons.
Me?...Should Australia beat England then I have a ready-made excuse for my aberration. I have played in the tight-five for many a long year and am therefore, entitled to be tuppence short of a shilling.
Barman!...Another pint of 'Grandpa's Old Peculiar', please.
Come on you England.
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Speaking as a Welshman, I usually start out planning to back England, but then, faced by their sheer bloody-minded arrogance towards we 'lesser' nations I too find myself in the ranks of the Tonga Fan Club. And, if anyone should think it's purely one-sided, take a look at the 606 Wales rugby board, especially for the posts around the time of a particularly black day in our recent past. Nothing good-natured about them!
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I am afraid that Alastair Hignell killed a good joke. The reply to the question at Sydney irport; "Do you have a criminal record?" should have been :"I didn't know it was still compulsory"" Its the 'stilll' that makes the joke. However, I agree with him that its about time that many Australians showed some real self-confidence and grew up a little. As a Scottish supporter, I accept that this anti-English thing that gets around many places borders on the moronic. Of course, it could be seen as a reverse compliment.
Roy Grant
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O'Neil's comments were unnecessary and ill advised, but he is a vocal minority of one.
There is an unbelievable desire in the English to beat the Aussies and vice-versa. This is because we share so much in common, we are both top sporting nations and we are both extremely competitve.
Some of my best friends are Australian and I've never met a more welcoming, friendly lot then the Aussies, and speaking to them they have nothing but good words for their experiences in England.
We love to beat each other and love to goad each other, but in my opinion this is because of how well we actually get on together. I wouldn't be bothered about bantering with South Africa or New Zealand for example because there is no relationship with them. I don't dislike them I just don't know them. We have the banter with the Aussies because of our close relationship.
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When are you English going to realize when someone is winding you up. No one hates you, sure you can be the but of a few jokes around the world, but then so is every other nationality to some extent. You yourselves are masters at making fun of others so come on, live and let live.
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"blue-blazered, bowler-hatted, old school tie wearing, gin-swilling public school toffs"
Stereotyping you say - not from where I was standing on Sunday. Replace the bowler-hatted bit with "green welly-wearing" and you would have the perfect description of the crowd watching the squad development process at Under 18 County level - held at a public school funnily enough.
My son was doing quite well, having been selected into the initial squad of thirty - but then he had previously played for the County in every representative match for the U14, U15 and U16 age groups so I wasn't really surprised. What did surprise me was when he was dropped from the squad in favour of another lad who had "a bit more to offer". What that could have been I have no idea as we didn't have the pleasure of watching him play because he was "carrying an injury". It must have been a long term injury because we hadn't seen him at the County trials either. Still, Daddy (wearing the tie of Sherborne School) was pleased, especially as he had been extremely active in canvassing the support his sons Director of Rugby - "- on the regional board of selectors as it happens".
Sour grapes? - probably but I can certainly see where the rest of the world gets its opinion of the English rugby "set".
(Incidentally, I'm only a lowly ex-grammar school boy - and I'm Welsh to boot!)
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There have been quite a few comments regarding the antipathy of Welsh Scots and Irish here also.
It's my impression that most Scots that I know who express a wish for bad fortune or form to afflict England do so because of the anglocentric nature of the media in this country. I can't speak for the Welsh or Irish but I'd be surprised if they were terrifically different.
It is really intensely irritating to find your national team almost completely disregarded in some sections of the media who see their role simply to pander to the statistical mean of the population. The 主播大秀 isn't as bad as some but not completely guilt free. Example - Match report of the Scotland - SA warm up match in a major broadsheet actually mentioned more English than Scottish players - yes I counted - simply because the important thing about this game was obviously that England were to play SA. Scotland were deemed irrelevant. Now that is hard to take and that sort of thing provokes a reaction. It is however difficult to see what the Australians problem is. I agree - O'Neill should resign. What a prat.
#73 Humble pie? When England were 30+ points down to SA in their group game the TV commentators still referred to them as "World Champions" apparently without irony. Completely embarrasing. If there is a UK shortage of humility it is pretty evenly spread I'd say.
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As an Englishman living in Scotland, I've become used to a certain level of of anti-English sentiment, especially when it comes to sport.
I've lost count of the number of times the local pubs turn Argentinaian, Portugese or the drinking haunt for ex-pats from any other nation we may be playing on a particular night!!!
Most of the time it is good natured although I have also experienced it getting quite nasty and almost leading to violence. But hey ho its obviously both something they enjoy and that is deeply engrained in them!! Sad sad people.
On a brighter note we begin our pilgrimage to Marseille on Thursday - the culmination of 18 months planning since we bought the tickets.
With the weather set fair and knowing how the Aussies like a bit of banter, I'm sure it'll be one hell of a party regardless of result!! Meanwhile, come on the Argies!!
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i'm an Scottish anglophile. it is possible! i was pretty pleased that England won the last world cup final. it's always good for the game when a new team wins; Australia had won twice before. so i backed england.
i'd like another side to win it this time. so i'm shouting for France. that's assuming Scotland go out!
P.S. 58. on cultural matters: i think Scotland can also claim Saki as one of her own. He's certainly not exclusively English.
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I think the Aussies are great. Their humour is second to none and very similar to English humour in many respects, their wind ups first class. I think they're the better team at the moment by a couple of tries and will likely win. John O'Neil is just spicing the mix. I just want to see a good game and they usually are, a bit like two estranged brothers having a good scrap. One thing the best team always wins these encounters.
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I must admit i so enjoy the banter between english and australian fans in any sport when we play each other. As an avid aussie sports fan i certainly hope oz wins against england but i must admit i would have preferred to play SA than england in the quarter final. I think this is why O'Neill has made his ridiculous remark as he is afraid that england do have the "potential" to upset the wallaby outfit.
One thing is looking like going in Australias favour though and that is the weather. Marseilles is supposed to be mid 20s and sunny! Certainly will help the ball of the boot and the backline players....
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Two points
One
I used to support every 主播大秀 Nation whenever they played SH teams (or France) until 1984 when the aussies came over and played the best tour ever, with the Ella brothers, Hawker, Poidevin etc. I follow England but love great rugby whoever plays it.
Two
In 1991 a posh scot decided to ostentatiously support Oz against England. Why? He made himself look an idiot and is only the top scorer in WC history because of one freakish result in 1995!
To all rugby followers, FOLLOW RUGBY not the attention seekers like O'Neil and Hastings.
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I walked the streets of Paris on friday and sat last week in my england shirt and met fans from many nations. one and all were friendly and polite, including at least one scot!!! the atmosphere was fantastic and a credit to the french organisers. this whole thing is crap - i would love to stuff the aussies at any and everything but i don't have anything against an individual oz, having met many through cricket. This idiot is not worth the worry. he should be ignored and let us get on with this brilliant world cup. i know were boring, you celts etc don't have to remind us, but my god, i would love to beat Oz 3-0 with a last minut drop goal. Allez les blancs
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To be honest from what I've learnt over the years as an English exile in Edinburgh, from what I can tell, theres one team that everyone hates to win more than England, and thats Australia. So I think this one is likely to be a bit more even support wise.
I remember wondering as I took my seat at the Telstra stadium that saturday nigh in november 4 years ago, why so many Kiwi's where wearing cheap white T-shirts over there black strips. Until I realised it meant that from the pitch, it made it look like everyone was wearing white!!
As for the Ozzies and sour grapes - I had some former playing mate of Knuckles Connolly refuse to let me buy a drink all night afterwards at Jacksons, as he felt England had done more for SH rugby by showing the importance of forward power, so a fellow prop from England should not have to buy his beers on that night.
Great memories - for my part, if Oz get through to the final, and they face the AB's, I'll be supporting the Ozzies. On the other hand if its the Saffers or the Argies, I'll be supporting them
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"It is really intensely irritating to find your national team almost completely disregarded in some sections of the media who see their role simply to pander to the statistical mean of the population."
Brian - I know what you mean. Just look at the Beebs rugby front page. Based on your theory the population of Scotland must be about 70 million! There is not a single story about England in the world cup. Good luck Scotland by the way, I geniunely hope you do well.
As an English supporter though it would be nice if the Beeb carried a little bit of news about the England team on its website. I realise that you must cater for the interests of all the home nations, but just a little bit on England from time to time would add some balance.
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Even if England beat the Wallabies on the week end (god forbid) we will have the pleasure of seeing them lose another game at the RWC as no team has ever won the RWC after losing a game in the group stage. The only probable winners of this Rwc will come from the teams that topped the 4 groups viz Australia New Zealand
South Africa or Argentina.
Looking forward to the defeat of England (hopefully by the Wallabies and if not by them then by anybody else.John O'Neil is a great guy and speaks the truth.
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Flippin' eck! I've just read Rod Crook's diatribe (no.16) - I've never before seen such a bad case of humour deficiency - and HE complains about someone else's inability "to see and manage complexity".
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No-one in Australia (apart from a couple of toff schools on Sydney's north shore) give a monkey's about the rugby world cup, which is why it's on Channel Ten rather than a TV station anyone watches and why the ARU keep buying rugby league players in the hope of bringing fans across from the NRL.
Still. play the England/Australia card and who knows, someone Down Under might be arsed staying up to watch the game.
Doubt it, though.
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"I hate you, I hate you, I hate you" yells little Johnnie at his mother, frustrated by his underdeveloped vocabulary so he stamps his feet for emphasis. Mother understands her son's age, knows it's just a phase he's going through, and loves him all the more for it. The son is John O'Neill, Chief Executive of the Australian Rugby Union, the mother is Mother England. This is precisely how O'Neill's protestations this week came across. Centuries of meaningless, light-hearted sledging between two sporting nations culminate in this embarrassing tantrum. But we love them all the more for it. Why? Because we understand their frustration and we understand they know no better. Australians play sport well. Extraordinarily well. And it's not necessary to emphasise how importantly they take it. But why is it so important? Well, let's recall what led to the above tantrum. Little Johnnie had been misbehaving so Mother had to discipline him. She locked him in the basement. The basement was large but empty and there was really nothing to do, until Johnnie found a ball in the corner. This was his only amusement and he played with it endlessly, throwing it, bouncing it against the wall, spinning it and hitting it with a plank of wood he managed to extract from the floorboards. The little ball was all he had. When he was allowed out of the basement, Johnnie took the ball with him and still played with it. He played with it with his friends and challenged them to bat it harder, bounce it higher and throw it farther than he could, and they very rarely could. The ball distracted him so much that Mother was concerned that Johnnie was falling behind with his homework, that all play and no work was retarding Johnnie's intellectual development. So one day (22nd November 2003 to be precise) Mother took Johnnie's ball away from him, and he really threw his toys.
We have a love-hate relationship with Australia. We love them and they hate us. We love their work ethic, their cheery happy-go-lucky attitude and we quite like taking a holiday down to the basement we sent them to hundreds of years ago because they've actually made quite a nice place out of it down there. They hate us because, well, we all know the history of Australia and how it was founded. The Aussie response to the Pommie line of "Well they should be good at sport, it's all they've got" is "That's rot, we've got wonderful beaches, lush vineyards and a thriving economy etc". This should be enough for us all to up sticks, dust off the galleys and venture south ourselves, shouldn't it? Not quite. In fact, save for a few emigrants more interested in drinking Fosters than earning more than 拢4,000 a year, most of them (indeed the cream of the crop according to the Aussie "brain-drain" label accorded to this exodus - frankly worrying for anyone familiar with the Walkabout patrons) seem to be over here, in the country they hate, in ghastly England with its rain, whinging Poms and warm beer. How come? I think it's because no matter how much we hate them at times, no matter how unfair they can be and no matter how many times they lock us in the basement when we're naughty, we all need our Mothers.
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so the aussies hate us then? strange, seeing as they can't bear to take our flag off theirs.
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A very true piece of writing. As a pom living in Australia I know for sure just how anti-English the Aussies can be - where sport is concerned. Australians are very, very bad losers especially when they lose to England. They really know how to spit the dummy, and it was a real pleasure to be in Australia when Wilkinson scored the winning goal for England in 2003.
I hope England can do it again this time.
Having just watched the Wallabies talking on TV I know they are still feeling very sore after their loss last time, and are champing at the bit. They have been pracising their field goal kicks (apparently), and feel this is the way they'll win. The result will soon be seen.
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Being welsh.. i pretty much have no prejuduce against any other specific nation at the moment.. I hate ALL other nations 'EQUALLY' those that are still involved in the RWC at the moment anyway.
Just a point to Neil on note 86.. the Australians and Kiwi's actually use the Union Jack on there flag which represents the 'WHOLE' of the United Kingdom not just England. Like it or not that means Scotland, Wales.... and Northern Ireland. (I think its northern Ireland..... forgive my ignorance)
Just a thought... I'm off back to my hovel to simmer in my bitterness and loathing of other rugby nations.
Good Luck everyone.(apart from England)
.... Only Joking... chill out.
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I am Dutch and married to a Sheila so I will cheer for Oz next saturday. In my younger years I tried to play some rugby and was lucky to experience playing rugby against eng scot welsh and irish rugby teams during Easter rugby trips.
What I would like to say is that english are similar to the german. That is that they are quite nice people to talk to and work with. Accept when it comes to sport. Then certain rules change. It always feels good when an english side is beaten by it doesn't matter what country. I don't know what that feeling is or where it comes from it just is.
But if an english side wins it most of the time is in style and they deserve all credits.
It will be as always an interesting match to watch next saturday.
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felice (88)
yes, the aussies use the whole of the union flag - and the red cross in the middle of it is the st george's cross. not sure which part of the union flag represents wales, though.
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I agree with most of the inferences. I was fortunate enough to be in that Telstra stadium on 22/11/03, when there was much "free Gregan hand-oil". I note that the weather forecast for Saturday in Marseille is "interesting"? Let it rain [though it is down to the players]?
In 2003, out of respect, I did not take .jpgs of The All Blacks exiting Oz. [which they did before the England v. Australia final].
Our Australian hosts in 2003 [for one ticket in their own city] were super people! I still think that pool RWCup membership ought to be increased [not decreased].
Rugby? ... "The World in union" was and is a good theme.
David M.
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I agree with most of the inferences. I was fortunate enough to be in that Telstra stadium on 22/11/03, when there was much "free Gregan hand-oil". I note that the weather forecast for Saturday in Marseille is "interesting"? Let it rain [though it is down to the players]?
In 2003, out of respect, I did not take .jpgs of The All Blacks exiting Oz. [which they did before the England v. Australia final].
Our Australian hosts in 2003 [for one ticket in their own city] were super people! I still think that pool RWCup membership ought to be increased [not decreased].
Rugby? ... "The World in union" was and is a good theme.
David M.
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Neil, (89)
If you want an education I will give you one.
Not one part of the Union Flag represents Wales. This is mainley because Wales, having been annexed by Edward I of England in 1282 and following the Laws in Wales Acts 1535鈥1542, was legally part of the Kingdom of England and was therefore represented by the flag of England.
(go wikipedia)
Another harsh blow dealt by English Ancestry...... however this is rugby talk so going back to the matter in hand.... 'he aussies can't bear to take the british and northern irish flag of theirs.' its not Englands just yet mate.
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Lack of respect breeds hate
As a kiwi living in the UK for the last 6 years I think some of the hate for England or at least, the love for seeing England get beaten, comes from lack of respect. England sportsmen generally show little respect for teams that have a consistently thrashed them. Instead they talk themselves up and talk down the opposition in a disrespectful way. This enrages supporters and puts pressure on themselves who ultimately look stupid afterwards. I鈥檓 talking about the mutual respect shown to each other when teams like NZ and Australia or South Africa meet.
You have to have respect to get respect.
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Why did someone say blogs like this are ruining sports journalism?
Surely they're just an online conversation we otherwise wouldn't be privy to and can therefore all join in with.
This site and others still have the same, in depth, relevant journalism surrounding the world cup. If you don't like the blogs, just remember that there's this wonderful human characteristic called... wait for it... choice!
For my tuppence worth on the Aussie put-downs. Have never understood why we're the Poms?! 'Pom' is derived from the passport stamp 'POHM' which all convicts had in their passport on arrival to OZ. It stood for 'Prisoner of His Majesty'. Surely that means a nation of Aussies are the Poms, not us?!
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Does it really matter? I mean does it?
I'm english and to be perfectly frank I have far more important things to worry about than what other people may or may not be saying about me.
To be honest I've just about had all my englishness drilled out of me by the state. Aren't I actually european? So there fore if France win can we claim that for us?
Also, aren't we told to be non competetive? Like where we shouldn't allow our children to compete with each other on sports day? So lets all just share the world cup round equally.
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What we need here is a bit of perspetive.
I am 100% rugby mad. I am also a proud englishman, but what happened to me today makes me realise how petty this whole nationality debate is.
Today I had to attend the funeral of my grandad, the man who introduced me to rugby, encouraged and bred my passion for the game.
My grandad was a proud welshman.
Reading some of the feeds here it seems to me that the majority of people here are forgeting what the main point of the Rugby World Cup is. The rugby world cup is a celebration of Rugby, no matter what country you come from. This world cup has been THE best so far. The so called "minnows" of world rugby have shown pride, enthusiasm and passion when playing. I have enjoyed every single game so far.
The Rugby World Cup is NOT a springboard for tribalism or an excuse to air some racist or xenophobic views. Some people obviously do not think so. If you want to do that then fine. Fight amongst yourselves.
I am looking forward to saturday. I think it will be a great match. If england win I will be happy, but as long as the game is a good advert for the world of rugby, then that is what REALLY matters.
I hope someone out there feels the same.
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AFTER months of intensive analysis by the players and staff attempting to take the mystery out of Saturday's World Cup quarter-final, the only thing the Wallabies haven't worked out is why their boss is providing arch rival England with mountains of motivation.
It's the most frequently asked question in the Australian camp: why is John O'Neill stirring up the opposition? And no one has the answer.
With the Wallabies clearly holding the whip hand going into this heavyweight match, what is there to gain by rousing England's bulldog spirit beforehand by insisting that everyone hates the Poms?
The first time he said it, it was treated as good-natured banter but when he repeated it this week, even the International Rugby Board sat up.
"His comments have been noted," said IRB spokesman Greg Thomas, himself an Australian. "No one wants to overreact but it would be best if that line wasn't continued."
The fact is not everyone does hate the English, Wallabies attack coach Scott Johnson for one. He loves them, one in particular, Judy, the Englishwoman he is set to marry two weeks before Christmas
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If all the rugby-playing nations gang up on England, then the chances of the country ever hosting the World Cup again appear to be slim. Mr O'Neill is quoting as saying:" No one likes England. If they want further proof, how do they think France won the right to host this World Cup? It's simple. No one would vote for England and they were the only country in the running. The only votes England could be assured of back then were their own. Sadly, this is all a by-product of their born-to-rule mentality. It has been there for a long time now and nothing has changed." I hope that nations in other sports such as soccer, rugby league, athletics, sailing, show jumping, horse racing, cricket, darts, snooker, tennis, skiing and hockey don't take the same stance.
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After attending a RWC 07 game involving Australia, I was shocked by what a one eyed set of arrogant louts their supporters are. I overheard kids being encouraged by their parents to jeer opposition kicks at goal, no one clapping opposition scoring and vitriolic abuse from 20somethings. Maybe I'm just getting old but rugby never used to be like this. Mind you, Australia haven't always been the force in world rugby that they think they are now. How long will it be before there is crowd segregation at international rugby matches?
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A bit of banter between teams, even nations, is all part of rugby but I firmly believe that home nations deliberately supporting whoever plays against England is a disgrace.
First a foremost I am English therefore will always support English rugby, whatever their form maybe. However, secondly I am British and therefore I will ALWAYS support another home nation if they are not playing England. For some reason I also feel the same towards Ireland too. Any Brit who doesn't follow this logic is evidently small minded, stuck in the past and perhaps offering a sad reflection of their own team's dismal failures.
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* 23.
* At 08:21 PM on 01 Oct 2007,
* Will wrote:
"I believe it鈥檚 because England is the greatest country in the world and everybody knows it. Despite all the ridicule, propaganda and ignorance we put up with over the years we have done more for the world then the rest combined.
So who cares if everyone else hates us? - their just jealous anyway. If England get completely massacred by the aussies they should take heart, as I will, by the fact that they are English and therefore deep down the real winners."
...
I'm half Scots, half Aussie and this is exactly the kind of Englishman that I simply can't stand. I'm happy to say that all the Englishmen I know are decent blokes and that we get on really well, with the natural (and quite necessary) pre&post match banter concerning rugby/cricket matches.
Anyway I'd just like to say I am totally at odds with O'Neill's comments and would like to mention that I regularly support the English football/cricket teams when they are playing anyone but Aus/Scotland, as do many of the Scots/Aussies that I know.
I just think it's a shame that there are people out there like Will that have the sort of mentality that makes it so much harder for us to maintain what English sympathies we have, and I am sure most English people will feel the same way about the comments John O'Neill made.
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As the great nephew of a Australian killed as colonial cannon fodder in Winston Churchill's reckless Gallipoli campaign; as the grandson of a cricket fan who never stopped talking about Bodyline; as the member of a sporting society where one plays to win a cricket match - not 'settle on a draw'; as a person who takes OFF his singlet when swimming.....yeah I was bought up to be un-English, emphasising my Australian identity.
But.....this weekend - may the best team win. Hope all the fans - English and Australian - enjoy a fine match.
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