Ö÷²¥´óÐã

It's good Germany are out, now we just need Sepp Blatter to be tied to the apollo space shuttle and sent up into space never to return.

As for England the reason we never get anywhere is because we dont actually have a good team. The media think we do but, actually we dont. We would have been destroyed if we had to play Italy or Germany last night. It's just sad we didnt get somebody like Scolari as the new coach who actually understands the game of football and chooses players who play as a team. Svens selections and tactics are remenisent of a novice getting to grips with Football Manager 2006. The vicious cycle continues.

Too many players in our squad that are just like Roy Keane stated. "Just because you are paid £120,000-a-week and play well for 20 minutes against Tottenham, you think you are a superstar,"

"Liking someone - or a country - but not their team is surely not so strange? If I have come to love Germany and its people does that mean I now have to want its team to win? Personally, I don't think so."

Can you please explain this to Tony Blair etc. who think that for Scots not to support England is nigh on treason.

it was a fun game, wasn't it? i shot out of my chair when italy scored and a "yes!" echoed through my living room before reminding myself i wasn't watching england.

shame, really.

Hi Paul,

I have to agree to your opinion. If you like german people it doesnt mean you have to cheer for the german team. I can perfectly live with that. Hope you can accept that I didnt like to see the english team winning, not because I dont like english people, fans or football, but because of the really bad football your team was showing. Although the Portugal match changed my mind a little.
Same thing for me was true for Brazil. I expierenced them in Munich, great, great people, but even if they played well I didnt want them to win for 2 reasons: 1st didnt want them to get ahead of us with 3 titles and 2nd didnt want Ronaldo to break Gerd Müllers record :-(
Anyway, life continues, still a lot to improve for the german and the english team. Hope you had a great time here!

I agree fully with your comment that you can like a country and many of it's people without liking their football team. Perhaps English people could keep this in mind when they bizzarly expect Irish people to support England.

Could we please give our defense the recognition it deserves. Not all our players underperformed and for them all to be branded failures is unjust. The great teams base their success on stiff defense - we have that thus a platform for a World class coach to build upon. We just need a world class coach!

Good post. This is the point that Scots have been trying to get across in relation to England. We like your country, your people and so on, but we don't support your team. And no amount of preaching is going to make people think otherwise. If anything, it gets people's backs up.

Hey Florian.

Hope you aren't feeling too bad today - I certainly know how it feels - and I think we might just be in Cologne on Monday, so brace yourself!

I'm relieved the Germans lost too. Although they hosted a great tournament, were very friendly and played attacking football, I just couldn't bare another team full of good but not great players win the World Cup. Germany were a very good team but a little lacking in real star quality. At least they don't get that fourth star on their shirt now!

I think the Netherlands and England should have got a new "archrival". Why don't you concentrate on Portugal from now on? Forget the past and move on. Especially since our team is playing real good football now!

So, who would be your favourite, if Germany meets Portugal on saturday?

I personally hope that the winner from today will win the whole World Cup. I would prefer France to win the World Cup!

Hello Paul Fletcher,
Enjoy reading your lines ... I never compare the Germans with the laid-back Irish, the witty-humourous English or the stylish Italians, etc. On the whole, they are decent, reliable and hard-working people who can enjoy themselves too. And who have great respect for the English.
Surprised?
Auf Wiedersehen - und komm bald wieder!
Luisa

Having been in Frankfurt for Englands opening game I can only re-affirm the general concensus on the German hospitality and friendliness. They took the banter from us in good humour and I was given numerous free beers and talked about football long in to the night with the locals.

However, I was still delighted to see them go out last night. Happy they got to experience what we endured back in '96. Going out in the Semi at home. The Italians took their game to a different level and were deserved winners. The World game, like club football, needs rivalries. Without them the passion for the sport would surely lessen. I haven't met an English man who when asked who should win the quarter final between Germany and Argentina hasn't responded with "don't care really, don't like either..." or something to that effect. Fair play to the Germans for putting on a friendly tournamant but good on the Italians for wiping the smile off their faces!! It would hurt more to see a 4th Star on the White shirts than a 4th on the blue.

Fletch, there is one thing I don't really understand:
wanting your own team to win does not mean wanting a particular team to lose, does it?

I was deeply impressed by the quality of the football played by Germany and Italy last night and it proved that a match can still be entertaining and finish full time goalless. The German team did their nation proud and went down to a better team. They nevertheless played to their maximum potential , and , unlike England, can at least be satisfied that they did their best. German fans surely cannot be living with the same levels of pure frustration as their English counterparts. And that begs the next question , which is who is really responsible for the continuous years of failure of the English football team. The answer long term surely must be that the FA as the governing body has to take the blame. But then who is the FA truly accountable to ? It is certainly not the supporters. In a business environment we would have experienced a radical shake up by now - it would have been forced through by shareholders - and yet the FA seems to move from one shambolic event to the next without anyone seemingly taking responsibility or being accountable to anyone else for the successive years of failure. The system of vested interests which result in the football clubs dictating to the governing body is a massive conflict of interest and it is time the government stepped in to sort the situation out before we have no English players of any quality left. In order to be effective the governing body for English football needs to be independent so it is able to take decisions that are in the best interests of the game in this country, even if they are not necessarily in the interests of the clubs.

Interesting thought, Fletch.

Who do you want to win the world cup now?

I was deeply impressed by the quality of the football played by Germany and Italy last night and it proved that a match can still be entertaining and finish full time goalless. The German team did their nation proud and went down to a better team. They nevertheless played to their maximum potential , and , unlike England, can at least be satisfied that they did their best. German fans surely cannot be living with the same levels of pure frustration as their English counterparts. And that begs the next question , which is who is really responsible for the continuous years of failure of the English football team. The answer long term surely must be that the FA as the governing body has to take the blame. But then who is the FA truly accountable to ? It is certainly not the supporters. In a business environment we would have experienced a radical shake up by now - it would have been forced through by shareholders - and yet the FA seems to move from one shambolic event to the next without anyone seemingly taking responsibility or being accountable to anyone else for the successive years of failure. The system of vested interests which result in the football clubs dictating to the governing body is a massive conflict of interest and it is time the government stepped in to sort the situation out before we have no English players of any quality left. In order to be effective the governing body for English football needs to be independent so it is able to take decisions that are in the best interests of the game in this country, even if they are not necessarily in the interests of the clubs.

These are perfectly reasonable reasons for not supporting Germany, yet how come so many people didn't accept them for Scots not supporting England?

As someone of both backgrounds (English & German), and living in Germany life can sometimes be a tough proposition, but when it comes to football, England rules (even when the team doesn't). Nevertheless, this tournament did reveal a newly born German team and - although Italy was both stronger and more prima-donna-like - a team that holds potential for the future. And I hope, pray, that England builds up its side to a similar level so that the old rivalry can be reborn on an international level.
I say this as a fan of rivalry and banter, but as an opponent of hatred, xenophobia, racism and downright disrespect. After reading some of the earlier blogs on the Ö÷²¥´óÐã and elsewhere, it still seems that the concepts still love to get mixed up... But if the English can love the Germans (not including the team), then maybe there is hope for the future!
After all, as this World Cup has proven, we do have and use the time to make friends.

I fully agree with you, I live her for 20 years now, obtained citizenship and I came to love this country and some of it's people.
Yet at no moment in time did I want England to win.
This would have been unjust as they were playing badly throughout the tournament and only after Rooney's forced exit really showed how good they can play.
This was especially apparent as they appear to have self-proclaimed themselves more or less as world-cup winner beforehand.
This was quite arrogant in my view. Furthermore I could not stand that excuses were already put into place, should it go wrong.
This cannot be good for team moral.
Looking at how the German team and public dealt with not winning the title in comparison to the English, I now find I rather prefer to be a German than and English looser.

fletch

i try to brace myself but i currently work very close with an italian departement of my company. really bothering. as i saluted them a happy FORZA ITALIA this morning i found out something interesting. i was told that the "good" italians use to say ITALIA FORZA. maybe they dont want to be connected to silvio berlusconis party with their chants :)
in case that u try to contact me during the weekend, please try the emailadress i submitted with ths comment as it is my private adress

cheers

flo

flo

That is absolutely right. I think we Germans don't want your love. But we want your respect. And that's how it should be.
I don't want no English fan screaming and rooting when the German team is playing. But a tap on the shoulder after it and a "Good game, mate" would be a fine start.

fletch

i try to brace myself but i currently work very close with an italian departement of my company. really bothering. as i saluted them a happy FORZA ITALIA this morning i found out something interesting. i was told that the "good" italians use to say ITALIA FORZA. maybe they dont want to be connected to silvio berlusconis party with their chants :)
in case that u try to contact me during the weekend, please try the emailadress i submitted with ths comment as it is my private adress

cheers

flo

flo

No, you don´t have to love the team. But you must admit, that Germans are able to accept defeat to a stronger opponent and still support their own team. I am also reading blogs in the Netherlands and Switzerland and it appears to me that there are many bad loosers there. Italy was the stronger side this time. That´s just it and it´s ok.

My nine year old cried for an hour last night and started again three seconds after waking up this morning but personally I don't think being third or fourth best (my sons insist on third) in the world is so bad. Jürgen Klinsmann is certainly one of the most charismatic and -dare I say it- nicest coaches of the tournament.
I do think that the cab fare incident is a disgrace, though, and being German I would be ashamed had I not experienced the same thing in Paris and Stockholm. I guess everyone is just trying to make a buck.

Let's be honest and not hypocritical. We're delighted that they lost. More than delight, it was a huge and emmense relief. Even though individual Germans can be very nice and friendly, only someone without a real deep down love for English football can start supporting the German team. Fletch is just showing that he's a real supporter, not a part-time one on an inter-rail pass.

@georgm

Unfortunately that is true in most cases, especially with the German v England thing - but some of the people forget that the German team lived above everyone's expectations in this tournament. As an eternal German supporter, yes, I was bitterly disappointed that they didn't make another final, but on the other hand I am even more proud of them now, as their performance should shut up all those mouths whining about how Germany wins World Cups without playing good football. Everyone thought Brazil will win it because they got Ronaldihnio who can do pretty much everything with a ball. So much for the trickery. Then we had Argentina who ever since won 6-0 became everyone's favourite. German football on the other hand, doesn't involve samba, but is characterised by ingredients that very few countries possess - spirit, and determination that drives the players to do everything for not letting their country down. And they didn't.

hear hear, well spoken bruce.

I celebrated the Italian goals. I would have celebrated a German goal just as much, cos I thought the german people deserved it. however, taking on board your comments from a previous blog, I sighed a sigh of relief that there would be no 4th star on the german badge. however, there is every chance of a 4th italian star, but I'd prefer now a 2nd French one. still time for England to catch up, but like all the chances that come our way, we'll muff it up. probably down to that hopelessly inept organisation of freeloaders, and liggers known as the FA. but also down to the fact of footballers more interested in celebrity, and not getting on with the football: contrast Beckham and Hargreaves.
Well done Deutschland, but you were after all undone by the better team, but WHAT A GAME ! thanks to both teams, and the excellent ref.

Well, ok then. If we gave you relief and a good feeling after all for not making it to the final, then at least you can't complain about us as being bad hosts :- )))))))

Hear Hear. I'm a Scot who loves England the country but not the team. (only cos they're boring, not cos they're English)

Hear Hear. I'm a Scot who loves England the country but not the team. (only cos they're boring, not cos they're English)

@Red Max, the problem isnt scots not supporting England, its the massive chip on shoulder exposed by idiots like the young Mr Murray (not all scots are this way of course I grant you) supporting "whoever is playing against England".

I hope the german press stop attacking italy with boorishes and vulgars considerations.

tr iynjkm

Thanks Fletch for including the final paragraph in your report.As you probably have read recently the furore,in certain sectors of the English media,that it was a disgrace that we Scots wouldn't exactly be cheering on England at the WC.Also the fact the we most definitely didn't want them to win it.
This is not because we hate everything English,but the fact that the media,at the slightest opportunity,regurgitates 1966,Bobby Moore,"They think it's all over...", etc,etc,etc.
I know that we have never really done anything outstanding at the WC,but do we have to put up with this drivel every time the England football team play???
It's so bad,that my friends & I often have a sweepstake to guess the exact time the first 1966 quote will be delivered.
I've lived in England & I've many friends & relatives from your lovely country.I've even been an Arsenal supporter for almost 40 years.But that doesn't exactly mean that I'll ever be cheering on England

After the dismal display by England and their ultimate exit I reall wanted germany to go all the way. What a shame to be on the losing end of such a teriffic game. The second goal doesnt count for anything me and my dad could have scored that one with 10 germans in the italian half!!
Well done to both teams for a great display.

Allez les Bleues !!!

I don't agree with No. 22 at all. I´m English, have been living in Germany for 6 years now and it is now my home. Why shouldn't I be able to jump up and down (and I did!) when Germany scores. I feel part of this country and want to feel part of this country. I will always support England, and I still see it as my other home but now I´ve got a second team to fall back on when the inevitable happens with our lads!

@ Dave.
I just quickly scanned the German Tabloids Internet pages (Yes they also have something like the "Sun" called "Bild" and an "Express" called "Express" but I cannot find any of your allegations, but what I did find was a story about London's own "Hannibal Lector" .. a burglar who bit a thumb of a pensioner and swallowed it. :-))

I just saw the Sun today...Pathetic (as usual) Most of you said you were tired of your tabloid press and how racist they were towards the Germans...Well this time round they are making their racist jokes about French people inviting English fans to support us...even if they stink, smell garlic etc...DO YOU CALL THAT HUMOUR? THIS BUNCH OF SO-CALLED JOUNALISTS ARE RACIST AND USE STUPID STEREOTYPES! THEY WILL NEVER LEARN...10 Million people in the UK buy the Sun each day...Well sorry to say but there are 10 Million idiots in your country...

I must apologize to all Germans. It would appear that I am bad luck, for whenever I truly want a team to win, it loses, (although if I'm half-heartedly supporting a team, it wins). As a Belgian supporting first Holland (I've lived there half my life, so it's allowable), then Germany, I truly do have bad luck (as I recall, Belgium last went to the semi's the year before i was born, need i say more!?). Now I don't know who to support, so will pick the best team who plays (although less chance Portugal- their only strength is Scolari, and they cheated Holland!).
As for England, I was fully prepared to support them at the beginning of the year, but living there during the build up to WC, i began to get really bored by their "we are the best" attitude. I know it's just the media, but it kinda spoils it. I didn't like it from Brazil either (yay! they're not going to win AGAIN), but at least they had some justification. Better to point out faults and be realistic, than to complain and blame everyone other than the actual team. Altho Cole's goal was magnificent.
Cheers

What finest attacking football are you talking about?? running like old mercedes shaking the ground & shooting as hard as they can is your idea of fine attacking football??
Klose yesterday couldn't win any balls & podolski proved he is still far from being a world class striker, as for the rest of the german team, what did they do yesterday exactly against Italy? what chances did they have? I saw Ballack trying hard to get an italian player sent off when he held his head but no one had touched it, i saw klose doing another of his fouls, like the one that got the argentinian keeper out of the game so he can score.
Yes, i felt good when they lost to Italy, they thought they had the cup already in their possession, they got far too cocky with a less than average team.
I think it was sweet justice.

I'll support Portugal now - they should finally win the World Cup and get the first star on their football shirts. The party's going on ... :)!

BTW: Football's a TEAM sport - no need for excentric, selfish wannabe stars.

Of course you don't have to support their team just because you like the people. But I understand the question. I found myself feeling a lot of sympathy for the Germans too... something I would never have expected to feel a few weeks ago. But they played with spirit and passion and Klinsman showed his own passion and that kind of thing wins me around every time.

Support for the national team is a complicated issue. I supported England with all my heart but that doesn't mean I support the "English way of life" or the British government or anything else for that matter.

Well, I, being German, have been to England many times, have English friends and really love that funny little rock in the North Sea.

However, when it comes to football there's only one nation I want more to lose: the Netherlands. (Which, as a country, I quite like too)

So I think that's fine, Paul.

P.S.: Great the way the English fans celebrated their team and the event over here. 98 % peaceful and friendly. The odd "ten bombers" singers only raised some wry smiles. Somehow, we were way beyond that...this WC party seriously brought football fandom to a new level.

Hi Leen,

Portugal didn't only cheat on Holland but also on England. Cheating seems to be all they're good at (apart from Big Phil). We shall see about that tonite.

Would it be difficult for you as a Belgian to support France? Given that you lived in Holland for quite some time you must be Fleming rather than Walloon?

@ post 33:

I think nearly every media from nearly every country isn't political correct, if they report about important football matches! At least the big football nations aren't very nice to each other. That's absolutely understandable. Isn't it? We all want to win at the end of the day. We wouldn't need to send our teams to such competitions, if we wouldn't like to win.

I personally would prefer the insults from the german media, compared to the insults Germany got all the time, before this World Cup. I think the Netherlands and England had the worst media in that case. Especially if it's about Germany. This World Cup hopefully made a big change. I hope for no more Hitler jokes. We all agree that the german history is horrible, but most people I know haven't even lived back then! Not even my parents. I would love to see jokes about our food or current, fresh german stereotypes. But most jokes made by english and dutch football fans are still comparing us to the historical bad Germany, which doesn't exist anymore! Most jokes are war related. Before this World Cup there was no real chance to rehabilitate, to be honest.

I hope for much better and more creative attacks/jokes on Germany from the british and dutch media during the next big sport events!

Most other countries don't attack Germany like that. And still they do attack us, if there is a reason to attack us. I'm fine with those attacks. And if the joke is good, I might even laugh about it. I'm a very self-mockery person. But it's hard to laugh, if the joke is again and again about Hitler-Germany.

All that said, I think that "Time To Make Friends" doesn't contradict with our "rude" media or our current dissapointment. Germany would be a weird nation, if we wouldn't care about this lost game.

Congratulations Italia! France will hopefully beat you. ;-)

@Toni:

Funny president? Horst Köhler?...

What country are you from? It might not have to be another World War... ;-) (to the more Latin European readers of this blog: I was kidding)

Nope, don't think you have to support a team even if you like the country.
And well, I think Italy could have used some support as well. After all their coach is right to say, they had to play against 50000 people.
So we have to admit, theire victory was hard earned.
Hm, drifting of topic again :)
Maybe it's time to say thanks to all you great guests out there. You turned this WC into a wonderful feast.
After all 32 nations came together to play football. 31 teams had/have to loose. Now it's been our turn. But there's always a next time.
And the match for third place.
Deutschland voran!
Go on, Germany!

Italy got revenge for the Germans shooting Bruno the bear.

My wife is German and I have lived in Germany for nearly a decade and still haven't lost my desire to see their national team lose (and last night was no exception). I absolutely agree with you, Fletch, that football is about rivalry, friendly banter and for us Englishmen, going out on penalties.

disagree with No 36 comment, the second goal was a fine piece of football,justice for Pirlo who has been constant through out the tourniment just shows that Italy were 100% focussed on the game,like many people I also think the German team had too much "arrogance" not enough concentration ... I-TAL-IA

Leen,

I fully understand your "jinx" theory, because i too fear that i am a jinx. As a south african, i naturally supported whichever african team that would go to the next round. But when Ghana was up against BRAZIL all i could do was hope for the best. Alas, it was not meant to be, so off to the next team which ofcourse was England - NO COMMENT. With Argentina gone, Germany was next on my list! Then ITALY happened to me at 118mins into the game! How much trauma can a football fan go through? Right now, i am scared to support FRANCE! Lord forbid if PORTUGAL wins, i don't know what i will do!

But beside all that, thank you Fletch and Ricco for the BLog. The Germans have put on a good show. I congratulate them, BUT just you wait until 2010 - we're going to ROCK YOUR WORLD!

Hi! I'm German but have lived in the UK for a good quarter century now. This is home to me now, and I love it, and the people. But, like yourself, my cheers for England (and Holland, of course) crashing out of the Euro or the World Cup are only a few decibels less than my reactions to a German victory. And that rivalry is, as you say, as it must be.

Or must it? I'd rather it wasn't. I wish I could want my English and Dutch colleagues to do well in their matches, but I can't.

Thing is, before I came to the UK, I, like the rest of the German football world, admired and respected English football. '66 was never a problem to me. Until I landed on these shores and found that here '66 was an extremely big deal, learned just how much the English media despised my team, apparently all harping back to some war or other. Motty and the rest of English football media keep regurgitating the same stereotypes year after year, and until that stops, and we're given the same respect we give you, I'll scream my head off at every England curtain call.

In the end, I felt a bit for England like you felt for us: it was a cruel way to get penaltied out yet again, it was cruel luck to have the top players injured, it was cruel to watch an emotionless Eriksson sabotage England's campaign. Cruel, cruel, cruel. And yet...sweet!
Cheers
Stefan

Ah well, another hating Pom? :) Why exactly don't you like the German football team or like them winning? I have never been a fan of the German stlye of football, but this team was, well how can I put it? Different, maybe?

But yes I do agree with Wolf on the better team winnig. Italy was two levels higher. And this match was better most games in this World Cup.

I think most Germans can take heart in the fact that this team, written off in the beginning, came this far. Next World Cup, who knows.

Fletch, I feel you are right about that. I personally LOVE Italy, the poeple, the food, the country.

But I would never ever show any sympathy for their football team, and especially not this year. The match fixing scandal, the involvement of the Italian press into the ban against Frings and many other reasons.

But personally I prefer to see good matches. And if I see a team playing attractive football, I tend to sympathize, no matter where they are from.

For the sake of fair play, and with much sympathy for those old guys: GO France!

To Toni: I think most Germans will rather cheer for France now, instead of preparing WW III. But if you are a faithful reader of some tabloids, you might spend the rest of your life waiting for that. Too bad. Good luck with your prejudices, since you really must love them.

As a Scot, I can fully relate to this article, especially the last para. I had similar feelings for England, although in the eyes of many, that would make me a racist.

Ho Hum.

At least you did stick to your opinion that an english football fan should never support a german team. Way too many english fans suddenly supported germany. They just kind of transferred the English misfortunes to the german team.

toni wrote:
"Finally Germany is out. Will you pack your German flags and hide them again in your bags or shall we expect a Third World War as -statistically- high unemployment rate, funny president, increase in patriotism and unsatisfied souls of Germans automatically leads the world into a war..."

Well, Angela Merkel is setting up a topic about invading Poland for recompensation and finally finish the carpet-bombing of England. I don't know what Horst Köhler plans to do, as a funny president he has no power at all, but you knew that, right?

At the same time England plans to re-establish their colonies to finally "attract" some fresh football players sent via ships...
It's really cosy living down in the past, isn't it? You just don't have to think or to act intelligent at all...!

By the way, Italy truly deserved their win over a decent playing but still young and unexperienced german team (full respect to you, your time will come!)
Italian tactics were simply overwhelming and I can't think of a better defence in combination with very fast-paced attacks at the moment, they were awesome last night! They simply shocked us...great game Italia.
Looking forward to a fantastic match Italy-France!

Congrats Klinsi...

I have to admit that I was a little bit sorry for the german fans that managed (again) to show that they are superior to their racist newspapers (all the pizzas and grasy parassites stories).
The german fans were amazing during the whole match and even better after it; well, they whistled Italy's national anthem but that was probably because of all the emotion with Fring's case and since I never heard that from them before, once can be tollerated.
I'm surprised as well from how the english have changed their attitude compared to the bad jokes on italy being divers etc and now are congratulating them.
I lived in London for 3 years, during the 2002 World Cup; before that I always supported England as my second team and I was a big fan of Arsenal when I was a kid.
After spending that time in England I had to change my mind, not because of the people, but because of the fans and your media.
The hype they manage to generate is incredible and depressing, specially because a lot of people go with it and believe it.
I love the english, but I cannot love their team anymore. Making fun of other teams is alright as long as it is not offedning. Sometimes you go over that and I cannot tollerate it.

Isn't it funny that you English are quite happy not to support Germany because of your past history with them. But when us Scots refuse to support you it is treated as treason. Any sport but football and in the main i would say that we Scots would support the English.
I was living in England, as a schoolboy, when we crashed out in Argentina. Was it unlucky wee man the next day at school or were you laughing as much as we are today.
Lets face it, all of your performances were poor and scoring 5 goals in 5 games isn't exactly setting the heather on fire. Perhaps if you had played with the same adventure as the Germans you might have found more support north of the boarder.

Paul, an emphatic No. Don't let my countrymen's tendency for "emotional blackmailing" get to you. I believe it's a typical German character trait!
For me yesterday's match felt the other way round: I simply had to admire the Italian's morale in the eye of the storm. As much as I was hoping for another German miracle, I said to myself "please not another penalty shoot-out". Every now and then it's OK but to gain the championship through 3 consecutive pens would be preposterous. I don't particularly like the Italian style but imagine they would have been your team. It would make for a historic feat in any country.

You know, it feels really good to win. But it feels even better to be able to shrug off the disappointment, to move on after a lost match and to feel happy for the finalists. We had the goal to become World Champion and to be a great host. The latter one was more important to me. On Sunday I am going to Berlin to celebrate the final and to show the world that we can lose and still be happy fellas!

Well, the Germans can't have it all...

Many thought that they had achieved the greatest goal of all when, following the charm offensive launched on foreign tourists and media alike during the world cup, they had finally gained the greatest accolade of all. "Fletch" had now "come to see the Germans in a new, refreshing and entirely positive light"...

Perhaps "Fletch" would like to share with us his opinions on the Germans prior to this World Cup?

Assuming that these opinions were not particularily favourable, I think "Fletch" should at least wait a few months before deciding whether he can support the German team. Only then will he be able to ascertain whether his childlike enthusiasm about the new toy he has found (the Germans) remains, or whether it was only to be a fad. If the latter holds, and come September, "Fletch" has reverted to his old stereotypes and is hurling abuse at Michael Ballack, Jens Lehmann and co., then no Fletch, you needn't feel the need to wear the Mannschaft shirt and know the words to "Deutschland Uber Alles" come Euro 2008...

How on earth have you ended up writing this for the Ö÷²¥´óÐã when you have such a shaky grasp of spelling, grammar and punctuation, let alone any journalistic instinct? I'm completely mystified. Next time round perhaps the Ö÷²¥´óÐã can employ somebody with some kind of background in either football or journalism.

As someone who lived in Germany and and grew up there as an Englishman I've always known it as a great place to live and also fun place to have a holiday etc etc. But boy was I relieved that they didn't win this world cup. That would have reminded me of the pain of hearing the celebrations outside my home in 1990 and 1996. I'll always want them to lose but I really like the country. That is football. Mind you I'd never buy the shirt of the team they were playing - that is a extreme form of bitterness only found in a sparse northern region of England, I mean Britain called Scotland :)

Happy now?
What a pathetic article written by Paul Fletcher!
Characteristic for a man.
Forget your feelings about other people (friends?!) when it comes down to football!
In addition:
Liking my next-door neighbour but not his success or his car is surely not so strange?

I think the support germany have got of the english is supurb and they fully deserve it. I think the teams passion, drive and motivation has made us take a long hard look at out own team. With so many world class playes and an average performance from england they can learn a lot of germany, with average players and world class performances. We have so much in common but yet so much difference. the english players all have celebrity lifestyles and advertise themselves through their wives. The germans have have wives but focus on the task. We were optimistic that we would win the world cup before it commenced, the germans were pesamistic they would not. From my experience over there I am ashamed for some of the conception I had of Germany, Its amazing how out media can brain wash us. Germany may not have lifted the cup but the surley deserve the title of the best hosts, thats why i was rooting for germany!! I never thought in a million years before I went I would return with a German shirt but i have. The fact is they play the same style as us and their culture is very similar, its just a shame we dont have the same mentality as them. If the world cup were to come to england next time, I feel there would be a much darker side to the cup.
in conculsion, I love germany, you have won my heart, with how friendly the whole country has been and putting on the best world cup in history, thanks for making it the best holiday of my life. Thats why germany are my second team now. We shall see you at the finals of 2008 then? maybe by then we might have learnt how to kick a ball 12 yards?

I can undersatnd Scots not supporting England...I don't support Scotland. But I don't actively want them to lose which seems to be the case with the Scots and England.

Hello.
Well what a game that was! I thought Argentina v Mexico was entertaining but Italy v Germany, (stealing Wayne Rooneys caption) GOBSMACKED! World class in every way.

I'm Welsh, but since our team is in a transgression period (lasting almost 50 years!) I pour my heart and soul into believing that England can win the World Cup. I really hope they do one day with Wayne at the helm, he's football hero material, but for now we don't know. If only ...........

Regards

Sylvia

It is good that both England and Germany are out.I am really really happy that England is out in QF.i wanted them to go out in the first round itself but somehow they managed...How can u guys expect a talentless team to win ? becoz u have media?

Nice story, Fletch, and I hope you had a great time in good ole G. (looks as if so far).

You are right when you say footie is about rivalry, banter etc. I do agree with that and whenever England plays Germany, sides are clear. We will trash you and your bloody superstars anyway. Ha ha.

Still, as a German living in England I do support England by heart when it comes to different scenarios. Why not? Why should you not support any country if you find people and country sympathetic? It is good fun after all.

I have been around Europe and the world a bit. In most countries the above would be possible (e.g. post 39 and 66). Not so much in England. Must have to do with the war and England being an island.

However, it is good that you started this story. Makes people think and reflect and probably come to conclusions they would have never reached without. It is always good to see, when people realise how much they are influenced by a mix of media, myth and grandfather's war stories.

The worst thing that could happen to football is if we all started to ‘love’ each other. Friendly rivalries are great fun and - let’s be honest - extremely enjoyable…as long as they come with an underlying respect and a lack of violence. In fact Paul, your honesty about wanting Germany not to win is genuine and your reasoning rational. Your attitude is good for the game and we Germans wouldn’t want it any other way.

To our visitors I like to comment that Germans are likely not the people you thought we were and we are not the people you may currently see us as. Take the halfway point between both and you will have a fairly accurate assessment of who we are. Our sincere goal (no pun intended) during this World Cup is for you to have an enjoyable stay with us and depart with a smile on your face (even if your team is out).

Congratulations to the Italy fans for a well deserved victory and an honorable match played and thank you to our German boys for a valiant effort. You made our nation proud - and we still have a respectable 3rd place to play for.

Though not over yet, also thank you to Fletch and Ricco for letting us Germans (and other nationalities) view the World Cup through English eyes. It most certainly added to the experience.

As for the tabloids and spiteful reporting, it’s a matter of supply and demand. We stop buying that garbage and they will stop printing it.

(It’s been nearly a day and I still have that empty feeling inside…the oh so unfortunate fate for fans from 31 nations.)

I am from Sri Lanka.so I am not that much into FB.But last year or so I following english football on web.And got strong attachment for people like Lampard.gerrard and Terry etc.
Its funny for the first time in my life I want England to win and felt really gutted to see them go out.Further more it happened 1 hour after enjoying the whitewash on enlish cricketers.

I am from Sri Lanka and hate all things english .
I am not that much into FB.But last year or so I following english football on web.And got strong attachment for people like Lampard.gerrard and Terry etc.
Its funny for the first time in my life I want England to win and felt really gutted to see them go out.Further more it happened 1 hour after immensly enjoying the whitewash on enlish cricketers.

Fletch, you may be pleased to know you make a fleeting appearance on my website:

Please note: some of the pages are slightly NSFW

Cruel but predictable.
The Germans just werent as good as everybody though.

I didnt have much preferrence for any team that match but knowing what the italians do the whole match-Defending- and then kill the oponent with 2 or 3 well aimed counter attacks, with a german defense that was nowhere near capable of matching that of the italians.
The italians waited for the Egrmans defense to crumble wich it did, it just took longer than I had expected.

Im also pleased Germany lost the semifinals. At long last they received some of their own medicine... and now all the german media, coaches, commentators go on and on about the cruelty of conceding such a late goal. Somehow all germans have forgotten that in the history of football the german teams were "Weltmeisters" in snatching tight matches, scoring late or scrappy goals, commiting brutal fouls and, of course, winning on penalties. Usually against better teams, that were producing the more attractive game.
That is, why I was extatic about Italy's win last night.

f

I think if the world cup, and the media/ public attention has shown one thing, its that opinions are very strong in the game.
Take these blogs for example, we are asked to comment as i am now.
The whole football community is one big discussion room- in pubs, at mates´ houses, in the dressing rooms and training fields.
My opinion is that if England are not going to win (ugly or pretty) then i want to be entertained by players and teams that can do things the average professional cannot do. This is why Zidanes performance was so special. There have been others in the past, and there will continue to be more in the future. I do not support a particular team now England are home, i´m simply a fan of football, and as such will applaud any team who acheives success through magical moments and sublime skill. If thats the French, Italians or Portugese i´m not that bothered.

Although, a little bit of my pride would like to see the Portugese get stuffed.

In summary, be as you are, keep rivalries, support great play. Whatever, its all good. Just don´t overcook opinions like we´ve seen during this world cup regarding England- they become boring.

Portugal is gonna win!! In your face, gringos!!!

Portugal is gonna win!! In your face, gringos!!!
you just didn't post my commentary, because you want the French killers to win. Yes, French killers!!! A French man, just shooted two portuguese because tehy were celebrating their victory!!!

For those of you who found chants like "Ihr seid nur ein Pizzalieferant" (you are just a pizza deliverer) before the game rude, today the most popular song goes "Wir sind nur ein Bockwurstlieferant" (we are just a wurst deliverer). German humour - hard to believe and understand, I guess...

Berlin, Berlin,wir fahren nach ...erm Stuttgart!!!

Portugal is gonna win!! In your face, gringos!!!
you just didn't post my commentary, because you want the French killers to win. Yes, French killers!!! A French man, just shooted two portuguese because they were celebrating their victory!!!

Portugal is gonna win!! In your face, gringos!!!
you just didn't post my commentary, because you want the French killers to win. Yes, French killers!!! A French man, just shooted two portuguese because they were celebrating their victory!!!

Or am I wrong here? If I have come to love Germany and its people does that mean I now have to want its team to win? Personally, I don't think so.

As an anglophile Canadian, I certainly didn't want England to win based on the form they showed here.

Like a lot of people on this site, I'm English and lived in Germany for a number of years. I have a love-hate relationship with the place and the people; I was often frustrated with the pathetic tabloid-driven emnity...(on both sides)....for that reason, I am ecstatic that this WC has been such a success and that the world has seen how wonerful the modern Germany can be...It's a shame for Germany that they went out...aber ihr sollte alle sehr stolz sein. Ihr habt die Welt ihre offene, friedliche Seite gezeigt. Toll gemacht!

As an English football supporter I laughed like a drain when Germany lost.

Why? Because it was such pay back for Euro 96 when England was swept along with the enthusiasm and longing to win the thing.

It was just a shame it wasn't us who won.

Does that make me hate Germany and Germans? Not at all. It makes me a football supporter. Anyone who doesn't get that doesn't get football.

That Thierry henry deserves an Oscar for the penalty. As for the referee, he must hate C Ronaldo for that obvious foul on the french box he didnt signal...see you in 2010, oh well.

Fletch, I responded already earlier that it`s okay you didn`t want us to win.
I had a bit a think on the matter, and now I know why it wasn`t offensive.
You stated your opinion politly and with honesty.
That you didn`t want us to earn, what some other respondent so brilliantly called additional "bragging rights".
If you are right that we are friendly, that is, a people that can be your friends, I shouldn`t be offended if a friend in spe tells me his open mind.
Honesty and politness can never be wrong or I don`t deserve your good opinion.
And you didn`t take glee at our defeat. Thanks for that.

@wolfgang (71): Thanks for your summary. Wonderful post, nothing to add there.

The defending team always wins. But I don't think this one is a reason for despair. Before the tournament I read on the Ö÷²¥´óÐã page (and not only there) something like "a world cup too soon for a promising team". So lets look forward to 2008 and 2010 :-).

Portugal fan here.

Well thats it, France won as a predicted but defending like greece.
Portuguese players were all too tired to run after that penalty that didnt exist. But these things happen. I will gladely keep watching the WC.

Too bad this game lacked any brilliance though. Expected the french at least to earn the victory the right way. In the second half they didnd exist. We should have falen in a more spectacular way than this.

See you in 2010 lads. :)

It looks as if the Italian team planned this game ending. Judging by the way the German defenders were positioned at the time the 1st goal was being executed, they seemed almost ready to call in the penalty kicks. The Italian player who scored the goal was all alone inside the 18th area. Feets away, there were about 5 German players alost watching. Did the Italian couch palnned certain moves by the Italian team (not offensive but defensive in nature) during the 2nd half of the overtime, to show they were doing little but killing what few minutes were left from the overtime, only to surprise the German defense who may very well have fallen into this trap?

I agree completely with you personally. Germany have made this world cup great and the germans are all lovely people, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we need to support Germany at all.

At last the commentators this evening brought up the subject of cheating, because that is what it is, or should it just be called diveball? Of course something should be done about it, and people like Alex Ferguson should be brought into the discussion whether they want to be or not. Perhaps he doesn't care that England lost to Portugal, as long as HIS beloved Manchester United is not affected. The behaviour of the Portugese team AND their manager this evening just showed how unjust the treatment of Rooney was (despite his unfortunate 'foot placement'!, what about the headbutting).

If everybody, commentators, managers (apart from Scolari, thank God we did NOT have to have him here!!), the football supporters all got together something could be done. Otherwise it is just going to get worse, and England will never win again. All the Latin races are particularly bad at diveball, yes, even Brazil, but even Holland surpassed itself a couple of games ago.

Please lets get something going to improve the beautiful game - well it is not often beautiful anymore. BUT I did enjoy the Argentina/Germany match, WHY? because the Argentines did every underhand trick in the book that they could AND IT GOT THEM NOWHERE, how I was shouting at the TV screen in joy!!! But you see at the end they were practically attacking the referee, what sort of example to young people is that???

Oh yes, I am an elderly, middle class, lady (how uncool I suppose will your response), but I love watching the World Cup!!!

why is the director of the france and portugal match a wanker? why didnt he show the end of match action with scalarie, plus also that prick ronaldo would have been crying so why didnt we see that?

nice read, thank you. i fully agree with what you say about rivals teams. if you force yourself to like a team just because you like its country or that country´s people, that´s hypocrisy. well maybe that sounds a bit harsh, but you get the point. its my opinion too that rivalry is what makes sport events such as the world cup as much fun as they are.

anyway, no matter how much rivalry there may be when it comes to football, it was a great time and a beautiful experience to have fans from all over the world here to talk to and to party with. and the fact that most people seem to have enjoyed it means a lot to me personally and a lot to most other germans too, as far as i can tell.

and a party is only as good as its guests and this 4week party was just terrific. so thank you very much, and please come again :)

Well
As a Scot, having spent the last few months being encouraged, if not bullied into wholeheartedly supporting England, the comments from Paul Fletcher tonight sound a tad hollow. Was it not rivalry and banter when Andy Murray said (allegedly) he was supporting anyone but England. I have worked with English people all my life, love the country, love the hospitality, but quite franly some of the Daily Mail lead nonsense over the past few weeks about unpatriotic Scots was classic "quiet summer for news" hysteria. It was, is and will always be (I hope) friendly banter. Somehow, it became political - for God's sake its only football!
So, my friends in the South, if you were watching tonight's match, and wonder why so many people outwith England get a bit miffed, Motty's downright contempt for Portugal, ably supported by that well known Irishman Lawro, was petulance taken to an altogether new level. Yeah so Portugal dive and cheat. They are not the only ones. In fact, the whole tournament has been ruined by highly paid pansies falling over and screaming like kids in the playground. Indeed for services to cheating in a devastatingly effective manner, I give you St Thierry Henry. Yeah he was slightly clipped tonight in the box. What followed was pure theatrics and it won the match. If you disagree watch it again, and look out for the delayed reaction. So is that gamesmanship or cheating? I know what I think. And he has previous. Spain match, falls down having been brutally hit in the face by a ten pound mallet! Free kick, decisive goal. There is cheating, and cheating. Prancing dancing and falling over like Christiano Ronaldo is laughable and it needs to continue to be pointed out. Henry's gamesmanship for me characterises much that ails the modern game, and you get the old pro's on the sofa condoning that type of cheating because that's what you need to do to win.
And then to compound the commentary, we get Shearer announcing that only 5 or 6 players from the 4 quarter finalists would get a game for England. Exactly what does that mean, and what point is he trying to make? I could waste time by listing a full team from the 4 quarter finalists who would most likely win the world cup, but the thing is, it is a totally fatuous exercise. It is also the sort of muddled thinking that brings you guys into every major tournament with entirely the wrong attitude. "Oh yeah we lost, but we are still the best team in the tournament". Based on what?
Face it, England played poorly, wasted a talented squad with a great chance to win, and have/had an overpaid and over-rated manager who failed every time it counted. I doubt if Sam Allerdyce or Stuart Pierce would have allowed a team blessed with the likes of Gerrard and Rooney to scramble wins against awful sides. So let me say as a Scot, had you played brilliantly, you would have got my support. As it was, you (apart from a great last half hour with 10 men v Portugal) were awful to watch. And yes, Scotland are absolutely awful, will never qualify for a tournament again etc etc. We know that!

post 31 doesn't make sense. Once again scots have a chip on their shoulders for not wanting england to win but all these other posts are ok (i assume as there is no criticism of them)doh! Scots believe it is the english who have a chip as they cannot seem to cope with the fact that their football team is not universally loved

You were getting very deep and maningless by the end of that post! Football really IS a thinkers game!

I was finding it very hard to resist supporting Germany, at the back of my mind there were images of the misery they have caused on many english footballing occasion...but this was a differant team....so as soon as I started to support them...they crashed out....from now Im going to try reverse psychology. I hereby support whoever I think deserves to lose!

Long live Portugal!

As a German I find it hard to understand that there seems to be such a rift between England and Scotland. You live in one country, or not? We also have many different people - ask Bavarians or Swabians or Saxons or whatever. But they would never get the idea that they are not part of our nation or state. They for sure also would never have separate suaqds in a WC and why should they. What makes it so hard over there on the island to stay together as one country, also in football? Can anybody explain that to me? I am a bloody German and I just don´t know.

I completely agree. As a German, I have lived in this country for 14 years and yet still do not feel the desire or need to support the England team. However, this does not mean that I do not like living here or do not like English people.

Yet, whilst I agree with your sentiment, maybe you would have been better off to point this out to the many England supporters during this World Cup, who have been bombarding the message boards of the Ö÷²¥´óÐã and other websites, condemming foreigners and immigrants in this country who refuse to support England. I have never seen so many hateful and outright racist and xenophobic comments before in my life. I feel it should be entirely up to your personal choice and fancy which team you like and support, regardless of your nationality or where you live.

I’ am just about sick and tired of the Ö÷²¥´óÐã’s supposedly impartial football panel of experts sour grapes. There continual whining during the France, Portugal semi-final match left me ashamed to be an England supporter. Having to listen to Lawerenson’s thinly disguised hatred of anything vaguely foreign, poor technical comment, and non-comedic insults and Motson’s audacity to suggest that Rooney stamping wasn’t really a stamping at all! They not only discredited themselves, but encouraged the lack of discipline which has let England (teams and fans) down in previous competitions. Shameful!

Any sort of critical impartiality was completely discredited when Ronaldo’s performance outshone that of Zindane and was arguably the best on the night and yet commentators (Motson & Lawrenson) couldn’t bring themselves to admit it.

The panel was no better. Their total ability to blame everything and everybody for a wretched England performance apart from the players themselves was sickening. Just compare the stats with the teams that have progressed. Their childish, petulant slagging off Sven-Goran Eriksson (behaviour rather reminiscent of a Mr. Rooney) compounded the fact that they reeked of sour grapes. Oh, these people have short England Football managerial memories. Even a Scot and an Irishman caught the disease. The panel’s expertise and respect for art of critical football analysis hit all time low when they suggested that quality of finals had fallen. Please don’t drag the greatest show on earth down to your impartiality and deep depression at England’s poor showing. The Germany, Italy semi was one of the best matches in World Cup history.

Do your job lads, stop the England hype and start bringing the so called ‘golden generation’ of English football players to task. Look at how the English Premiership can start producing ‘real deal’ players who can produce at the highest level and please quit the embarrassing sour grapes

I still don't understand why you don't want Germany to win. What have you got against them? They have every right to have won that game, the Italians were more clever at the end but if it's because the prehistoric issues of "Don't mention the war" than your reasons for not supporting Germany can't be justified. Germany much clearly had more right than England who played miserably throughout the tournament.

Yep, Italy were the better team, by far! its all about great football, and they showed it against germany,
even though the german supporters found it necassary to disrespect the italian national anthem, and then whistle whenever the italians had the ball, all they managed to do was rile the italian players up,
the germans dont boo the italian national anthem when micheal schumacher wins with ferarri.
There was no way they were going to loose after the disrespect they were shown by the not so "friendly" german supporters, a low point for the german hosts, who until then were doing a great job.

After having a read a few of the blogs on this site, i have to say that i am dissapointed by the negative abuse from england supporters directed towards the portuguese supporters, its just sad, bitter rubbish, the Portuguses beat you in a penalty shoot out, which seemed to be conducted in a fair manner, why all the hatred?...

It's a football competition, can't you just enjoy it, we are all human beings, on the planet earth!, if you can't say anything nice, then zip-it, move on, just because your team lost to what you think was cheating, or bad refs, get over it, what comes around goes around! your day in the sun will come!
Lifes too short to be bitter!

Ted, I completely agree with you. National anthems should always be off limits to ‘booing’ at sporting events. That’s where innocent mockery ends and serious insult begins. I find it very unfortunate that some of my countrymen chose to display such disrespect while the Italian anthem was being played. Their conduct was totally inappropriate and I think we owe the Italians an apology.

I also agree with you that Italy was the better team (obviously) but I beg to differ on the extent.

As far as your England/Portugal comment goes, I think overall a lot of what is being written or said has to be taken with a grain of salt. People watch the same game but come to totally opposite conclusions. That frequently leads to heated exchanges but I don’t think it is based on real hatred.

Enjoy the final on Sunday.

Dear sir:I do love Football,but as a club not the nation.I`m a Real Madrid fan&enjoy our player in any of national teams.Even my country was in the tournement,didn`t enjoy them a bit,because don`t know the player.Do preciat our player like Ronaldo,Robert Carlos,Robinio &Chichino in Barzi,Figo at Portegal Zidan in France&Spanish team.As far as you know the player&their styll,there are plenty to enjoy.
Yours S.watanabe japan

Reading through your blog, it struck me that your approach towards Germany, in failing to reach the World Cup Final, mirrors that of many a Scotland fan, yet over the past 6 months the 'ENGLISH' Press have continually portrayed Scotland as being ANTI-ENGLISH, RACISTS as we refuse to sign up for the England supporters club.

I have many English friends, enjoy many aspects of the English people & culture and still refuse to support England in Footballing terms.

"Liking someone-or a country-but not their team is surely not so strange?"

Don't feel bad about not feeling bad for the Germans, I've learned to live with it when England fall to glorious defeat after glorious defeat.

PS. Not that I'm defending Ronaldo's actions in the Rooney sending off, but the next time John Terry berates the referee when Frank Lampard has been sneezed on, will there be such an outcry?

Reading through your blog, it struck me that your approach towards Germany, in failing to reach the World Cup Final, mirrors that of many a Scotland fan, yet over the past 6 months the 'ENGLISH' Press have continually portrayed Scotland as being ANTI-ENGLISH, RACISTS as we refuse to sign up for the England supporters club.

I have many English friends, enjoy many aspects of the English people & culture and still refuse to support England in Footballing terms.

"Liking someone-or a country-but not their team is surely not so strange?"

Don't feel bad about not feeling bad for the Germans, I've learned to live with it when England fall to glorious defeat after glorious defeat.

PS. Not that I'm defending Ronaldo's actions in the Rooney sending off, but the next time John Terry berates the referee when Frank Lampard has been sneezed on, will there be such an outcry?

Glad you've come to look on the Germans that way - it's the way (I think) most Scots feel about the English. Like them as people, don't want their football team to win.

You have put it rather well.

Scots, English, German,....
Everybody wants to win his team.
The best team should win !
Our german team lost the game against italy but the party is still going on.
We are proud of our team and say congratulation to the winner.
They are the winner of our german hearts.
It is important to win in a game but the way to win or to loose its realy more important.

I have to say, that as a Holland fan, I have a reason to say Portugal cheated them. The English have far less reason (cummon.. admit it, it was a lacklustre game from both sides until maybe the extra time, and even there wasn't all that brilliant. and ronaldo arguing with the ref!? happens all the time, yet only the english harp on about it... i must admit, english media can ruin any support ppl may have for their team).
To reply to post 44, yes i'm flemish, but now I don't know who to support: at least i'm not jinxing anyone ;). Whoever plays best I suppose, and deserves to win.
As for the level of football in this WC, say what you will, but there's been some beautiful matches. Ger-Ita, I rather liked Ger-Arg, Arg-Mex, and i really like Ivory coast, who just had an incredibly unlucky draw.
Cheers

Hey Paul... you're right... I'm from Germany and I really like the english people too but I don't like the english football-team... but if they would play against holland... well... I think, I would prefer an english victory ;)

the italians were marvellous. i am personally a Gattusso fan and some of my friends call me Gattuso. i really am waiting for the final. what with the best player from this generation, ZIZOU facing the meanest of them all'GATTUSO'. i really can't wait. To the english fans i say hard luck... yo team was not up there with the best but the next coach should not waste gems like Rooney as lone rangers and should not blunder in carrying useless buggage to tournaments'THEO WALCOTT'. I'm a manutd supporter. Also one thing for sure Ronaldinho has not gotten to stage of being a football guru like the GREAT ZIZOU. I think the football hall of fame should be having only 3 players (pele, maradona and zizou). England can u copy the italian way of doing things-EXQUISITE.

I believe Shearer was right. Of course you wouldnt take many players to fit into the england team.

Henry, Ballack (maybe), Pirlo, Ribery (maybe).

The england team is packed with good players who dont play well together, on talent alone (which is what shearer was talking about) i wouldnt take too many other players from the quarter finalists.

Hi folks,

it is really funny, when the topic is related to the English (British) - German relationship the blog gets 100 entries within 24 hours.

First of all, through my time in military, I had met a lot of people from the UK and the Netherlands and never met any troubles and usually it was fun drinking a few beers with them. But of course if England (not Scotland/Wales) or the Netherlands are playing football, OF COURSE I like the other team to win, it doesn't mater which country they represent or if am able to find it on a world map.

You may ask, whom I prefer in a direct contest, my wife is half dutch and supports them more than Germany. No doubt, I would support England!

About the Italian national anthem, ever heard the German anthem at Wembley? A lot of people were pissed by the Italian media involved in a third party game. The Argentinien players started attacking German players and in the end one of our most important players was locked for the semi final... and the Argentinien player is locked in a few qualification games against the Galappagos Islands, Panama and other football super powers! Cool deal, thank you FIFA!

First and foremost i have to say I am Scottish to the core.
I will say this England had a great world cup-------.No no not the team they were absolutely dire tactics poor, boring to watch.
But the fans they are for the first time that i can recall, a credit to thier nation,to have that many fans at the finals and to have so few arrest is wonderfull and should be shouted from the rooftops.
how nice it could be if it were not for rabbid comments we get out of the English media on the team. I have noticed with dissmay comments from the Scottish press and radio some anti english sentiments i can assure you not all of Scotland is this nieve,I am glad the English team are out due to the hype from the media but i am sad for the fans because i thought them a credit to their nation. i can only hope one day Scotland and England fans can celebrate together win lose or draw then we realy would have a united kingdom

1) The German team...several players said it after their last game.."we were so close to penalties"...this clearly explains why they are out of the World Cup, kicking penalties well is defenitely a good thing but not enough merit to advance to the final ...imagine winning by penalties in quarter's, semi's and the final !!!
2)England: forget about putting energy in bitterness towards Ronaldo (most referee's would have red-carded Rooney anyway ; Rooney should just have thought about his team and he didn't!!!...teams win World Cups ,players must think in terms of the team, Rooney didn't during that slip, it cost England a lot!
3)France: always attacking and defending as a team plus tremendous heart and excitement, deserves the final match.
4)Italy: same as France allthough more conservative... but, technically a better team as well as individually, WILL WIN WORLD CUP PRIOR TO PENALTIES UNLESS FRANCE SCORES FIRST GOAL (FRANCE'S COACH WON'T LET A LEAD SLIP AWAY)

To Andrea,

the second goal was a joke, because 8 German players were in your half. BTW I was supporting Italy during Euro 2000...why the hell wasn't del Pierro scoring in that Final vs France???????????????? WHY??????????? I was virtually impossible not to score at least one of his two chances!!!!! My dead grandmother in her wheel chair would have scored!

Anyway let me state I think the victory for Italy was deserved. And the following isnt complaining just to wake some Italians up ;-)

Dont think your team is THAT good! I dont want to start arguments, but I think Italy was very lucky in two situations as well although they might not have locked dangerous to most football fans or experts.

The first was the free kick at the end of second half. Italy was lucky, that the ref didnt decide on penalty, because the foul started on the line of the box and ended up inside the box. A foul leading to a direct free kick in the area is a penalty, but nobody cares, because IMO if the ref says it's a free kick it is a free kick not a penalty, but I have seen refs deciding on penalty.

The second situation was in injury time when a cross from Odonkor came to your goal and if Schweinsteiger would have just kept running forward the ball would have just went into goal from his head, with no Canavaro or Buffon being there! But that would have been a lucky German victory.

So good luck for Italy in Berlin...I will support France this time, because I would like Zidane to lift the Cup again and make people stop talking about Pele or Maradona...really two of the best, but I cannot hear it anymore...
So maybe you will win this time, because I am supporting France...or should I support Italy instead???? ;-)

RE post 87 pilotasso

Get real. he never touched the ball and in reference to that "blatent" penalty for ronaldo, I reccomend he tries tieing his shoelaces before he come on the pitch next time. He was lucky to be on the pitch the amount of times he was shot by a sniper. Good to see he got the reception he deserved. Be a man and accept defeat, you never even came close to scoring.

After watching the game between Germany and Italy -I presume they watched it - I wonder whether Rio Ferdinand and Sven Goran Erikson will still be of the shared opinion that it is the result that matters and not the standard of football played.This match was a wonderful illustration of the best that soccer can offer as a spectator sport. The influence of profit making concerns, many of them reeking of shady practices has largely destroyed the beauty of the game in the Premier League and at internationl level. People like Ferdinand and Erikson have aided and abetted.Time for a rebirth in English soccer. Can't come quickly enough.If you're going to put families into debt by charging Dads exorbitant prices to bring their little ones to matches, at least give them something to smile about at the end of the game irrespective of the result.

About the national Anthem.
I am Italian, and I know very well that sunday there will be loads of Italians booeing during the French anthem.
It is all the same.. and it is sad.

@Andrea Post 50.

I aggree that the German team was on that day not concentrated enough. Espcially the younger players were to nervous in the beginning and not cool enough later in the Game.
The header from Podolski was a perfect example for that.

Thats why Italy deserved the win on that day.

And the lost of Frings (thanks to the Italy TV ...funny to see that Frings got hit before from the Argentian guy and this guy didn't get any penalty) did hurt our midfield badly for the offensive part.
His replacement Kehl did a good job for defense but not much for the offense as he was also to nervous.

But I totaly disagree to you about the German team being arrogant.
Sorry but to me and my european colleagues (french, spain, english dutch) won the Italian team again the number 1 title when it comes to arrogance and quite a few reactions from the italian players during that game showed it again.

I really hate diving and during my own football time I never ever did it but when an Italian guy does it the whole team congrats him for it, when the referee falls for it.
See the penalty against Australia.

But when somebody does it against Italy..they act like diving is the badest thing in the world and they would never ever do it themself.

Thats what I call dopplemoral and arrogance.

@Tom (116)
Well Tom, I wouldn`t take it as a given, that we would have won the penalty.
Try to see it this way: To stay on even level against Italy for 120 min would have been a tremendous success for our rather young team.
118 min is close, but no cigar. It`s good, but not good enough.
As one of my friends commented: I`d rather gone out on penalties than this way.
Yep, I feel exactly the same way.

But Italy ceased the opportunety and executed the goal masterfuly. (Damned, it still hurts to write this)
Anyway: Thanks Italy for this beautiful game. Next time :)

It's taken this WC for alot of English to realise what I've found for a long time. The Germans are generally a civilised and OK bunch. I've had a load of holidays in and around Cologne, Hamburg and the Ruhrpott..Always had a good time, though admittedly the frauleins had something to do with that. But..the atmosphere in the stadiums is good. The fans around the Ruhrpott are the best..Between Rhine and Weser, coal and steel. Borussia Dortmund versus Schalke. Real fans. crowds of 60,000. I've also been to Borussia Monchengladbach a couple of times.
So I was disappointed after seeing England go out, that Germany didn't go on. Klinsmann is a class act but a nice guy too (not just because he wrote to me when he came to Tottenham!)
The British tabloid press have alot to answer for. So-called journalists at The Sun have been writing anti-German stories for the last few months. Why? Just for commercial reasons or have they got some other political agenda??

Pleased the Portuguese got their KO. They cheated their way past England and Holland. Figo's agonised face clasping to get Bohlarouz sent off was a disgrace. Figo will never have my respect again, nor Deco.

But once again, the Germans made this WC what it was. Danke schoen und Auf Wiedersehen.