Where are you, Brian O'Driscoll? (174)
- 22 Sep 07, 08:39 PM
Paris - What hope an Irish miracle? The faces of the players as they wandered through the interview area in the bowels of the Stade de France on Friday told a story.
For them, the French match was THE one. has all but condemned them to an early exit, and don鈥檛 they know it.
A pall of hangs over the squad, despite the defiant mutterings of the captain and coach. Barring an astonishing turn of events next Sunday, the golden generation have missed the boat.
In retrospect we saw it coming. Talk of a 鈥渂acks to the wall鈥 performance, revelling in the underdog tag, and a camp 鈥済alvanised 鈥 by criticism may just have blurred the grim facts.
This Ireland side is back-pedalling. In fact it seems to have been in reverse gear since Vincent Clerc scuttled through to spoil the party at in the Six Nations.
It鈥檚 often said that a good side don鈥檛 become a bad one overnight. Ireland have managed it in a handful of months.
So what has happened? First the on-field stuff鈥.
The pack has lost its bite. Never an eight to instil fear in terms of sheer physical presence, they always made up for it with commitment, resolution and no little skill. They were rarely bullied, usually disciplined, and efficient at the set-piece. O鈥機onnell and O鈥機allaghan at their peak are among the best line-out operators in the world.
And where do you start with the backs? So often the conductor of the Irish orchestra, Ronan O鈥橤ara鈥檚 been missing his notes at every turn. Gone are the persistent pinpoint punts that lift his men. Gone is the swagger that signals his game is ticking. Gone is the ability to unleash his midfield.
Aaah the midfield. The dream ticket, the perfect pair, the scourge of past.
Where are you Brian O鈥橠riscoll? Where are the devilish angles, the dynamite breaks, the low-slung magic? Neither he nor Gordon D鈥橝rcy is hitting the line with any pace, or from any depth.
Radio 5 Live鈥檚 summariser Hugo MacNeill had his head in his hands last night during our commentary. Time after time he stressed that the lack of invention and fluency stemmed from three-quarters aligned in an ugly, flat formation. These are fundamentals.
And so to the off-field shenanigans. Even from this close range, seeing the squad on a daily basis, it鈥檚 impossible to decipher fact from fiction.
The over-worked Rumour Mill has players storming out, key men troubled by complicated non-rugby related issues, and simmering frustration at the isolated team base in .
There are more, but the stories are tall, and some of them have grown wings and flown off into the land of pure fantasy. What is abundantly clear is that the unsettled nature of the party is affecting performance. The bad karma off the pitch is finding its way onto it. Eddie O鈥橲ullivan seems powerless to do anything about it.
There鈥檚 a warbling sound close by. I think I can make out the fat lady warming up.
PS: In stark contrast to Ireland鈥檚 tortured progress, I was lucky enough to see 鈥檚 magnificent effort against the Springboks in Lens.
To see their brand of adventurous, ambitious rugby was a revelation, and but for a very dubious ruling over a forward pass, things just might have been different. We might have been discussing the biggest upset in World Cup history. are in for a scrap next Friday.
Alastair Eykyn is a Radio 5 live reporter specialising in rugby union, tennis and hockey. He is covering Ireland at the World Cup and you can see 5 live's full broadcast schedule here.
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Doesn't "where for art though" mean "why are you called"...i
I'm pretty sure he's called "O'Driscoll" because that's his father's surname...? But other than that, a very true column! Where has the Irish spark of 2 years ago gone?
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Wherefore = why. As in 'wherefore art thou Romeo? (Why did you have to go by that name and therefore be off limits to me?)
"Where for art thou" means nothing as far as I can fathom.
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i still think this irish team won't give up easily although o'gara must go, wallace will do a far better job than him, if only david humphreys was fit, he would make such a difference, ah the good old days, we aren't out yet but, the irish heads have dropped, especially rogs
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its really dissapointing to see one of the worlds best teams under perforing like this, its not just frustrating to the irish fans but fans of rugby worldwide. Eddie needs to regroup and focus on other players in the squad with what they can bring to the team, for example an attaching team for argentina with murphy in for dempsey. Alan Quinlan, Best, Paddy Wallace players that would be excited at the prospect of playing in a world cup, there is nothing to lose at this stage.
I think the irish public would agree too.
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David, You are a scholar and a gentleman.
Our former headline "Where for art thou, O'Driscoll?" is clearly wrong, so we've changed it.
Thanks for your eagle eyes.
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And you back pedal, not back peddle. Pedal as in bicycles, peddle as in to sell stuff.
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Sorry if I sounded pompous, guys. I was thinking of the children. For God's sake think of the children!!
On the subject of the rugby, any remaining hopes for Ireland seem to require a great deal of wish thinking. On the other hand, a four-try, eight-point win would hardly shake the foundations of the rugby world any more than it would offend against reason. The problem, I think we all agree, is that the Irish camp doesn't seem likely to be the source of such a spectacular reversal of fortunes any time soon. Nor do the Argentines seem in the mood to surrender their chance for glory.
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Although Ireland are playing spectacularly poorly at the moment, I think the amount of pressure people put on O'Driscoll is ridiculous. YES he is a great player, but he is still only 1 man. He cannot carry the team in these kind of games. If the team is going forward and functioning, O'Driscoll functions
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Although Ireland are playing spectacularly poorly at the moment, I think the amount of pressure people put on O'Driscoll is ridiculous. YES he is a great player, but he is still only 1 man. He cannot carry the team in these kind of games. If the team is going forward and functioning, O'Driscoll functions
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Although Ireland are playing spectacularly poorly at the moment, I think the amount of pressure people put on O'Driscoll is ridiculous. YES he is a great player, but he is still only 1 man. He cannot carry the team in these kind of games. If the team is going forward and functioning, O'Driscoll functions
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Like a patient 'etherised upon a table' our performances have resembled nothing more than waiting for a terminally ill relative to expire. 5 million at home and countless millions of the diaspora have been disappointed esp by the manner of our demise There was none of what we could always rely on passion spirit determination even humour and good sportsmanship.
I suspect players and mngt believed their publicity. Ultimately this debacle will yield positives and a return to core values in playing the game will be the most rewarding.
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Although Ireland are playing spectacularly poorly at the moment, I think the amount of pressure people put on O'Driscoll is ridiculous. YES he is a great player, but he is still only 1 man. He cannot carry the team in these kind of games. If the team is going forward and functioning, O'Driscoll functions
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"...a team who lived off passion and heart"
I wouldn't mind, only there's been no sign of either out there until last night... and then it was too little, too late.
Glad (in a manner of speaking) to hear I'm not the only one with head in hands, wondering why the backs are aligned so flat so that they're receiving ball and man when static, and thus unable to swerve, sidestep, pop a pass to a supporting runner (of which there are none; they're all static, too), or in fact do anything other than ride the tackle... losing a few metres if we're lucky and the support is there, losing possession if not.
I was but a simple front row man as a player, so perhaps someone can explain Eddie's tactical approach to me... he is, after all, a backs specialist.
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Ireland were rubbish. Every one of them. No leadership. Tears for the cameras during the "anthem" and BOD's silly stare were totally unconvincing and proved superficial.
EOS can spin all he wants and delve deep into his "Coaches book of Cliches" but next Sunday I'm off to the golf course. I've wasted enough of my time waiting for this "team" to perform.
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Where R U BOD?
Where R U Ireland?
Where R U 主播大秀 Nations?
Where is everybody (6N)?
Lets get real please!
The RWC is the real competition, no 6N/3N status quo restrictions, no PRO/Amateur discrimination, no top/lower tier/newbbies bullshit. And Ireland has showed its not up to it. Plain simple.
Media (specailly Irish media) pumped an ireal bubble with no real foundations. Yes, a couple of wins against weak NH teams or rusted SH teams pumpimg their pre-seasons, and (oh almost wins), serious candidates simply win (not almost).
Right now the 6N is the 2nd tier comeptition, SH teams are on another level, so even winning that doesn't mean you're a serious contender in the RWC.
A bit harsh maybe, but that's because I am angry.
Ireland putting 5 tries to the Argies..... Is EOS on drugs?? maybe that explins it.
NO TEAM, not even France has been able to put a single ball in their in-goal and now suddenly we can put 5 ?????? The only way 3 teams in a row (that made Ireland sweat by the way) could put some points on them was through long distance shots to their posts........ Lets get real!! Its over for us.
And that's why an angry, beacuse I want it to be over for us and all the so called home nations. Simply because they dont DESERVE any better.
I used to play rugby, and love this sport and I really feel that Argentina, Samoa, Tonga, Georgia, DESERVE to grab some results and get some reward.
Desire, Pride, Guts, Belief, Commitment. That's what you see in these teams, that's why Argentina hasn't received a single try: they go into every tackle as if their family's life depended on it.
These not so long ago amateurs, semi-amateurs and Pro for a few years, still have what this game is about.
I am sure their fans are PROUD of them. Is any NH fan really PROUD of their team......I doubt it. (Well, at least France showed some spirit to shake their light begining, maybe those are a bit).
Its time our 'it's only a job' attitude 'PROS', go home with their hands empty and meditate about what started them into this game.
As a lover of this sport, I get excited seeing this newbies and not so newbies (the pumas) play, can't imagine what their fans must feel..... I envy them.
Plain simple: Players, Where's your pride? Where's your guts? Where's your heart?
If you're not ready lo leave your soul on that jersey, simply quit. If you are not ready to leave your blood and heart on the line, don't bother to come, leave the place for some one who is, and start showing some respect to the supportive crowd that want's to believe in you!!
We're out, (and we deserve to be out) but I hope against Argentina these players show some selfpitty, and bang their life out of their bodies in every move.
Yes, play recklessly (forget EOS tactics, they've haven't worked anyway), but at least make us feel there's hope for the future.
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to comment #8,
I'm sorry but you can't win 3 triple crowns by being 'lucky'. The talent is there, as was seen at Croke park earlier this year, it's just the consistency that's the problem. Ireland took a while to get going in most of the 6N this year, and if anything were unlucky not to win - last minute tries against them vs. france & italy and then a last minute by france v scotland meaning they lost by 3 points difference (if I remember correctly).
They seem to be a very nervous team recently, and are playing without any confidence - all moves are so conservative. But even that's not working, since O'Gara ain't on form. He's been missing touch and putting ones straight out all championship. Eddie needs a serious rethink and to motivate the side some. They look (although not as much as england v. SA) as though they don't want to be there. Marginally improved display vs. France (who seem to know how to play the ref), needs to be a lot better against Argentina.
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impartial criticism are you a french journalist?
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Reference back-peddle (posting no.6) I'm not so sure it's wrong - the coach has spent so long peddling the merits of his backs, it's all the more shocking when they don't show up!!! This is the chance, totally agree with those who are saying, 'Bring in a few new faces' - the old ones aren't going to cut it against Argentina, not when they went missing for the previous three games. It's a shameful waste of barnstorming, beautiful talent - and as an 'Anglo' I'm suffering from both sides of the water!
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No.8 wishes to provoke genuine debate. I offer the following.
Yes, of course it is deeply frustrating that Ireland has failed to win the 6 nations of late but I think it is true to say that if you look at the combined performance of all six teams since 2000/2001 Ireland's win/loss ratio is right up there with England and France.
As for being the luckiest team in that time, surely that prize must go to the Wales grand-slam XV. how they won that game in Paris is still a mystery.
not sure its true we have struggled that much against Scotland since 2001. some pretty hefty victories in there.
It is probably true we have allowed ourselves to think the team was somewhat better than it was but it was not unreasonable to hope for a semi-final place this time round, based on all the evidence.
And that of course is the problem. For once in my lifetime (40 years watching the team) the Irish rugby supporter has allowed hope to become expectation - never again
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Dont be harsh on Ireland or EOS.
Ireland were at the top table for a couple of years, they now are a second or third tier nation, where they should be, given the numbers playing rugby in Ireland. A few triple crowns and nearly grand slams is not to bad. Well done EOS.
Its not that long ago winning 2 games in the 5/6 nations was classed as success.
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Scotland seem to be the forgotten team out there. A stranger in our own backyard. I picked up a Mitre RWC ball which displayed the flags of the top 11 nations, Scotlands flag was missing. ITV coverage talkes about all the NH sides except Scotland. The only time Scotland is mentioned is when discussed from NZ point of view.
Yet we put away Portugal 56-10 and Romania 42-0. Have any of the other home nations done as well yet? I switch ITV off until the whistle goes to start the game because all I hear is England...England...NZ..SA..England..
GET SOME BALANCED COVERAGE!!! There are 20 teams in the competition not 4!!
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I the comments left above stating that Ireland have been lucky, i feel is just rather insulting towards the irish players. They have played fantastically well over the 6 nations for the past 3 yrs. There is obviously going to be some poorer performances over the 3 yrs. Recently they have gone flat all the top players in the team haven't played for a up to 5 months. This is a mistake by the EOS They should have travelled to Argentina, by not sending the gave the puma's momentum and that is exactly what you dont want to give a team that is in your group.
I think is more coaching problems than the players, playing a everything at a frantic pace failing to build platforms which in turns means you cannot run any patterns.
Against the lesser nations like Georgia & Namibia, i feel the draw was not favorable towards the Irish. Both nations were so up the games there defense was frantic knocking players back in all the tackles which means it is very hard to get any fluency. And this is when the game needed to be slowed down but the irish went the other direction and played high risk rugby.
Irish confidence was gone from start and without confidence you are never go to go any were unfortunatly
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I guess Im the only argentine guy who reads from these south lands these website, and to answer MarkMar22, yes we feel really proud of the guys out there. Specially with how our team and Loffreda showed respect to the opposing teams we have played against in the last 8 years and still in the present.
Argentina does deserve a regular competition to develop our game. Anyhow, there are big chances that after a big amount of retiring pumas next year, Argentina will become a more "beatable" team. This will be again a good excuse for the IRB out there to relegate us.
In this team everyone pulls to the same side, no matter if they are out or in the initial 22 players. I respect all of our rivals, but I really enjoyed the time beating france, not only for the simple sport fact, but to shut up a little bit "Mr" Laporte. In a similar way I think about EOS, BOD and POC, whose cocky commentaries I try to ignore.
Anyhow, let the best team win.
slawn-agit!!!
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Are Ireland a lucky team?
As a proud Irishman watchin irish sport for the last 30 years we have never had any luck at anything so it can't be that must be that we were/are a good rugby team that is goin through a crises that only EOS and the team know about and unfortunally it is and will destroy our world cup.Now d'ont get me wrong i live in oz and didn't believe we would win it knowin how strong the SH teams are but i did expect the team to be organised to be displined and to be wearin the jersey with passion and pride and i agree with a previous comment that the crocadile tears at the start for the cameara s was a little cringe full.We do not have a chance against the argies they have come to win games and progress through the RWC and for some reason only known to the team and management we do not want to be there so i urge the team and o'sullivan either go home and save the best supporters in the world some hard earned dosh.or else take off the shackles and play the type of rugby that up to the last few months you we famous for.
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not as good as they themselves thought they were.I
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Poor display from England, a shadow of their previous world cup team.
Some embarrassing cheating around the ruck... won't be tolerated by the Aussies, Kiwis, Saffers.
Quite honestly, England have a snowflakes' chance in hell of winning.
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If the rumour mill is true and there is dissension/unhappiness at the camp, it would make giving your best on the field very difficult.
However given that this is going to be the last World Cup for many of the lads i feel sure that they will try their level best to do something against the "Argies" and so continue along Glory's road.
Right now they need our support, understanding and encouragement.
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Ever see that episode of Fathed Ted where the last of the alcohol drains from Father Jack's system and he comes to, looks around at his surroundings and announces 'Oh Jaysus, don't tell me I'm still on that feckin' island?
I reckon Brian O'Driscoll goes to sleep every night dreaming of being an All Black and wakes up to see Girvan 'Will I give it a hoof, I will, I'll give it a hoof' Dempsey in the bed across from him and has a similar reaction to Father Jack.
If we're looking for someone to blame for this whole debacle, O'Driscoll is well down the line. His personal performance has been solid enough. There's very little he can do alone. For all Gordon Darcy's strengths, I think O'Driscoll's best performances in an Irish shirt have usually come when playing alongside a no frills hard yards battering ram (Maggs, Henderson) at inside centre. Anyway it's all immaterial now, this world cup is over for us. It's been an absolute shocker right enough and when the inquest begins O'Driscoll's reputation as a captain/leader will hardly be enhanced but give the guy a break. He is the least of our problems.
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Re:8
BOD has been a Get Out of Jail card for Ireland on occasion - notably Wales last year and he was absent last year.
BOD is a good player (were you suggesting otherwise) his performances v the All Blacks in NZ last time for Ireland were outstanding.
Currently: Hugo MacNeil may be correct and the Irish backs alignment may have gone off - I thought they were better against France but a) the number of turn-overs has been so high they are tending to lie flat b) the oppositions have learned how to line up against a good mid-field - look at the numbers against them in Paris the other night
The Irish forwards are too small - don't have the upper body strength for extended mauling and teams like Georgia can exhaust them and out fight them - they have to keep the ball moving - because Ireland insist on "footballers" players like N Best are only used as injury replacement
The national selection policy recently has been mystifying - and has killed the morale of the up and coming players some of whom should have been spending a lot more time on the Pitch. e.g. a lot of effort went into accommodating Carney - who hasn't appeared on the bench even yet - the effort whoudl have been spent working with Murphy and Trimble who are great strike runners but need more game time to fit them into the team (as they are not Munster or Leinster players).
One set of tactics has been used. Even France(a bit disastroously?), England have used high numbers of players but have asked them to play their own game. Ireland has one set of tactics and players have to fit this model.
I didn't see the Scotland game but I saw the Italy match on TV - Neil Best was MoM in a dire performance overall - interestingly GM played well - Hickie was selfish and lost a try going for his record score which he hasn't got yet.........
The NI commentators were quite alarmed - the forwards were awful - Italt scored a try like the Georgian one when they were trying to force a score - and Ireland only got a win in the last minutes when Trimble released ROG with a forward pass and then a very dodgy touch-down was awarded.
As I have written before - Tony Ward in Irish Independent predicted that Ireland would not perform but I think even he would be shocked.
Ireland haven't gone with a Squad - they haven't been able to make tactical changes - gradually the wheels have started coming off one by one - but it started in the forwards...
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I don't understand why u are blaming BOD. O'Gara did not suply his centres with a single decent ball in 80 minutes.
BOD麓s defense was terrific. His tackle to the French full-back was one of the best of the Tournament so far.
Ireland's problems seem to start in number 4 and finish in n潞 10...
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Poster No.8 - you make a good synopsis, although perhaps overly harsh in terms of devil's advocacy. I think the performances against Aus and Safa, convincing though they were, were a form book blip. In this year's 6N we: folded against a French side that were there for the taking; were made to look very good by the worst English side, certainly in 20 years and perhaps, in my lifetime; and were flattered by the scoreline in Italy (3 of the tries were not tries). We were a good side but we needed to push on in 2006 - the New Zealand tour being our zenith - and we failed to do so, in no small part because of EOS's refusal to develop any fringe players. I hoped that Georgia was the nadir of our slump but, either way, I fear we have a couple of years rebuilding ahead of us and O'Sullivan is not the man to do that.
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Agree with David re Scotland. The only 6N team who have been quietly improving results in the run up to the WC.
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It was terribly disappointing in Paris. I must admit I have never been a fan of his, I would prefer to have seen Warren Gatland at the helm. He has pedigree and his sucess at WASPs proves my point. I couldn't imagine EOS bring the same sucess to any team. People talk about the triple crowns he won, rubbish. He had an exceptional group of players to pick from. I firmly believe that it is extremely easy to manage/train a team of talented players which ireland had and that EOS was carried by their brilliance rather than his management skills bringing the best out of them.The teams picked themselves, now there were a few problems and he got the balance/decisions totally wrong. opinions can differ but his dropping of Murphy was very wrong, introduction of Duffy was plain stupid, whatever about Hickey.
We can blame the players etc etc but they didn't control their own preparations to WC. With hind sight this preparation was extremely unprofessional and naive. EOS has to carry the can for that. It is great that an Irishman is in charge but surely there must be someone else.
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Well they just have to go for it. The at-the-time-much-lauded Italians were put to the sword by the Irish backs in Rome last March (?) and we'll have to have that kind of gung-ho attitude. Highly unlikely considering Argentina's awesome defence, yes, but regardless, we have to give it a lash and actually play "high-risk" rugby.
Think Murphy should be given a chance, recall Hickie as well. (If only Contepomi could be playing alongside Darcy, B'od et al).
Personally i think "where are you Ronan O'gara?" would be more appropriate as a headline.
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By the way the real reasons for Ireland's underwhelming world cup thus far...
a) Nobody likes Ireland's call
b) We don't like kicking off at 9pm
We'll be kicking off at 5pm next Sunday I think, so therefore I predict we will produce our best performance so far (whether it's enough I can't say) and be home in time for tea.
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As an Irishman living out of Ireland i feel ashamed at the display of our team. Even during national anthems our boys do not participate with pride as other teams do-where is the spirit of yesterday.
Give us a new captain as clearly
O Driscoll is not leading by example.
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Celebrity hype taking another victim? The media coverage not only for the Irish XV but most other teams is taking the players' and their management's eye off of the essential.....COMMITMENT. Well done
Argentina who seem to have escaped the scourge.
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Finally we can realise that the triple crown is a worthless tag only gloated upon by dreamers. Triple crown means not the best in the second best international competition. Worthless.
Ireland have become arrogant about their abilities rather than confident. This means they expect to win just by turning up, the mighty Namibia and Georgia should have been enough of a kick up the arse to have brought that unfounded idea down with a crash, but no, another second rate performance by a "world class" team . No offence but there are only 2 world class players in the Irish squad and Geprdan murphy didn't even make the 22 for France.
A string of ropey wins aginst poor opposition does not make a team world class.
The Irish public and press are more similar than their Ebglish counterparts than they would like to be. Masses of expectation based on nothing of merit.
England were ranked no1 in the world when they won in 2003. They are now 7th but the expectation remain, as it does of Ireland, ranked 5th with "3 triple crowns on the bounce".
Oh to be a rugby player and not be representing New Zealand!!!!
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IN responce to #22 Frisk. The irish being lucky is insulting to the players... They deserve to be insulted, slaped about and given a hard time. If they cant do the job with a minimum of pride and guts, then move over and let someone who does have a go. I remember the days when other nations feared the irish fighting spirit. We rarely won back then but you could hold your head up high.
Finaly, on EOS.Get rid of him now. I think someone like Roy Keane is more what we need now. Who cares he knows nothing about rugby. He'll find the 15 hungriest guys in the squad and won't let them back down as long as they are still able to walk of the pitch. I reckon that would give us a performance we could be proud of.
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to whoever says wallace must be in for rog. what the hell? p llace is terrible! he is awful and cannot cope. rog hasnt had a great wc but neither has anyone else and it's ridiculous to dsuggest he has to go. such fair weather fans. as for those calling for the return of humphreys, well it's pathetic. ronan is 10 times better than he was. i hate the singling out of one player. rog is still the best. wallace is crap. how can anyone suggest him. ill support ronan all the way. fair weather fans are typical of ireland really.
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Brian o'Driscoll must be frustrated playing RU,after watching France V Ireland and all that kicking involved.When you watch a game of Rugby you expect to see a bit of Rugby being played.Over 100 kicks between to two teams,no wonder O'Driscoll is nowhere to be seen.O'Driscoll should consider turning to RL,it might take a few months to get fit but he will seen allround Rugby action that's for sure.
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I used to like watching Ireland, as an Englishman. I supported them as my second team. Until I lived abroad and had to watch rugby from an Irish bar. And had Irish people screaming and laughing in my face whenever England lost at anyTHING to anyBODY. Now I revel in seeing Ireland lose, I enjoy watching them pathetically capitulate, I laugh that even though they're a much more talented team than England they aren't gonna make the final eight and we are! An amazing generation of players Completely Wasted. Ha, what a joke!
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You cannot blame him for the fact that the pack is not producing any go forward ball.He is doing more work than the bloody pack with clearing out rucks and making tackles and grappling on the deck.He is getting every ball as if its first phase possession becuase its so slow and its almost impossible to break down,he has no decoy runners and the fact that o gara has been atrocious does not help one bit, o'g has no confidence so all the passes are safe and he's not putting the ball in front of the centres or even challenging the defensive line.You've gotta look further inside to find the root of the the problem.
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"Gone are the persistent pinpoint punts that lift his men" writes alistair in the article above when commenting on ronan o'gara. But therein lies one of the key difficulties this irish side faces - the sheer one dimmensionalness of their game!
The so called success of the last few years - if by 'success' you mean no grand slams or championships - has been largely based on preying upon other teams mistakes, with no better example of this being at cardif this year when an ultra defensive ireland did a smash and grab job on wales.
It is an old adage that you make your own luck in sport and ireland havent had much because they dont deserve it! Avoid mistakes against ireland and they have very little to offer in its place, as france so cruely confirmed on friday nite!
Ireland's boring safety first 10 man game has been rumbled in this world cup and they will deservedly be going home before the quater finals start (the 2nd time in 3 world cups for ireland i believe) While to the writer who claimed wales were 'lucky' to win the grand slam in 2005 i would point out that wales won the grand slam that year - something ireland has not done for 60 years - playing an exhilerating brand of attacking 15 man rugby! It was this style and flair that won them that game in paris he writes about!
A little of the same style and flair from ireland earlier on during this tournament and they might not be going home next week!
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Just read the website write up of the Argentina/Namibia match and am very confused by the points difference Ireland need to go second in the group. Surely it can't just be a bonus point and to beat them by 7 points, their comparative points differences are miles apart!!
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I wouldn't say they have been on a downward trend sice the France Six Nations game. After all, they went on to win every one of their remaining six nations games, including a victory by a margin of 30 points over England.
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#21 David wrote that Scotland were not getting enough coverage and wants some balance in coverage. Considering our lack of ambition in putting out a second string side to play NZ I think we don't deserve much coverage. Are we tring to devalue the RWC? I'm sure if we were playing England then the first team would be out.
With regards to Ireland, I feel sorry for them. The RWC has come a year to late for this generation of players. Over the last 3 years they have been arguably the best 6 nations side and would have made more of an impact 12 months ago.
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Let's hope that they don't progress as now it would be good if Argentina top the group and progress and France out next round.
What's the point of going through now anyway as the All Blacks will destroy us! Better to get out of it now and Argentina do deserve it. They will prove it anyway.
Grand Slam anyone?
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the problem with the ireland team is they started to believe their own hype, and Eddie O'Sullican has made some shocking selections.... It would be a miracle to get 4 tries against Argentina... but if he picks the right team and we get the first try then miracles of munster type proportions could happen....
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According to Louise: "i hate the singling out of one player. rog is still the best. wallace is crap. how can anyone suggest him. ill support ronan all the way. fair weather fans are typical of ireland really."
1. I'll not even bother to point out the mass of contradictions...
2. So are one-eyed "fans" in the literal sense ("fanatics"), it seems.
3. We can't honestly tell if Wallace is crap or not because Eddie won't play him.
Hysterical fangirl hyperbole about O'Gara aside, is Ronan performing to the standard required of such a pivotal position? Computer says "No."
Will Ireland need to run a lot of ball to have a snowball's chance of getting the result we require against Argentina? Yes.
Would Wallace be a better player to spark a running game? Hard to tell, since the 9-10-12 combination would beuntried, but bear in mind a lot of his rugby has been at centre and fullback for Ulster so his distribution and use of space is likely to be better than that of a predominantly kicking out-half.
Will he, and the other players left unused, have the hunger to take the game to the Argentineans? Yes.
Do we have anything to lose by radically shaking up the side for the last throw of the dice? Nope, because the incumbent 15 aren't going to beat Argentina. Many of the rest of the squad are moreorless development players (by definition, since they were only given a few minutes here and there). Give 'em a lash and some experience, see who might cut it at this level.
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AG BRACE. As an Irish man living in England I can tell you that every nationality, not just Irish, hate to see England win. The reason is that when you do win anything you brag about it for the next 40 years - 1966 etc, etc, yet you seem to easily forget other historical events
Oh yeah and that English Referee was definetly paid off on Friday night - gave France 4 penalties under the posts in the first half and whenever Ireland were in a promising position the penalties always went the other way.
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AG BRACE. As an Irish man living in England I can tell you that every nationality, not just Irish, hate to see England win. The reason is that when you do win anything you brag about it for the next 40 years - 1966 etc, etc, yet you seem to easily forget other historical events
Oh yeah and that English Referee was definetly paid off on Friday night - gave France 4 penalties under the posts in the first half and whenever Ireland were in a promising position the penalties always went the other way.
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All I have to say is that I have been looking forward to this world cup for the last 3 years, and looking forward to ireland giving, at the very least, a decent account of themselves. Personally I'm disgusted and disappointed. You can blame this person and that person, but the fact is 30 players and a management team travelled to France for this world cup and every last one of them who has been involved is to blame.
Whatever may be said of our loss to France, I have a feeling that we'll Argentina and that it will be the ridiculous 14-10 victory over georgia that will put us out of this world cup. I won't be looking forward to the next one - let's hope i'll be pleasantly surprised.
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...seems to me the irish adopted the wrong tactics. against france o'gara continually kicked aimlessly thus giving away possession. that's why the backs were lying flat because they knew exactly what was going to happen. contrast the intelligent and creative way in which they played against france in the 6 nations, a game they were so unlucky to lose. by the way, the tactical kicking out of hand by the northern hemisphere teams has been appalling...
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Embarresing or is that embarrassing or should it be I am bare assing...cause frankly, the team the management the setup is all crap.
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Its not why are you called Romeo? because Romeo is the first name, its why are you Romeo? as in why are you who you are?
And BOD has probably been a bit off colour in the RWC because he hasn't had the quality ball that he usually relies on.
I still wonder if the tournament isn't a bit too early for the northern hemisphere teams. The Southern Hemisphere are battle hardened and match fit, mostly the Northern Hemisphere still look a bit off the pace. If this remains the timing of the world cup, September/ october, rather than October/November, then maybe the Northern Unions need to look at having summer tours in World Cup years later on in the year, maybe July/August?
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Argentina will not be beaten by more than 7 points with 4 tries being scored against them in the process. You are talking about a victory in the region of 33-13. Not possible.
However what is possible is a small victory, enough to give the group to France.
I fancy sending France to Cardiff to play New Zealand in the quarter finals, and Arguentina to go on to play Scotland and give them the romantic trip to the semis.
For this reason this Irishman will be supporting Argentina against Ireland next week.
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Who on earth approved the colours worn by Scotland and NZ? I couldn't tell who was who especially in profile.Goodness knows how the match officials coped.. Those spectators at Murrayfield should ask for their money back! The similarity totally ruined my enjoyment of the match
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Its not why are you called Romeo? because Romeo is the first name, its why are you Romeo? as in why are you who you are?
And BOD has probably been a bit off colour in the RWC because he hasn't had the quality ball that he usually relies on.
I still wonder if the tournament isn't a bit too early for the northern hemisphere teams. The Southern Hemisphere are battle hardened and match fit, mostly the Northern Hemisphere still look a bit off the pace. If this remains the timing of the world cup, September/ october, rather than October/November, then maybe the Northern Unions need to look at having summer tours in World Cup years later on in the year, maybe July/August?
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England, Ireland and France (in the Argentina game) got what they deserved for not being prepared. In the case of France they were surprised by the passion of Argentina, in the case of England and Ireland they just don't have the players. Beefing up lightweight or aging players will never work. Lets just say all the northern hemisphere teams need to improve so why don't we get together and work out a better club/regional structure like the Super 14 to help us all. Oh and stop importing the southern hemisphere old boys in key positions!
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Argentina will not be beaten by more than 7 points with 4 tries being scored against them in the process. You are talking about a victory in the region of 33-13. Not possible.
However what is possible is a small victory, enough to give the group to France.
I fancy sending France to Cardiff to play New Zealand in the quarter finals, and Arguentina to go on to play Scotland and give them the romantic trip to the semis.
For this reason this Irishman will be supporting Argentina against Ireland next week.
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England, Ireland and France (in the Argentina game) got what they deserved for not being prepared. In the case of France they were surprised by the passion of Argentina, in the case of England and Ireland they just don't have the players. Beefing up lightweight or aging players will never work. Lets just say all the northern hemisphere teams need to improve so why don't we get together and work out a better club/regional structure like the Super 14 to help us all. Oh and stop importing the southern hemisphere old boys in key positions!
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Expectation - a very cruel mistress, yes Philip,93, never again for me either. Been through the mill of the 80s/90s also!
Perhaps something that effects the All Blacks as well with their current WC record and overwhelming public demand ?
This is newer to the Irish and we are not dealing with it well.
Hope - is a kinder companion. Can we put 4 tries past the Pumas and win by 7? Come down to base camp in planet earth? Or believe anything is possible?
I will always go with the latter. And will always follow the team not matter what.
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This has been the most depressing disappointing RWC. So much promised so little delivered.
This didnt start a couple of weeks ago but when Munster and Leinster were dumped out of the European Cup. That and the underperformance in Argentina that was glossed over as being a 2nd team (playing incidentaly an Argentinian 3rd side) then Scotland Bayonne and Italy.... the writing was on the wall.
These are not bad players but badly prepared, managed and motivated. The person responsible for this should resign.
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Where has it all gone wrong well maybe this offers us answers?
I been hearing for years that France don鈥檛 travel well, but what about us, well our overseas record is disastrous. All our big wins over the last few years have come at home.
While away from HQ this year we scraped past Wales and Scotland, then we go and loose twice to Argentina in the summer, then we fall to Scotland, and almost lost to Namibia and Georgia and now France trash us yet again!
I like most Irish people today feel disappointed that our dream has died. I鈥檓 not angry, but frustrated as to why our talented team hasn鈥檛 delivered. This is a team of great players, but yesterday none of them offered anything. Even ODriscoll was average.
Blame EOS, blame the ref, blame the selection, but maybe there simply isn鈥檛 one.
Sure EOS has been terrible with his decision to field pretty much the same team for all 3 matches and not to use his bench. This is a repeat of the same mistake he made 4 years ago. But who do you bring on, there鈥檚 no depth to our squad which we now realize, and the reason is because EOS never tinkers with his formations.
Look at the ABs and Henrys approach, when they visited the British Isles 3 years back he played two totally different sides in games, we though this was crazy but they spanked us. But now we see that it made sense to blood guys in the case of injury or loss of form while throwing them into the coalface of international rugby.
We don鈥檛 have the quality that they have to play two different teams, but we should have mixed up a little over the last 4 years.
Redden should have been given game time over the last few years, so to should have Jeremy Staunton at out half, or Bob Casey in the second row and the talented Heaslip in the back row. It鈥檚 also sad that this is our best team with no injuries and this is the results were getting in return.
EOS should have gone from the team when we lost to France in Paris two years ago but the second half display kept him in a job, and its always been whispered that that second half came from the heart and not his tactics sheet.
Time for a change, but who? Bradley isn鈥檛 ready for it, Gatland would never take it back, maybe Ruddock would be interested.
As for the refs performance, who has come in for a great deal of flak in the aftermath. Well I watched the match in Spanish in South America and I couldn鈥檛 understand the commentary, so I had an impartial view to the game. My opinion on the ref was that he wasn鈥檛 bad at all, he was tough yes, but consistent. Wallace got a talking to for standing on Chabal, but so did Ibanez for his dance. Our discipline was terrible and we were lucky not to have had somebody in the bin long before we did. He was ticking us off constantly, and the players should grasp their limitations, but they didn鈥檛 and they paid the price. As for the two tries that were not given, I think we were more than fortunate. The first looked good to me and so did the second, remember when Shane Byrne did the same trick with Mal OKelly a few years back?
The selection for yesterday鈥檚 game was about right, many people were saying Neil Best should have been on. The truth is that Neil best hasn鈥檛 been the same player that we saw against the Aussies or the South Africans and so I don鈥檛 feel he would have made any difference.
Our forwards stood up well in the scrum. Our line out was a shambles, we lost too many to count and we hardly contested the oppositions which was very sad to witness. And our back line which received hardly any ball offered no penetration what so ever, no fluidity, no breaking runs, a waste of talent. I though we have at least one or two nice back plays up our sleeves to open their defense for this game but there was nothing what has EOS being doing for the last 6 months?
3.Horan was bad, stupid tackle from an off side position.
5.The Bull was ok.
3.Flannery is not at his best either, throwing was terrible.
5.OConnell, mediocre.
4.OCallaghan, below par.
6.Easterby, played well-ish.
4.Wallace, a shadow of himself.
2.Leamy, hopeless.
6.Redden, hard game to be thrown into but played well enough.
5.OGara, below average.
3.Darcy, nothing.
5.ODriscoll, one superb tackle and not much more.
3.Trimble, nervous.
3.Horgan, bad day at the office.
5.Dempsey, same ol same ol.
For the Argentina game Id like to see
Best given a run in place of Wallace.
Ferris on the bench for Leamy.
OKelly for his line out abilities in place of OCallaghan.
Id like to see Darcy dropped, but for who?
Murphy on the bench or in place of Dempsey. The thing is Murphy hasn鈥檛 played well at international level since he broke his leg 4 years ago, but maybe it鈥檚 worth a shot.
And Carney for Trimble. Carney will break tackles and this is what we need. EOS needs balls to give him a run, but look how Woodward did with Billy Whiz, so what have we got to loose.
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AG Brace - and you wonder why we get such enjoyment out of watching you lose? At least we can admit that we have imploded and have not performed to our high expectations. You lot are just plain rubbish and have been for four years. Come on Tonga
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Since the win against England at Croke Park, every Irish team has performed poorly (Munster, Leinster, Ulster and the national side).
Two factors contribute to this:
The teams, barring injury, pick themselves - so there is no real competition for places.
The median age of the players on the national team is 29.
They are over the top.
You need hunger and edge to win a championship - ask the Kerry footballers.
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That picture of Serge Bentsen intecepting a ball meant for O'Driscoll sums it up, doesn't it? Excellent shot.
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That picture of Serge Bentsen intecepting a ball meant for O'Driscoll sums it up, doesn't it? Excellent shot.
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Enough, enough, we can dissect and dissect. Lets move on and look to the future. Maybe this is the kick up the arse we all needed. Lets not make the same mistake as the English and keep faith in the old! Lets kick start with a fresh team for our final game - try this for size (unfortunately with the squad that is available the choices are limited, however it is good to see the lads in the provinces this weekend doing well and there is some fantastic talent coming through):
S Best
Flannery
Hayes
O'Connell
O'Callaghan
Leamy
N Best
Easterby
Reddan
Wallace
O'Driscoll
Horgan
Carney
Murphy
Dempsey
Subs
Hickie
O'Gara
Boss
O'Kelly
Sheahan
Quinlan
Young
Lets get some spring in the backs and give Argentina something to worry about! Lets finish in style.
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Hi there,
I suggest Ireland should stop talking, and play Rugby.
That麓s the only way they'll be able to save face against LOS PUMAS.
Remember you are not facing an accidentally lucky Team.
Argentina has proved to be one of the most succesful countries in sport.
Twice Fifa world champions, and second in actual FIFA reports, our Golfers have just won the US Open and are ranked as the third world power, our Hockey team has been World champions recently, and compete in the Four Nations World Tournament. We are actual olympic gold medalists and runner ups in last Basketball World Cup.
No country can match 4 Handycap "10" Polo Teams and even get near to our Polo world Champions.
Unfortunatelly we do not practice Beer Drinking or Darts. Just give us some time and we'll also be in the elite of those sports.
Durin more then a decade we麓ve had at least 5 tennis players between the top 20.
Now its Rugby time. I麓m Sorry, you'll have to go back without qualifiyng.
But think that it isn't bad luck!!!
You麓re playing against an argentine team, and we die for our colours!!!
Regards
Andrew
Buenos Aires
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Sorry to insist (my comment is No 15).
Let's face the truth! I have read comments about preparation, test matches, timimg of the RWC????
The problem is even deeper than that (won't write again my long comment on 15) on top of this another long comment.
Of course that thats important, but there's essence missing before that becomes important.
Do you think Georgia, Namibia and Tonga are well prepared?? They prectice three days a week, for god's sake, they are amateurs!!!! While our guys have people evaluating every meal they have, their muscle tiredness, their work load, etc.
Do you think Samoa, Georgia, Portugal have budgets to hire fancy hyper-published coaches and strategists??
Timing of RWC...70% of the Argentinian team play in the Northen hemisphere (France).......
Back to my initial comment (No 15): COMMITMENT, PRIDE, DESIRE, HUNGER, PASSION, that's the problem with these NH teams. These so called PROS (cold blooded cotton treated hypes) deserve to go back home, hand empty and meditate after a bath of humbleness.
Have you seen the newbies games? They have to have their knees and backs iced every 15 minutes....and still they get up and sweat their blood off in the next move. Don't come me with preparation.
These under-prepared, under-managed, relegated (they have no serious competition before they get here thanks to the IRB/6N/3N establishment), have showned us what's this is about.
Only after that, tactics, etc will make sense.
Sadly, I don't want Ireland to win. Argentina DESERVES better. But at least I hope our guys go out and play reckless, defiant and proud rugby, even if this means we will recieve several tries.
Ireland never was a result, '10 year in a row' tournament winner, but every time someone played against us they respected us, they knew they would have to sweat their shirts and commit to the match or they would have a difficult time playing against a passionate and proud side.
I want that back! and from there start building back.
That was Irish identity (proud identity that made the country have one of the most supportive fans in the world) until this EOS, and highly publicied BOD, NOD's and i-POD's gave their back (but not their wallets) to more than 100 years of tradition.
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Ref Post 40 by Louise - ROG has been the worst Irish player at the world cup - although closely followed by many. He never had any flair, couldn't run but was a great kicker out of hand and for the posts. Wallace has flair he makes the gaps, he gets the line moving and can kick the goals. Let him have a chance - its a bit late to have to give him his first start against Argentina in a must win game but EOS has himself to blame. Namibia and Georgia was the time to play him for 30 mins but thats too sensible for EOS - don't play your bench until 75 mins. Face up it to it on the present form of ROG, Humph would have kicked the territory, got the line moving and kicked the points against the 2 minnows and would have done the same against France ( we may still have lost but not so badly )even at his advancing years based on the form of ROG. EOS give the others a chance - because they can do no worse than what you think is your best 15 players. If there are major changes it wont be EOS picking the team !
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It's nonsense to say that Ireland have been in decline since the French match at Croke Park - what about the hammering of England and Italy soon after?
No, there's a lot more to it - over training, staleness, not ot mention off the field problems which have obviously affected O'Gara in particular - and, dare I mention it, the completely ineffective coach!! What we need is a non-Irish coach who will be impartial, and not subject to pathetic little episodes of favouritism and blind stupidy eg exclusion of Murphy and Neil Best, and inclusion of Easterby and Dempsey.
Eddie, you've blown it for your countrymen, for Ireland, go now!!
NB Well done BOD for at last singing Ireland's Call, I was so impressed by that! COME ON IRELAND, we can hammer the Pumas and have a go at the All Blacks!
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#58. Agree with Stan Jonas who's idea was the strips. Could not tell who was who....especially with neither side playing particularly well.
The NZ haka, I have never seen that variation before, anyone know what it was about? I think NZ were upset with Scotland and seemed to want to pummel our forwards into the dust at all costs.
Hadden was right, NZ would have beaten us today no matter what. If we put out our best side NZ would just have stepped up. I'll take 40 to zip with a smile (England 0 - SA 36)and call it mission accomplished. Italy is the game we need to win to make the quarters why waste the chance to give NZ a try out. Has everyone in the tourney fielded their best 15 for every game? No, so why should NZ get special treatment.
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why have Ireland failed?
1 - Strength in depth. This team has picked itself for the last 3/4 years, barely anyone new has come into the team. This implies there is not much competition behind the scenes so when the poor performances roll in how do you change it? Do you bring in untried players who for a long time have not been considered any good, or do persevere with the old hands?
Ireland are struggling big time because this 'Golden' team have become stale. No new ideas and more importantly, no big match winning experience. Plenty of attempts, but choking wins you nothing.
2 - EOS is losing the team. Geordan Murphy is one of the most talented footballers in the world. He plays as unused sub against Georgia, yet finds himself part of the cull! That would imply something is going on behind the scenes that EOS has to control but is not.
This golden age of Irish rugby has turned into an also ran. Shame.
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ireland look particularly poor and you cant blame the ref,thats pathetic,we are not that good and we need to be realistic about our expectations,when England won the 2003world cup they were a great side although much better in 2002,and were clearly no 1 in the world ,we were flatteredby alow standard 6nations,a bit of humility to others will do us a world of good !Clive Woodward for manager?
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Trust an Englishman to wade in and turn it round to why 'everybody hates us'! Well guys, as an Anglo-Irishman living in England and actually liking the place, I've heard a little too much about English 'bragging' that, were it to come from anybody else, would be accepted for enjoying past successes when you're none too certain of repeating them. The fact is Kieran, nobody - but NOBODY - in England has been pretending their team is going to win the cup, but there was a fair bit of inflated confidence coming out of the Irish camp, that in fine old English tradition, fairly sets them up for a fall. It's one thing bragging about something you won 40 years ago (although English rugby fans don't have to go back quite that far) but bragging about what you're GOING to win, and then not delivering it, just makes you look stupid. This side had the ability - but they've turned up believing their own publicity, and it's hard to see them digging themselves out of the hole they've landed in.
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It's nonsense to say that Ireland have been in decline since the French match at Croke Park - what about the hammering of England and Italy soon after?
No, there's a lot more to it - over training, staleness, not ot mention off the field problems which have obviously affected O'Gara in particular - and, dare I mention it, the completely ineffective coach!! What we need is a non-Irish coach who will be impartial, and not subject to pathetic little episodes of favouritism and blind stupidy eg exclusion of Murphy and Neil Best, and inclusion of Easterby and Dempsey.
Eddie, you've blown it for your countrymen, for Ireland, go now!!
NB Well done BOD for at last singing Ireland's Call, I was so impressed by that! COME ON IRELAND, we can hammer the Pumas and have a go at the All Blacks!
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This is a reply to rob, comments #60 and 62:
"In the case of France they were surprised by the passion of Argentina"
Please get your facts together, Argentina beat France in 4 of the last 5 matches, and France won by one point in the only match they came on top.
Get real, I recommend you reading MarkMar22, comment #72. I could not have said it better.
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This is a reply to rob, comment #60:
"In the case of France they were surprised by the passion of Argentina"
Please get your facts together, Argentina beat France in 4 of the last 5 matches, and France won by one point in the only match they came on top. The only ones surprised are probably you, Laporte and the French media.
Get real, I recommend you reading MarkMar22, comments #15 and 72.
I could not have said it better.
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"Ireland have become a bad side in a handful of months"... that's what the article's subheading states on the main Irish Rugby page. What a joke! Ireland have been adept at hiding their deficiencies for at least a couple of years now. Yes, we've won more in 6N, but just because the competition regresses (England) doesn't mean we became better! We've *always* come up short when it comes to the crunch. France, every single time. The truth is that a huge amount of this team's reputation is media fluff. The darlings of Dublin 4 and the Munster heartland. Yeah, Croker was a big deal, but come on! "Bod" and "Poc" and "Doc". Not their fault, but they can't do much about the pedestal built under them. The papers lap up the stuff about Spala and the fact that we're training these "super" men to go and beat the best in a macho, hard, man's game. And we have a coach who could be a businessman or lawyer, with his management-speak, much better for modern Ireland than a Jack Charlton type! Blind eyes have been turned for ages now when we just don't turn up against Scotland or Wales or Italy, scraping through after 80 dire minutes. *Far* too much celebration and hype when we beat B-teams from the southern hemisphere at the back end of their long season. The writings been on the wall for a while now, guys!
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"Ireland have become a bad side in a handful of months"... that's what the article's subheading states on the main Irish Rugby page. What a joke! Ireland have been adept at hiding their deficiencies for at least a couple of years now. Yes, we've won more in 6N, but just because the competition regresses (England) doesn't mean we became better! We've *always* come up short when it comes to the crunch. France, every single time. The truth is that a huge amount of this team's reputation is media fluff. The darlings of Dublin 4 and the Munster "heartland". Yeah, Croker was a big deal, but come on! "Bod" and "Poc" and "Doc", idolised as much in the Sunday Indo society page as the Sport section. Not their fault, but they can't do much about the pedestal built under them. The papers lap up the stuff about Spala and the fact that we're training these "super" men to go and beat the best in a macho, hard, man's game. And we have a coach who could be a businessman or lawyer, with his management-speak, much better for modern Ireland than a Jack Charlton type! Blind eyes have been turned for ages now when we just don't turn up against Scotland or Wales or Italy, scraping through after 80 dire minutes. *Far* too much celebration and hype when we beat B-teams from the southern hemisphere at the back end of their long season. The writings been on the wall for a while now, guys!
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(LENGTHY COMMENT - PART 1)
Hi lads, I read almost all comments and must say am really sorry. I am an argentinean but have some Irish members on the family and wished you the best from day one. I really wanted both teams to beat France and leave them out of their WC. Let me say one thing about the way we see rugby, and this may not explain why Ireland has not performed as expected, but it may show you guys the way back to your own origins as well.
Argentinean rugby was not and is not, of first class, and we will have to go a logn way before we can say that (we have no scrum half replacement, I am weary of the day Pichot retires). We are still mainly amateur... because although almost all of our guys in this world cup play professionally, they represent less than 5% of our pool of players. As a matter of fact, all of them played rugby at an amateur level in Argentinean clubs, and only in the last years went to Europe. This means that all of those guys spent 8 hs at school every day and trained tuesd and thrus from 8:00 PM to 10:00 PM, and played on Sat or Sund. I played rugby for 10 years but decided "it was too much sacrifice"... this guys continued playing because they have an incredible PASSION about the sport.
That is combined with HUMILITY because we have got our arse kicked so many times that we've learned it the hard way. We can only win big matches if we put a huge effort. This means that we normally wont show up and expect to win by the color of our jerseys (like Ireland seemed to do agains Namibia, ramming them without clear ideas)... we plan the game and try to follow that plan to the best of our capacity. Sometimes that is enough... some times it isn't (we have never won agains NZ).
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Totally agree with #79, except with the "over trained" excuse, doesn't seem to effect the All Blacks. EOS should do the decent thing and go, bring back Warren Gatland, he never should have been sacked. I'm sorry but beating England isn't enough, the Irish team is capable of so much more and If Eddie gets another 4 years our best players will be long retired before another coach has a chance.
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Totally agree with #79, except with the "over trained" excuse, doesn't seem to effect the All Blacks. EOS should do the decent thing and go, bring back Warren Gatland, he never should have been sacked. I'm sorry but beating England isn't enough, the Irish team is capable of so much more and If Eddie gets another 4 years our best players will be long retired before another coach has a chance.
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Ireland are playing absolutly crap. Its a discrace that they have actually got thais far! Irelands world cup ended on Friday night as they have to beat argentina and if they do that then they play new zealand !!!!!! WORLD CUP OVER!!!!
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Although everyone is being justifiably negative about many aspects of Ireland's performance, but for conceding five soft penalties the scoreline would have been much closer. I hope the team learns from this and against Argentina actually listens to the referee when he warns them to get back onside.
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Its time for us Irish to face a few harsh realities.
The triple crown, our one and only legitimate claim to fame should have been disbanded when the French joined the 6N. Therefore if we take that rationale, we have won nothing.
We have beaten farcical Southern hemisphere teams on blustery days at HQ, with springbok and wallaby alike thrusted into alien positions (see Bryan Habana almost convince us he's a centre.)
My problem with being Irish is that we're the least offensive team in the world. Do you want to know why we're the darling supporters of many a sporting event? Because we never beat anyone.
Sure we'll give it a lash and our opponents will sympathise with us over a beer and admire our spirit.
Sure, We can site brief heroics in New York, or even in the caribean this year, but the only hearts we've ever really broken in World arena are the Romanian ones in Genoa.
We have no divine rite to progress any further in this or any competition, our good individual players have squandered their chance at true rugby greatness and this years 6N will be about as interesting as EOS's bland responses to the pertinent questions.
Any achievements in the Magners league, Heineken cup or 6N will forever be forgettable when we consider our debacle at the only tournament that matters, and for the whole world to see (sigh).
words of encouragemant ould be appreciated.
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(LENGTHY COMMENT - PART 1)
Hi lads, I read almost all comments and must say am really sorry. I am an argentinean but have some Irish members on the family and wished you the best from day one. I really wanted both teams to beat France and leave them out of their WC. Let me say one thing about the way we see rugby, and although this may not explain why Ireland has not performed as you expected, it may show you guys the way back to the basis.
Argentinean rugby was not and is not, of first class, and we will have to go a long way before we can say that (eg: we have no scrum half replacement, I am weary of the day Pichot retires, which will be soon). We are still mainly amateur... because although almost all of our guys in this world cup play professionally, they represent less than 5% of our pool of rugby players who are still amateur at large. As a matter of fact, all of our pros played rugby at an amateur level in Argentinean clubs, and only in the last years went to Europe (not long ago the Argentine Rugby Union BANNED pro players from wearing the Pumas jersey). This means that all of those guys spent 8 hs at school/work every day, then trained tuesd and thrus from 8:00 PM to 10:00 PM and played on Sat or Sund. They made that commitment spending their own money to pay the club fees, the shorts, shirts and bandages. I played rugby for 10 years but decided "it was too much sacrifice"... this guys continued playing because they have an incredible PASSION about the sport. Can you imagine what it feels for them to represent their country?
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Bring back Warren Gatland or promote Declan Kidney to the job. Let鈥檚 face facts; EOS rise to fame has been on the back of Munster鈥檚 European Cup win and nothing more. A few triple crowns is not much when you have the best ever squad available. With regard to last Fridays match, did EOS react when the French brought on 6 subs between the 55th min and the 65th min. Yes, he brought on speedy Mal O Kelly during the 70th minute. Talking about delayed reaction, I reckon that the French Couch knew that EOS was always allergic to bring on substitutes which in turn are the main reason why we do not have a good second team to promote healthy competition in the squad.
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come on! as if humphreys would have necessarily made a difference. im still supporting ronan and sorry if that pisses some people here off but i dont care. he has had a bad wc, it's true, no denying that but to suddenly say he's crap is ridiculous and is considered fair weather. it is true that ppl in this country have got behind the team when they're winning but when they lose, the backlash begins.typical and i think i have the right to say that as look exactly what people have written on this blog. critisism is fine and of course ireland deserve to be critiscised but in a constructive and not in a "ill never support them again" kind of way. as for rog people were singing his praises before the wc and now the slagging begins- it is fickle and people should admit that
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(LENGTHY COMMENT 鈥 PART 2)
That is combined with HUMILITY because we have got our arse kicked sooo many times that we've learned it the hard way. We can only win big matches if we put a huge effort. This means that we normally wont show up and expect to win by the color of our jerseys (like Ireland seemed to do against Namibia, ramming them without clear ideas)... we plan the game and try to follow that plan to the best of our capacity. Sometimes that is enough... some times it isn't (we have never won against NZ).
Last, the EXPERIENCE gained in the last years by this group of professional players has been the key ingredient to become competitive. For the first time we see the blue, white or green jerseys and think "we can win this game", because we play, eat and drink with French, English and Irish pros.
Add those three elements: PASSION, HUMILITY, EXPERIENCE and you don't have a world champion (we lack the POWER of the other SH teams) but you have a tough team to beat. I believe the Irish have those three elements as well... they just didn't seem to bring the H one to this world cup (the press may be at fault?). I just hope they don't bring it to the final match or they could very well turn things around!!!
Lads, a final word. Despite our positive record, only in our wildest dreams we (argies) thought we would win against France in the opening match. If we both had been beaten by France you may have not been thinking about ripping apart the Irish team, but focused on how to finish one point ahead of us in that final match, which is very possible indeed. Don't be too harsh with your guys, this was the pool of death after all and unlikely events have happened. Good luck on Sundays match and may the best team win!
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@ post 92
Having kept up to date with the blogs here, and been an interested reader of all the Irish comments, there haven't been many at all who are saying they'll never support Ireland again.
And yes, the "slagging" might have begin, but most people feel it's deserved. I think the vast majority of people are disappointed with the WAY in which Ireland have played. If they'd played gutsy, attacking rugby and been outplayed and beaten, I doubt there'd be many who would argue.
When your no 10 misses his touch, or punts his kicks straight down field into the 22 and down the throat of the defending fullback, time after time after time, it's not very surprising people are getting on his case.
I'd love to see all the guys who have warmed the bench (or not even got that far) get a run out. Probably too little too late, but let them at it anyway!
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In responce to #93 "Don't be too harsh with your guys, this was the pool of death after all" I'm sorry but the 14-10 against Georgia is not exceptable, it ws our best 15 and the Namibia game wasn't much better? we were awful in the warm up games? Even if we beat the Argies, this world cup campain has been disaster. I blaim the EOS and his selection policies. Time to draw a line under the EOS era and move on.
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gentlemen
gloating is a sign of insecurity so i will desist.
however, some of us did prophesy the current irish malaise a good few months ago and commentated accordingly. many (world cup winning) england players were angered at the attitude of certain celts during the 2005 lions tour. similarly, certain members of the international rugby circle have been irked by the proclamations of irish rugby "greatness" that have wafted around for the past year or so. ireland should remember their rugby history: no grand slam since 1948. never progressed beyond the qf's of the world cup. never beaten the all blacks. ever. perhaps ireland should achieve something before they start telling us all how great they are. and, by the by, eddie o'sullivan needs some help.
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come on! as if humphreys would have necessarily made a difference. im still supporting ronan and sorry if that pisses some people here off but i dont care. he has had a bad wc, it's true, no denying that but to suddenly say he's crap is ridiculous and is considered fair weather. it is true that ppl in this country have got behind the team when they're winning but when they lose, the backlash begins.typical and i think i have the right to say that as look exactly what people have written on this blog. critisism is fine and of course ireland deserve to be critiscised but in a constructive and not in a "ill never support them again" kind of way. as for rog people were singing his praises before the wc and now the slagging begins- it is fickle and people should admit that
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we win a couple of triple crowns and all of a sudden we are world beaters sounds more like the english media than irish fans come on boys and girls 80 minutes left to go in the group lets be irish again and cheer in hope rather than expectation we always make more noise that way and the boys just might pull through for all of us.
4 proud provinces not 4 hyper critical ones!!
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Hmmm wonder where "Hamish" (comment number 26) is from!! Good to see that a discussion about the Irish current form can get back onto a bit on England bashing....take your blinkers off and remove the chip Hamish.
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we need a totally fresh approach for the last game and put some pride and effort back in the green jersey!
No one has mentioned that 7 of the 8 forwards came from Munster - the only forward who really put himself on the line and stood up to the French was Easterby...an exile.Munster are past their glory days and this needs to be recognised come next year's six nations.It's terrible that quality players such as heaslip and gleeson have not been included andover the kast few years we have not developed alternatives to horan, hayes, mick o'driscoll and that reddan has not been given game time ahead of stringer. Also humphreys should have been kept within the loop.Jennings could not get a look-in even though he was outstanding for Leicester last year,.
For friday would like to see the following team given a shot:
dempsey; carney,o'driscoll, darcy,murphy;wallace,reddan;young,r.best(if fit!otherwise flannery),s.best;o'connell,o'kelly;easterby,ferris,n.best.Bench:hickie,o'gara,boss,flannery(or sheahan),hayes,quinlan,leamy.
After world cup exit the following should not be picked or feature in future ireland squads as we need to plan for world cup 2011:hayes,o'kelly,easterby,d.wallace,mick o'driscoll,quinlan,sheehan.
new blood needs to be developed such as s.best, bracken,healy, hogan,jennings,heaslip,ferris,sexton,fitzgerald, kearney.
O'sullivan must go and we should recruit a new fresh thinking world class coach such as connolly or eddie jones to get the best out of our talented backs and younger pack.
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AG #42 I think you've done yourself a disservice by writing that here for you have only highlighted why we like to see you lose. Away over to some English rugby thread and i doubt you'll find any Irish supporters saying; your backs can't make anything happen; you are and have been the most dour team in world rugby for 3 1/2 years; and might i add, haven't beaten Ireland since 2003. What you lack is a bit of humility, at least we come on here agreeing we're done and dusted instead of the constant 'Maaaate we're world champions...maaaate' stuff you get in England, where i have lived for 3 years. In fact the last time i heard that particular comment was when Andy Goode scored a penalty against Ireland at Twick., just before Horgan scored in the corner to, eh, you know, beat you.
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Here are the facts:
EOS picked the wrong players in his squad.
EOS shows too much loyalty
EOS rarely gives players playing abroad a chance - Bob Casey et al
The team are over confident in their ability and now cannot figure out why they are losing.
ROG is not playing well (forget the rumours). If he cant find touch then we are forced to play most of the game in our own 22! Fact!
Bottom line get rid of EOS and bring in Declan Kidney (He has won real trophies! The triple crown is the trophy for second place!
Let him build a team for the future.
I watched Leinster against Edinburgh at the weekend and Luke Fitzgerald and Jonathan Sexton are real stars in the making.
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It's ridiculous to chat about O'Driscoll and D'arcy underperforming. They are not getting any go forward ball and ball is just beinging shipped out to them to make yards when this should be done a lot closer to the breakdown. Also, because there's so little threat inside them (exception of reddan) defences can drift right across to the midfield and further conjest things
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Is it time to face up to the fact that the emperor has no clothes on. I am pleased to see there is more than just myself can now see that Ronan o'Gara is not, and never has been up to international rugby. We have finally realised that Peter Stringer is past his best, but to his credit he has contributed in the teams better performances in recent years. But O'Gara is a just a passenger and always has been. For goodness sake he is playing at outside half, probably the most important position. If OSullivan cannoy see his limitations, then he must go also. We would not be in this mess if David Humphries was fit and recognised for the class act he still is.
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I read with interest no 90 from our Argentinian blogger - well said my friend!
I've been saying for a while that passion is so important - I mean singing your anthem (whatever you may think of it) with passion and pride, with tears in your eyes; I mean playing for your country even if you have to pay for the privilege rather than be paid huge sums of money.
Our lads lack that, as does our coach. Fair play to BOD - against France for the first time he set an example by singing 'Ireland's Call' as if he meant it - I was so impressed with that, and even thought, fleetingly, that we might be in for a great night!
Too many of our players have lost their national pride. Some know that they have to be seriously injured before they'll be omitted by EOS, who puts his own petty preferences and favouritisms before his team and country, and we fans - his reasoning for omitting Murphy from the squad v France, not just the team, were pathetic. How could he omit Neil Best? And I won't mention the next 4 years!
I've looked forward so much to this tournament - for once I really thought Ireland could show the world. And we've blown it. Ultimately EOS must take the blame - and he must go. A foreign coach eg Gatland would not have the petty and small-minded hang-ups of EOS; or perhaps Kidney could do the job.
In the meantime, though, perhaps we should all be a bit more positive until Sunday. We're not out of this yet! If we can at last produce the same sort of performance as v England and Italy in the 6 Nations, we could beat the Pumas and score 4 tries, then at least we'll have made the QF's. Ok, we wouldn't then beat the AB's, but another decent showing in that match and we would at least go out in style, having gone someway to redeeming our reputation in the eyes of the world.
So EOS, be a bit adventurous and pick the right attacking team for the Pumas - show how big a man you are by climbing down and putting Murphy at full back, Neil Best at no 6, and take a gamble on Ferris at no 8.
And let's all get behind the lads one last time! If sunday is another flop, then the knives really will be out - but just keep them hidden for a few more days. COME ON IRELAND, SHOW US WHAT YOU REALLY CAN DO ON SUNDAY!
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Before O鈥橠riscoll, before O鈥機onnell, there鈥檚 one man who we needed to lead by example on Friday night 鈥 Ronan O鈥橤ara.
People will hark on about how his personal problems affected his display last Friday against the French, but if you鈥檙e going to flog that old horse then explain his two woeful WC performances prior to the L鈥橢quippe debacle last week.
The fact is O鈥橤ara actually started the Namibian game quite well so any question over his psychological state entering the tournament must be seen as obsolete. However, immediately obvious from that game was his inability to get his kicking game on track.
This trend of wayward kicking prevailed in the Georgian match and through to last Friday night where the game was calling out for a commanding influence at 10.
The French, nervy in defence, were there for the taking and O鈥橤ara blew it. When we needed him most, at his tactically astute best, he was found wanting.
Around the summer of 2006, O鈥橤ara would have strolled into most teams in the world. Right now, and this really kills me, I鈥檇 take Chris Paterson at the drop of a hat.
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Alaister, I read your comments. Slightly reactionary and following popular thinking. Some things are correct like O'Gara didn't boss the game like he can do.But, for me, the cause of our problems was Chris White who whistled us off the field.A whistle happy referee can destroy the momentum of any side and he did that. More to the point he was inconsistent. He was biased against Ireland and supportive of the French case. When I heard that he was the referee I knew that we could not win. Argentina would not have beaten France either if he was in charge that day. I was hoping for Caplin but he was the fourth official. If you dont believe me just look at the video. Terence Liston
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why dont we just go out and give it a good oul lash who cares who wins ,sure it worked for years
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now that the doomers and gloomers have had their venting, how about suggestions to fix the problem. Clearly Ireland have played badly and there maybe explanations but it does not matter. They are still in the RWC and can fix the problem by winning on Sunday.
Ireland specializes as being an underdog but add to that, Ireland has a great team that is underperforming, it makes for a great game on Sunday. I am an optimist my nature but on this one, I think there is cause to be.
The fat lady will sing on Sunday but it may not be an Irish lament but Crying for Argentina.
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I am a little unsure what would be the best result for Ireland against Argentina. Don't get me wrong, I am an avid Irish supporter and would love to see them really running round the Argies (let's be honest, the idea of trying to take them on and 'bully them up front for the first 20 minutes' as one comment says above is unrealistic). On the other hand though, it is clear this team/management needs a bit of a strong rethink.....
1. I am sick of EOS refusing to bring on 'impact' subs until the last four minutes of the game. If a team is not matching the opposition after the half time talk and another ten mintues play, it is not going to materialise.
2. With no real competition for places, there appears to be a great deal of complacency. The units look stale and far too predictable for any other team in the world cup - look at how two supposed minnows knew exactly how to slow down the Ireland game and maintain possession against us as well. I think the complacency is nowhere more evident than in ROG. The man is a shocker and verging on a disgrace. He thought he was contending fot the second best out-half in the game. What a joke! But there really isn't any viable replacement. P Wallace is not a bad player but I think perhaps it is too late for him to ever develop into a world class out-half (this pains me greatly as I am indeed an Ulster supporter). Anyone heard of a chap called Ian Humphreys - apparently not bad at all and I hope to God he can develop into half the player his brother was and maybe put pressure on ROG/EOS to change and/or improve things.
3. My main point though is that if Ireland do somehow manage to scrape through or indeed win but not proceed the criticism of the the team and management will be a little muted. Whereas if they go out of the pool stage then there will be a much greater call for tactics/players/management to change and improve. There is no doubt this team has played well below par - we don't really seem to know why that is but i have a good feeling it be a little more apparent once a few familiar faces were left out in the cold.
On a separate note I thought Reddan gave a decent performance considering the circumstances. I would have him and Boss as my choices against Argentina and leave Stringer out of it altogether again. Again though, if whoever starts isn;t doing a stirling job by 50 minutes, change them then - not at 75!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally, I am more than a little worried about the future of the Northern Hemisphere teams as a whole. Has anyone else noticed the almighty gap in talent,style,team work, work rate etc etc between us and the Tri Nations teams. Surely it can't be that as soon as England go a bit rubbish we all take a turn for the worse ?!?!?!?!
Referring back to my own tagline/name, as a young bald man once sang 'I believe in miracles' and will be praying that our Ireland boys will show what they can do - my faith is still present (if more than a little weakened).
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I don't think any of the players deserve individual criticism.
Everyone needs to lay off ROG. Every player has some bad days and the fact taht those around him are not 100% makes it look worse. I remember he was not that great in the Heinekan Cup final and missed touch at crucial stages. HOwever those around him particularly stringer were huge. Look at Carter on Sunday his kicking was pretty poor. Even Elissade missed 3 spot kicks.
Wallace is not yet a suitable replacement but I agree he should have got some decent game time against Namibia to give ROG some impetus. ROG was good against Italy and his cross field gor Horgan was sublime. There were stages that he played well against France and stages when he might as well have been blindfolded.
We will win on Saturday - and I think we have a chance of going through.
24-14 does not sound too daunting does it! All this talk about a defensive Arg but Ireland have nothing to lose! When was the last time anyone tried to chuck the ball around against Arg?
Come on get behind the team!
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Terrence at 107.
Nice try my friend, but that is simply nonsense.
1. Argentina utterly deserved their win and in my view were conderably better than the scoreline.
2. White may have been something of a pedant on Friday night but to blame the result on him is nothing short of arrogant Nelsonian "i see no ships" tripe.
We lost because we were and currently are totally rubbish is all aspects of the game. From pre-world cup build-up strategy, summer tour and AI's, through to the final warm-ups, through to overall squad selection and match squad selection, to tactics on the field, and management off it - ALL of this has been totally sub-standard or lacking. Seemingly, and not unsurprisingly, this has now all manifested itself in our boys losing their self-confidence, optimism, belief, passion, commitment, pride etc above all they seem to have lost the basic rugby skills too, like handling, passing, positioning, timing, discipline etc.
So after all that, yeah - lets blame the ref, it was all his fault!
Bring on Sunday and come on Felipe and your boys - do us in good and proper please!!!
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All in all very disappointing from Ireland... so far. Who knows what can happen on Sunday, but one thing is for sure Argentina aren't invincible. Yes they are very strong defensibly and at the moment a well-oiled machine. However, they've had no pressure on them as-of-yet. They have been fortunate enough to know exactly what they need to do in terms of point scoring, which is a major advantage. I don鈥檛 mean to undermine the Puma鈥檚 performances; they have performed brilliantly and definitely deserver their current position in the group. However, the point I am striving toward is that if Ireland can score 2 early tries on Sunday, then all of a sudden the Argentineans鈥 who are expected to win will be put under pressure and anything can happen. Just look at South Africa and Tonga game, once the Tongans got a couple of tries, SA were all over the place and urging the final whistle.
The performances to date have been woeful but I honestly think it鈥檚 the build up of pressure and a severe lack of confidence. Ireland really needed good, comfortable wins against Georgia and Namibia to be up for the France game and they just didn鈥檛 come and Ireland have just tried to force the results ever since.
To respond to the above blogs above about Ireland being lucky and there acclaim undeserved鈥 what a load of verbal crap. I鈥檇 say a team losing the six nations twice on points difference in the last 3 years it distinctively unlucky!
Also, (my last point, I promise) the SH teams are stronger than the NH teams simply because of their physical prowess. I鈥檓 not saying its right or wrong but all the SH teams pick the best talent from Tonga, Fiji or Samoa which gives them a huge advantage. The islanders鈥 are huge men and designed for rugby, 9 times out of 10 they鈥檒l break the game line and put their team in a great attacking position; ultimately giving the backs as much ball as they need.
To conclude, i鈥檓 very proud to be Irish and it is frustrating to be watching a quality team play so poorly, but we all know what this side have done and still can do. Let鈥檚 not rule them out yet, I paid good money for my Ireland Jersey and I鈥檒l be certainly flying the flag for the lads on Sunday!
Up the Irish!
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Terrence at 107.
Nice try my friend, but that is simply nonsense.
1. Argentina utterly deserved their win and in my view were conderably better than the scoreline.
2. White may have been something of a pedant on Friday night but to blame the result on him is nothing short of arrogant Nelsonian "i see no ships" tripe.
We lost because we were and currently are totally rubbish is all aspects of the game. From pre-world cup build-up strategy, summer tour and AI's, through to the final warm-ups, through to overall squad selection and match squad selection, to tactics on the field, and management off it - ALL of this has been totally sub-standard or lacking. Seemingly, and not unsurprisingly, this has now all manifested itself in our boys losing their self-confidence, optimism, belief, passion, commitment, pride etc above all they seem to have lost the basic rugby skills too, like handling, passing, positioning, timing, discipline etc.
So after all that, yeah - lets blame the ref, it was all his fault!
Bring on Sunday and come on Felipe and your boys - do us in good and proper please!!!
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In response to unsure allegiances, I too have been thinking the same thing. As much as I'm a passionate Ireland rugby supporter a loss would force the IRFU's hand. I'm also sick of EOS refusing to bring on 'impact' subs until the last four minutes of the game. Its time for a change of direction, EOS has given us some good times, but also some bad. I think after 6 years of winning nothing (Triple crown doesn't count) its time for some fresh ideas.
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In response to unsure allegiances, I too have been thinking the same thing. As much as I'm a passionate Ireland rugby supporter a loss would force the IRFU's hand. I'm also sick of EOS refusing to bring on 'impact' subs until the last four minutes of the game. Its time for a change of direction, EOS has given us some good times, but also some bad. I think after 6 years of winning nothing (Triple crown doesn't count) its time for some fresh ideas.
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Alaister, I read your comments. Slightly reactionary and following popular thinking. Some things are correct like O'Gara didn't boss the game like he can do.But, for me, the cause of our problems was Chris White who whistled us off the field.A whistle happy referee can destroy the momentum of any side and he did that. More to the point he was inconsistent. He was biased against Ireland and supportive of the French case. When I heard that he was the referee I knew that we could not win. Argentina would not have beaten France either if he was in charge that day. I was hoping for Caplin but he was the fourth official. If you dont believe me just look at the video. Terence Liston
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Declan Boland,
Did you actually copy and paste your quote directly from a pre-French-match thread?
鈥淭hey are still in the RWC and can fix the problem by winning鈥
鈥淚reland specializes as being an underdog鈥
Are these hackneyed old lines driving anyone else mad? The nation is in an absolute state of denial. Can nobody see the real reason behind our demise?
Well here it is鈥
Forget the supposed infighting and gambling debts, you need to go back much further to find the underlying cause here. Back to 1995, when Phil Coulter was given the responsibility of writing our new official Anthem for International rugby matches.
With lyrics that have about as much emotional weight as those of a Girl鈥檚 Aloud single, and a melody that seems to pay homage to sea shanties of old, Ireland's Call truly is a diabolical piece of music.
The All Blacks have the Haka, the French have La Marseillaise, and what do we get? Possibly the least motivating load of drivel ever produced.
Phil Coulter, stand up and take the blame
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As an occassional observer of RU, can anyone tell me why Carney han't played yet? Is he injured?
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Terrence at 107.
Nice try my friend, but that is simply nonsense.
1. Argentina utterly deserved their win and in my view were conderably better than the scoreline.
2. White may have been something of a pedant on Friday night but to blame the result on him is nothing short of arrogant Nelsonian "i see no ships" tripe.
We lost because we were and currently are totally rubbish is all aspects of the game. From pre-world cup build-up strategy, summer tour and AI's, through to the final warm-ups, through to overall squad selection and match squad selection, to tactics on the field, and management off it - ALL of this has been totally sub-standard or lacking. Seemingly, and not unsurprisingly, this has now all manifested itself in our boys losing their self-confidence, optimism, belief, passion, commitment, pride etc above all they seem to have lost the basic rugby skills too, like handling, passing, positioning, timing, discipline etc.
So after all that, yeah - lets blame the ref, it was all his fault!
Bring on Sunday and come on Felipe and your boys - do us in good and proper please!!!
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Wow, there's a lot of anger in these postings (understandably...).
All I saw Friday night was an Irish team that had gone off the boil, not an over-the-hill bunch of old men as some are indicating.
EOS seems to firmly believe that the way to score tries is to simply speed the game up by trying to play adventurous rugby. He appears to have wrongly fuelled the self-belief of individual players, rather than the team as a whole.
The Irish players need to play for each other, recycling the ball for far more consecutive phases (whether quickly or slowly is not important so long as it's the irish team that dictates this pace).
The "untouchables" need to rely more on a team structure, need to show the vision to slow a game down (something England did brilliantly in the last world cup), not simply speed it up for the sake of their own glory. Slowing the game down (if only a little sometimes) allows for all 15 to catch their breaths, to re-organise.
We only need a handful of real chances to score, but somewhere along the way these players have been convinced to try every half chance that comes there way...
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A couple of points first -
1 - Any Irish supporter who wants Argentina to win on Sunday is a disgrace and shouldn't be allowed call themselves an Irish supporter.
2 - Anyone who thinks that cause you don't sing the abomination that is Irelands call that you don't care is deluded. The players have more interest in winning than the supporters do...
With regards to the lead-in to the RWC its amazing that now people are complaining the first choice players didn't go to Argentina and also complaining he didn't give more players experience....
With regards to the squad choices the only problems I would really have had was with Ferris being picked over Heaslip...Gleeson unfortunately is past it and Jennings was injured which reduced our options at No7...
With regards to EOS not bringing in new players the likes of Horan, Best, Flannery, Best, Young, DOC, POC, Hogan, Leamy, Best, Heaslip, Ferris, Wallace, Wallace, Reddan, Boss, Trimble, Carney, Bowe, Kearney, Fitzgerald etc have all come in under EOS.
With regards to changes how is it EOS's fault that -
1 - Our provincial teams aren't producing good props?? Young, Best, McCormack etc are hardly proving international class.
2 - How are the provinces producing O/H's that EOS could use?? Did Ulster play Wallace at O/H all season - NO...
It is bad luck that Wallace/BOD/Horgan suffered injuries that limited their gametime up to the RWC...
While admitting that EOS has made mistakes it is hardly his fault players can't catch a ball or throw a pass or change lineout calls during a match...
EOS's mistakes include -
1 - Not using the bench quicker
2 - Not starting MOK instead of DOC to get a working lineout
3 - Picking Trimble in any game.
4 - Not giving Carney a place on teh bench
5 - Dropping Murphy
6 - Not having Heaslip available to replace Leamy.
Team to play Argentina -
Best (Replace Horan 30 mins)
Flannery (Replace Sheahan 60-65)
Hayes (Replace Best 60 mins)
MOK (Replace DOC 55 MINS)
POC
Best (replace Wallace 50 mins)
Easterby
Quinlan (replace Leamy 50 mins)
Reddan
Rog/Wallace (still not sure yet)
Carney
Darcy
BOD
Horgan
Murphy
Boss
ROG/Wallace/Hickie - not sure
Horan
Sheahan
DOC
Wallace
Leamy
If ROG is on form in training - kicking well then I would pick him with Wallace on the bench...
If he is not on form I would put Wallce starting with Hickie on the bench and with Murphy as reserve O/H..
Quinlan/Best to provide agression in teh tackle
MOK/Quinlan/Easterby to provide lineout presence..
Horan/DOC/Wallace/Leamy to provide impact off the bench
Carney to provide counter attack and a seriously powerful tackle breaking runner..
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#118 are you having a laugh??? blaiming the anthem, absolutely ridiculous. I've said it before, Ireland have been poor for a while, look at the warm up games before the RWC. The blaim lies fairly and squarely with EOS. Picking more or less the smae 15 over and over again when they're playing so badly is a HUGE mistake. Also, as many have pointed out, there is no point using impact subs with 5 minutes to go and as for no Murhpy in the match day squad, why???? EOS, just go!
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All in all very disappointing from Ireland... so far. Who knows what can happen on Sunday, but one thing is for sure Argentina aren't invincible. Yes they are very strong defensibly and at the moment a well-oiled machine. However, they've had no pressure on them as-of-yet. They have been fortunate enough to know exactly what they need to do in terms of point scoring, which is a major advantage. I don鈥檛 mean to undermine the Puma鈥檚 performances; they have performed brilliantly and definitely deserver their current position in the group. However, the point I am striving toward is that if Ireland can score 2 early tries on Sunday, then all of a sudden the Argentineans鈥 who are expected to win will be put under pressure and anything can happen. Just look at South Africa and Tonga game, once the Tongans got a couple of tries, SA were all over the place and urging the final whistle.
The performances to date have been woeful but I honestly think it鈥檚 the build up of pressure and a severe lack of confidence. Ireland really needed good, comfortable wins against Georgia and Namibia to be up for the France game and they just didn鈥檛 come and Ireland have just tried to force the results ever since.
To respond to the above blogs above about Ireland being lucky and there acclaim undeserved鈥 what a load of verbal crap. I鈥檇 say a team losing the six nations twice on points difference in the last 3 years it distinctively unlucky!
Also, (my last point, I promise) the SH teams are stronger than the NH simply because of their physical prowess. I鈥檓 not saying its right or wrong but all the SH teams pick the best talent from Tonga, Fiji or Samoa which gives them a huge advantage. The islanders鈥 are huge men and designed for rugby, 9 times out of 10 they鈥檒l break the game line and put their team in a great attacking position; ultimately giving the backs as much ball as they need.
I鈥檓 very proud to be Irish and it is frustrating to be watching a quality team play so poorly, but we all know what this side have done and still can do. Let鈥檚 not rule them out yet, I paid good money for my Ireland Jersey and I鈥檒l be certainly flying the flag for the lads on Sunday!
Up the Irish!
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Sometimes you have to take a step backwards to go forward. I think that is why some Irish supporters don't see a loss to Argentina as disasterous, as it would speed up the removal EOS. I want Ireland to win, but i don't want EOS in charge for the next 6 nations, we will NEVER win it with Eddie as coach.
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@ Ryan J, 101
I know all that, we're terrible.
You wouldn't get me to disagree.
I'm telling you why I used to genuinely support Ireland and now genuinely enjoy seeing them lose.
Because of the knee jerk anti-English attitude of many Irish.
I understand that we in Britain are not taught our shameful colonial history, and we should be. Few people know who the Black and Tans were, and all this resentment remains, but the instinctive suspicion of the English, the eagerness to mock, is not mutually felt. Certainly wasn't by me until I weathered a year's worth of crap in Irish bars. And when that crap gets returned it provokes anger, and claims of racism or arrogance.
Well, sorry, I'll give you some arrogance:
You will not make the quarter finals.
You have only yourselves to blame.
We have played almost as poorly as you and we *will* make them. Tee hee.
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sad comments!
The truth is on the pitch.
Rugby is a sport where the best potential is not always the one that wins. Stamina and spirit is key.
Argentina is a very good side and I fully respect them.
We should all enjoy having a new very good side in the rugby world.
They play a strong mighty but also very technical rugby. Hernandez is such a great player.
I think it would be great if they could reach the semi or more.
But I am sure Ireland has the potential to win that game. Argentina will probably be less concentrated and are not used to be in first position. They'll have some pressure too.
Even if I appreciate these guys specially living in Paris where half the team plays, Argentinian are frequently loosing humility.
At a certain level Rugby is not predictible. The way the ball turns can change in a very good or in a very bad way the whole game and that is why we love it.
Should I remind you that the AB where always hot favorites but has won it only once.
When I read all these pestimistic comments I think we don't like the same sport.
I hope you'll be all welcome to France.
I hope to see beautiful games and deserved victories.
Be the best team win it!
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I think we have all failed to notice the fact that all of Ireland's encouraging results over the last few years (barring two away victories against England - by the skin of our teeth in both) have all taken place in Dublin. When playing away from home, we have struggled on numerous occasions - defeating Scotland by a point in the recent 6 Nations game springs to mind. Yes, we have beaten two of rugby's Superpowers at home (Australia and South Africa), but beating them away? Not a chance.
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Ah, don't need to be sad people. I'm sure that if the team puts in the effort they'll be able to stop the argies scoring 4 tries & keep them within 7 points. And sure We have Eddie for 4 more years. Everything is grand and mediocre - just the was the blazers in the IRFU likes it!
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Ah, don't need to be sad people. I'm sure that if the team puts in the effort they'll be able to stop the argies scoring 4 tries & keep them within 7 points. And sure We have Eddie for 4 more years. Everything is grand and mediocre - just the was the blazers in the IRFU likes it!
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Dunno if anyone else has noticed but, the media are saying that Ireland will go through with4 tries (bonus point) and beat Arg by more than 7. I'm afraid it doesn't quite work like that. The table says on Points Diff, Ireland lie on -3, whilst the argies lie on +95. Now on points we have 9 and they have 14. Even with a bonus point that brings us to 14, where points difference comes into play. We have to win by a stupid amount of points. So many that i don't even think Ireland as ever beaten anyone by that much let alone Argentina.
We haven't got a prayer.
I'll support them all the way. But on current form, it'll be more like Argentina with the bonus point.
Sorry!
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i wonder how cocky ireland will be at twickenham next march, having failed to get out of their world cup pool against certain quarter, and possibly semi, finalists?
we'll lose to the ab's in the semis but at least we can tell you what playing in wc semis (would be the fourth one for us) feels like.
you can tell us what it feels like to need a geriatric buffoon of a tmo to (mistakenly) gift u an injury time victory over italy at ravenhill.
i hope o'gara didn't get too carried away backing ireland!
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er post 131 if you read the rules of the tournament you wouldn't write such drivel. if points are equal between two teams after the pool stages then the result between the two teams is the primary consideration i.e. if (?!!) ireland acquire 5 points and deny arge any points then ireland go through as they won the fixture.
if france were only to get 4 points from their match with georgia and the above scenario (?!!) happened then it would be fra, arge and ire all on the same points together with 1 win each so then it would, indeed, be down to points diff (bad luck ireland)
i presume you're from cork so enjoy some more murphy's as you check the small print!
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BOD must be selected at #15 if Ireland are to have any chance against Argentina. BOD is well past his "use by" date as a center. He no longer has the subtle edge that he once had and furthermore he will always be a marked man as long as he is in easy reach of his opposing center. Argentina will kill him.
For Ireland to have any chance against Argentina they must select two centers that can take a hit and offload to BOD. Coming in from the back he can be a nightmare for opposing defenders. Right now he is an easy target - everyone knows his MO.
Ireland needs to snap out of their predictable and feeble approach to the game. BOD at #15 will put a bit of spark back into their game. Simply tinkering with a selection here and there is the recipe for the mess they are in right now.
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Honest Tim,
welcome back...we have missed you...it is good to see your arrogance has not diminished in your absence...still lauding an English team that has a much easier pool draw than the Irish. Ireland are playing poorly and will, in all likelihood be on their way home soon. England are playing poorly and will qualify on the back of a weaker pool...not much to crow about there.
To my fellow Irishmen, I am sick of the anthem being used as an excuse...look at SA...50 years of institutionalk racism and they get behind their new anthem....admittedly it is more motivating than Ireland's call.
As others have pointed out, we were underdogs on friday night...didn't do us much good.
The referee was not to blame for Ireland's loss...it was poor coaching, an unimaginative game plan and a lack of passion.
ROG was never a world class #10...and his kicking in this tournament has demonstrated that. Carter may have missed place kicks...but he still dominated the game with his decision making...something ROG cannot do.
The IRFU needs to conduct a serious autopsy of this debacle and take steps to build for the future. That being said, i doubt that will happen because they will want tp protect their own jobs.
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Where has it all gone wrong well maybe this offers us answers?
I been hearing for years that France don鈥檛 travel well, but what about us, well our overseas record is disastrous. All our big wins over the last few years have come at home.
While away from HQ this year we scraped past Wales and Scotland, then we go and loose twice to Argentina in the summer, then we fall to Scotland, and almost lost to Namibia and Georgia and now France trash us yet again!
I like most Irish people today feel disappointed that our dream has died. I鈥檓 not angry, but frustrated as to why our talented team hasn鈥檛 delivered. This is a team of great players, but yesterday none of them offered anything. Even ODriscoll was average.
Blame EOS, blame the ref, blame the selection, but maybe there simply isn鈥檛 one.
Sure EOS has been terrible with his decision to field pretty much the same team for all 3 matches and not to use his bench. This is a repeat of the same mistake he made 4 years ago. But who do you bring on, there鈥檚 no depth to our squad which we now realize, and the reason is because EOS never tinkers with his formations.
Look at the ABs and Henrys approach, when they visited the British Isles 3 years back he played two totally different sides in games, we though this was crazy but they spanked us. But now we see that it made sense to blood guys in the case of injury or loss of form while throwing them into the coalface of international rugby.
We don鈥檛 have the quality that they have to play two different teams, but we should have mixed up a little over the last 4 years.
Redden should have been given game time over the last few years, so to should have Jeremy Staunton at out half, or Bob Casey in the second row and the talented Heaslip in the back row. It鈥檚 also sad that this is our best team with no injuries and this is the results were getting in return.
EOS should have gone from the team when we lost to France in Paris two years ago but the second half display kept him in a job, and its always been whispered that that second half came from the heart and not his tactics sheet.
The game of rugby evolves faster than any other field game so you need to address that by keeping management and tactics fresh, which is obvious EOS hasnt. Look at our great line out from last year, or our back line moves, which are now stale and easily dealt with 6 months later.
Time for a change, but who? Bradley isn鈥檛 ready for it, Gatland would never take it back, maybe Ruddock would be interested.
As for the refs performance, who has come in for a great deal of flak in the aftermath. Well I watched the match in Spanish in South America and I couldn鈥檛 understand the commentary, so I had an impartial view to the game. My opinion on the ref was that he wasn鈥檛 bad at all, he was tough yes, but consistent. Wallace got a talking to for standing on Chabal, but so did Ibanez for his dance. Our discipline was terrible and we were lucky not to have had somebody in the bin long before we did. He was ticking us off constantly, and the players should grasp their limitations, but they didn鈥檛 and they paid the price. As for the two tries that were not given, I think we were more than fortunate. The first looked good to me and so did the second, remember when Shane Byrne did the same trick with Mal OKelly a few years back?
The selection for yesterday鈥檚 game was about right, many people were saying Neil Best should have been on. The truth is that Neil best hasn鈥檛 been the same player that we saw against the Aussies or the South Africans and so I don鈥檛 feel he would have made any difference.
Our forwards stood up well in the scrum. Our line out was a shambles, we lost too many to count and we hardly contested the oppositions which was very sad to witness. And our back line which received hardly any ball offered no penetration what so ever, no fluidity, no breaking runs, a waste of talent. I though we have at least one or two nice back plays up our sleeves to open their defense for this game but there was nothing what has EOS being doing for the last 6 months?
3.Horan was bad, stupid tackle from an off side position.
5.The Bull was ok.
3.Flannery is not at his best either, throwing was terrible.
5.OConnell, mediocre.
4.OCallaghan, below par.
6.Easterby, played well-ish.
4.Wallace, a shadow of himself.
2.Leamy, hopeless.
6.Redden, hard game to be thrown into but played well enough.
5.OGara, below average.
3.Darcy, nothing.
5.ODriscoll, one superb tackle and not much more.
3.Trimble, nervous.
3.Horgan, bad day at the office.
5.Dempsey, same ol same ol.
For the Argentina game Id like to see
Best given a run in place of Wallace.
Ferris on the bench for Leamy.
OKelly for his line out abilities in place of OCallaghan.
Id like to see Darcy dropped, but for who?
Murphy on the bench or in place of Dempsey. The thing is Murphy hasn鈥檛 played well at international level since he broke his leg 4 years ago, but maybe it鈥檚 worth a shot.
And Carney for Trimble. Carney will break tackles and this is what we need. EOS needs balls to give him a run, and remember what Henry/Woodward did with Billy Whiz, so what have we got to loose.
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As is often the case with "great" Irish sporting stars, it is another "so near and yet so far" scenario. George Best, Roy Keane (walking out on the Irish team in their time of need!), Alex Higgins, Paul Mc Grath and now the Irish rugby team. There seems to be something in the Irish psyche that they never perform to their true potential when it's needed. I never expected my Ireland to win the RWC, but they seem to have got it into their heads that they would. Another disaster. They may beat Argentina (who deserve to go through on merit in any case) but their mindset that they have never beaten New Zealand will be enough to knock them out of the competition
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"The first thing is to win the match. The danger is you go out and attempt to score four tries and end up losing." Said D'arcy.
Is he mad? There is no point in winning if we don't score four tries. Setting out to score 4 tries whether we lose or not is the only way to play the game. What D'arcy means is that the first thing is to score 4 tries and then win the match. When I read that Irish players were unaware of the demands on them in terms of bonus points etc after the French match I wondered how people so thick and cossetted ever made it into international rugby. Would they not even want to find out for themselves. And why hadn't that twerp O'Sullivan drummed into them that getting within 7 point of France would have made all the difference to their qualification chances. Disgraceful, amateurish, pathetic.
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BOD must play fullback if Ireland is to have any kind of offense
against Argentina. He has been double teamed and shut down by everyone
so far and the Pumas will do it even more effectively if he is standing
there in easy reach right in front of them. Select any two decent
centers that are capable of off-loading in tackles and give BOD a
license to run off of them and Ireland will have a chance. BOD has long
past his "sell by" date as an OC. He has lost his subtle skills edge
there and virtually everyone is on to his MO - the evidence is there,
he has had virtually no impact on the tournament and in the lead-up.
However, the "mature" BOD is still a great player and will be a
devastating attacking fullback in the mode of Chris Latham.
Don't pay any attention to this. I want Argentina to beat Ireland, win
the pool, and Australia to win it all - BOD at FB may screw things up.
That said, I still like Ireland and it is time Eddie O and their
selectors wake up and put together a team that can play a game worth
watching. BOD at FB will be a big start in the right direction.
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I wonder what the odds were for Ireland not to qualify from the group stage? I wonder if ROG knows?
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I am really disappointed that ireland have not played well at all. I was hoping for more teams to be competing for the world cup this time around but it looks the usual 3 Aust, NZ, and S.Africa along with someone else like Argentina might be fighting it out again. It would be good to see the 4 main Southern hemisphere teams in the semis. I think France simply aren
t good enough to get past the Southern hemsiphere teams.
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"With regards to EOS not bringing in new players the likes of Horan, Best, Flannery, Best, Young, DOC, POC, Hogan, Leamy, Best, Heaslip, Ferris, Wallace, Wallace, Reddan, Boss, Trimble, Carney, Bowe, Kearney, Fitzgerald etc have all come in under EOS."
How many of them came in and established themselves? Horan, one of the hookers (take your pick), the O'Cs, Leamy, Trimble. I've left David Wallace out because he was out of favour when we were all calling for his return.
Barely half a team over the space of seven years. It almost makes Andy Robinson look revolutionary.
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Hello everyone,
Regarding poster's comment #138, D7Arcy isn't mad to state his way to win the game against Argentina. Of course he wants Ireland to win by 4 tries. What D' Arcy is referring to is that the Ireland team will become so over anxious to achieve this target that it will enf up making even more mistakes. D'Arcy is hoping that by playing steadily to the patterns of play that brought success to Ireland in the past, that by this 4 tries can be racked up. Simply said D'Arcy is trying to keep panic stations away from the team's mindset. The Ireland team knows now what it must do, the execution of this goal demands restoring Ireland's successful winning patterns from 2006 and 2005.
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'Ireland - Physically Fit, Muddled Mindset.....Perhaps'
For the most part, posters comments throw some light on some truths about the Ireland team's performances. In the final analyis though, the one key question to ask is 'why'? Why has Ireland been so poor?
Various comments on
- team fitness,
- team passion,
- patterns of play
- positional play
- players benched or not used
- poor management etc.
- poor team spirit and internal strife
suggest possible answers. But in the end there would seem to be something deeper than all of these. Afterall this same team and management have produced successful and fine performances up until as recently as this year's 6 Nations. In that case all of the above issues were not a problem for the team for the most part.
When the team returns to Ireland, it will have to look many things but one area in particular, it seems, is the teams mindset and how well was it prepared for this World Cup.
As a possible suggestion to the core problem for Ireland, one could investigate the environment in which the team was prepared. The key issue may have been the conditioning of the players to avoid injury at all costs. It would be interesting to investigate how each team member was conditioned at Spala, Poland where the objective there was to prepare the team to be more resilient against injuries. Imagine a climate where management, doctors and experts condition a person to be strong against potential injuries but then inadvertently also condition the person to 'adjust' his game to avoid injury. What happened at Spala? it is true that for the most part the Ireland team has had no major injury concerns (thanks to Spala perhaps) but it can be argued that the team's mindset has been negatively affected?
Eqaully, when Munster and Leinster surprisingly lost their Heineken cup games this year, one could have also been surprised at the lack of indignation shown by these teams at those losses. Perhaps with an eye on the World Cup right up to our warm-up games from June to August this year, the mindset of the team was conditioned to avoid injury. Ireland does not have a real depth of players. Just look at the consternation raised when it was thought BOD may not play in the World Cup. Unlike most of the other rugby powers we cannot easily replace our star players.
Finally, this comment may be completly off the mark...in the end...only those within the team can provide more insight overall....but perhaps somewhere in the vicinity of Spala, injury-avoidance conditioning and lack of real depth in the team, just perhaps there is here also some new explanation for Ireland's poor performances.
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All in all very disappointing from Ireland... so far. Who knows what can happen on Sunday, but one thing is for sure Argentina aren't invincible. Yes they are very strong defensibly and at the moment a well-oiled machine. However, they've had no pressure on them as-of-yet. They have been fortunate enough to know exactly what they need to do in terms of point scoring, which is a major advantage. I don鈥檛 mean to undermine the Puma鈥檚 performances; they have performed brilliantly and definitely deserver their current position in the group. However, the point I am striving toward is that if Ireland can score 2 early tries on Sunday, then all of a sudden the Argentineans鈥 who are expected to win will be put under pressure and anything can happen. Just look at South Africa and Tonga game, once the Tongans got a couple of tries, SA were all over the place and urging the final whistle.
The performances to date have been woeful but I honestly think it鈥檚 the build up of pressure and a severe lack of confidence. Ireland really needed good, comfortable wins against Georgia and Namibia to be up for the France game and they just didn鈥檛 come and Ireland have just tried to force the results ever since.
To respond to the above blogs above about Ireland being lucky and there acclaim undeserved鈥 what a load of verbal crap. I鈥檇 say a team losing the six nations twice on points difference in the last 3 years it distinctively unlucky!
Also, (my last point, I promise) the SH teams are stronger than the NH simply because of their physical prowess. I鈥檓 not saying its right or wrong but all the SH teams pick the best talent from Tonga, Fiji or Samoa which gives them a huge advantage. The islanders鈥 are huge men and designed for rugby, 9 times out of 10 they鈥檒l break the game line and put their team in a great attacking position; ultimately giving the backs as much ball as they need.
I鈥檓 very proud to be Irish and it is frustrating to be watching a quality team play so poorly, but we all know what this side have done and still can do. Let鈥檚 not rule them out yet, I paid good money for my Ireland Jersey and I鈥檒l be certainly flying the flag for the lads on Sunday!
Up the Irish!
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143 is right - it will be all about patience on the night. No need to score 2 or 3 in the first 10 mins - even one in the first half, one earlyish in the second, then go at it hell for leather to score the other 2. It can be done - if our tactics are right. BIG IF!
Splendid article by Brendan Gallagher in today's Telegraph, giving reasons for Ireland's downfall.
1 Bad feelings in camp - admittedly not helped by L'Equipe, but no smoke without fire.
2 Ireland's fitness wrong - other countries eg Scotland bulked up and shaped up, Ireland went for the lean look - and look what it's done for POC, for example!
3 Selection wrong - as has been said here so many times, wrong not to choose Murphy, Neil Best and, to some extent at least, MOK.
4 Planning wrong. Strong squad should have gone to Argentina, first team should have played against Scotland. Narbonne episode was lamentable.
5 Hotel wrong - somewhere in an industrial estate near Bordeaux. Pathetic when you think of what beautiful hotels with grounds are available in France.
I think Brendan has got it just about spot-on. And what is the common denominator here? Yes, EOS.
It's all been said before - how we were widely tipped for at least the SF's v S Africa, perhaps even the Final. The buck stops at your door, Eddie - you've blown perhaps the best chance we'll ever have in the World Cup. Time to go.
But just before you do, show us that, despite your mistakes, you're still a big man, not afraid to admit them - pick Murphy, Neil Best, MOK and Ferris for Argentina, possibly Wallace too (we don't know what ROG's mental state is) and let's give it our best shot on Sunday, as a reminder of what might have been!
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Can someone confirm what happens if France fail to get a bonus point against Georgia but Ireland win with a bonus point and deprive Argentina of one? I think that would leave all teams on 14 points but Ireland having a better head to head than Arg, Arg having a better head to head than France but France having a better head to head than Ireland. Does it go to points scored? If so then surely we want France to get a bonus point against Georgia...or lose totally?
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why dont we just go out and give it a quer oul lash have a bit o craic and who cares who wins .Sure it worked for years
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So there we go - what may well be EOS's final Ireland team selection.
And once again he's got it wrong. Yes, he's put Murphy in, though probably wouldn't if Dempsey hadn't been injured. But still no Neil Best!!! That just defies logic, not just to me, but to virtually all my fellow bloggers. Grow up. Eddie, and put away your pet favouritisms and childish dislikes - your managing your country's team, for God's sake! Looks like Leamy is approaching the 'untouchable' status too - why not give young Ferris a go, couldn't do any worse than Leamy has done. And still no MOK - until the 79th minute, that is!!
Eddie, you've blown it again - and this time our final chance at redemption. Please just go - you've let too many people down.
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Dont worry Ireland..
Ireland has the players to win their next match against Pumas and pass to the next stage, no doubt about that. (Even though the south Americans are having a good campaign, but they still part of the 'minows') . But what it worries me is the appointment of the (official) referee Paul Honiss , this kiwi-man, has the tendency to apply different rules to different teams, showing a favoritism for the 'bigger team' (especially the ones that generate bigger revenues) the international press vote him the worst official in history, after the Springboks beat Samoa, it also made awful decisions in the opening match in Australia 2003. He will be the mayor threat for the Pumas.
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I have just seen the team for the Argentina game--same forwards exactly!!!!!!. EOS is a total tube. I think he must have money riding on Ireland to go out before quarters. No Neil Best and he has kept faith with O'Gara who had, against the French, without question, the worst game I have ever seen from an Ireland player. If reports about O'Gara's gambling are true, his punting in every facet of life is abominably poor. EOS, you have the intellectual capacity of a squashed apricot-- this set of forwards will be destroyed by the Argentinians at the breakdown. Go home to Youghal and take up embroidery.
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Yes, Eddie O'Sullivan is obviously a total cretin. He hasn't had ANYTHING to do with the most successful era ever in Irish rugby. Some of the posts on here are hilarious.
A taste of what has been said - the success enjoyed by the team over the last few seasons is because of Gatland's legacy, and nothing to do with O'Sullivan! What is this opinion based on? The fact that under Gatland, we used to get spanked by all the top nations, home and away?
Someone also called for BOD to play at full back. Honestly, if I didn't laugh I'd cry. Please don't comment on a rugby blog if you know absolutely nothing about the game.
And yes, of course we should drop O'Gara. He hasn't played well of late so axe him and bring in Paddy Wallace, who doesn't even play for Ulster at fly half! If any of the top number 10s in the world had a few bad games (Carter, Wilkinson), would they be dropped? Not a chance. And yet we should drop O'Gara? Why?
Can we please leave the witch-hunt until after the tournament? Or just stop spouting such utter nonsense.
And Honest Tim - England will get to the Semis will they? Providing they beat Tonga (which I wouldn't bet on), they'll beat Australia in the Quarters? You've been drinking too much Pimm's.
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glenn come on- drpooing o gara for that tool wallace? what planet are you on? rog might not have had the best wc but he hasnt been any worse than the rest of the squad. and dropping an experienced international with a heineken cup medal under his belt for a basically rubbish not exactly a no 10? well that's just an ideal solution. as for honest tim- he'd do better to look at england rather than ireland as ireland would still hammer england even after this wc shambles.
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It's good to have Honest Tim but Dim back with us - always good for a laugh. England to beat Australia - where do you live, cloud cuckoo land? They may not even beat Tonga!
And before you crow any more, just remember that Ireland have beaten England on their last 4 meetings! So come off your high horse - I wonder how England would have fared in 'the Group of Death'?
Moving on, appalled at EOS. Haven't been a fan of his for a while, but really thought he would go someway to atone for his mistakes by picking the right team for Argentina, which would see us going out on a high note and show us just what might have been. So what does maestro Eddie do? Keeps the same pack!! How can he not play Neil Best and MOK? Although at least they are on the bench, so under Eddie's way of 'thinking', they'll at least be on around the 79th minute. And Leamy has seemingly joined Easterby as another 'untouchable' - just turn up, in whatever state, and your playing.
How can he be so blinkered, so petty, so loyal to his favourites - Eddie, you've let us all down, players and fans alike. It's time for you to go.
What do you think, Honest Tim but Dim, fancy a new coach?
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I think The Kingdom (no 52) ought to take time to read more carefully what Glenn (no 51) actually said!
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to thekingdom - you should read Glenns post more carefully he was being sarcastic.
I totally agree with Glenn - great post. Come on everyone get behind the team. No-one is ever going to agree with the coaches selections we are where we are.
Now who is going to Paris for Sunday and are we going to paint the town green again? Whatever lets go out with a bang!
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I don't know how we can honestly give EOS credit for the success of Irish rugby. At the risk of offending many of my fellow Irishmen, our recent successes were against teams in decline, or in an experimental phase...read England and Scotland for decline and SA and Australia for experimental.
I do not necessarily believe that Gatland is responsible for the success of the Irish team, but he helped the team make the transition from amateur to professional. He also brought many of the current squad into the team...and unlike the current coach he has won major championships. He also, like EOS, almost guided the team to their first victory over NZ.
One thing that Gatland did have going for him was that he was an outsider...but that may also have contributed to his downfall.
I am not sure that bringing Gatland back is the answer, but a new coach, with fresh ideas and experience in winning major competitions (not the triple crown) is what is needed.
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I'm sick of hearing about this group of Death nonsense, Namibia and Georgia are not good teams, yet we barely beat them. Also our 2nd string only just lost to Argintina in the first tour game so you'd expect the "1st XV" to fair better??? Totally agree with the Gatland comments, Eddie's success has been off the back of what Gatland did. A few points I'd like to raise, why is P Wallace in the squad if he's not going to used? Clearly ROG should be dropped on current form. EOS should have taken another fly half Staunton, Burke,Ian or David Humphries)in that case. Why is there no other no. 8 in the squad, Wilson plays 8 for Ulster not Ferris, Leamey is plain awful at the moment. Why was O'Kelly not given more game time in warm ups? Why do Ireland (and Ulster) play Trimble on the wing? he's a center.
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Some real sharp ones on this blog. Johny S @ 123 and thekingdom @ 153 in particular, take a bow, you guys don鈥檛 let ANYTHING past you鈥
But seriously, let鈥檚 get Gatland back in but this time as player-manager, O鈥橠riscoll can play centre AND fullback, with the spare man alternating from wing to wing and occasionally popping up in the lineout in a surprise move i'd like to call 鈥減eek-a-boo-1-2鈥, and I fancy the Gooch at out-half for the craic.
Now that's how it's done
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Ulster play Trimble on the wing because they play Wallace at Centre because they play Humphries at 10.
Much as I am a huge Humphries fan, does this really do Ulster or Ireland any good?
The arguemnt could be made that the IRFU should have put pressure on Ulster to play Wallace at 10 and Trimble at centre to promote the good of the national squad.
That being said, the majority of bloggers here seem to think both are rubbish and so it would be a moot point.
I don't care who plays against Argentina, only that they lift their game and do themselves and Ireland proud.
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That鈥檚 it Johny S, you鈥檝e gone too far this time! I鈥檓 sorry, but your points are all so wrong. Before any of your fellow fair-weather fans start running away with your insane theories, I鈥檇 like to make a few points!
You said: 鈥淚'm sick of hearing about this group of Death nonsense, Namibia and Georgia are not good teams, yet we barely beat them.鈥
- It was billed as the group of death by the media before the WC because it contained 3 of the top 6 ranked teams in the World
You said: 鈥淎lso our 2nd string only just lost to Argentina in the first tour game so you'd expect the "1st XV" to fair better???鈥
- Maybe you should look at the team Argentina had out for those so-called 鈥渢ests鈥
You said: 鈥淭otally agree with the Gatland comments, Eddie's success has been off the back of what Gatland did.鈥
- This statement is so wrong on so many levels that it could only be made by someone with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of the game.
You said: 鈥淎 few points I'd like to raise, why is P Wallace in the squad if he's not going to used? Clearly ROG should be dropped on current form. EOS should have taken another fly half Staunton, Burke, Ian or David Humphries)in that case.鈥
- Staunton, what?!?! Absolutely ridiculous suggestion
- Burke, or David Humphreys? Maybe they鈥檙e not there because they鈥檝e actually retired from International rugby
- Ian Humphreys? Why, obviously because he gets SO much game time in Leicester!
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"A taste of what has been said - the success enjoyed by the team over the last few seasons is because of Gatland's legacy, and nothing to do with O'Sullivan! What is this opinion based on? The fact that under Gatland, we used to get spanked by all the top nations, home and away"
Finally, someone else who remembers what Ireland were like under Saint Gatland.
My presiding memory of him was the look of resignation on his face as England put 50 past us in the 2000 6N and the commentators were speculating how long he could cling on for. Against Scotland in the next game he threw in five new caps - Hayes, Easterby, Stringer, O'Gara and Horgan - and we went on to win.
That last act of desperation, though it paid off, was hardly something to beatify him over... more the case of a last throw of the die. Eddie doesn't need to do that because his job's not on the line, hence we see the same old lineup.
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I know where it has all gone wrong - Father Jack had his hair cut as a result he now drops the ball and can't run as fast.
VAMOS IRLANDA!!!!
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I think all 6 Nations team have forgotten what rugby is all about: HEART.
When I was 18 I travelled to UK to live tehre for one year and as I did in Argentina I decided to play rugby over there. First skill to show up: tackle. Good tackles, shoulders going low to the adversary's knees. Second: fighting every ball as if it was the last one.
I always admired the Irish team, because they played an open game, with players like O'Driscoll running like noone was in front of them. But something happened to this Irish team, they are not confident.
Argentina is going to win, because we want it more, just as simple as that. And I'm sorry to tell.. we'll get the bonus, we'll get 5 points.
I hope this achievmente will take us to a "7" Nations or that Italy get excluded so we can get in the 6N.
Greetings from Argentina
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Glenn (#152)takes a crack (laughs and crys - better drugs might help) at my suggestion that BOD should play FB. Despite his comment that people who know nothing about the game should stay home he keeps on mumbling for two more paragraphs and manages to say absolutely nothing, nada, zip!
BOD needs room to run and Argentina will give him none at center. Will he be wasted at FB? What is there to waste? Wait till after the tournament to fix things, Glenn? NO PROBLEM for me - Ireland is only #3 on my favorites list, after OZ and Argentina.
Glenn, for you the tournament will be over when Argentina get done thumping BOD at #13 and dismantling what is left of Ireland for practice. So, early next week (when the boys are back home resting)I for one will be waiting to read your insightful, comprehensive, and undoubtedly profoundly rugby-wise solutions to the IRFU's problems. I just know it will be really good - I'll get someone who really knows the game to explain your solutions to me. Get to work.
OZ to win it all!
Cheers
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After reading the starting XV that EOS has picked for Sunday, I am convinced his goal is to get a bonus point. A bonus point for loosing by less than 8 points.
I disagree with Juan's comment (#164)
The 6N are fine the way they are, Argentina should push to be part of the 3N. Doing good in the 6N creates the false sense that we really have a good team. If you don't agree, look at the 6N now -Wales is the exception-
I am convinced that Argentina will beat Ireland and score 4 tries. This will be actually good for the IRUF since it will start the renovation process ASAP. Amen to MarkMan22 comments.
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In respone to fluffy @ 161. So no matter how badly yout fly half is playing he keeps his place until he retires? I just offered up a few alternativies to P Walace as EOS clearly doesn't believe he's up to it or he'd have started a game by now. As for the Gatland comments, thats my opinion and perhaps playing rugby for 20 years doesn't give me sufficient knowledge to comment on the game. As for being a "fair weather" fan, I remember only too well the dark days since 1985, and 22 years later we still haven't won anything and I think we SHOULD have. In the last 6 years with the players available at EOS' disposal should have won at least one, if not two 6 Nations titles. I guess I just hoped for a bit more than some.
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I agree with comment #22. It must be that the top Irish players are out of practice in playing high level test rugby.
Key players were not heavily involved in the international 'warm ups'. And it was a real pity that EOS didn't get much out of those matches in terms of expanding depth in the team. Players and coaching staff must all accept responsibility for that.
Munster and Leinster didn't get past the quarters of the Heineken Cup. Neither did Ulster but at least the players from that camp were more involved in the warm ups. Murphy and Reddan were involved in Premiership and European wins and is good to see these guys getting involved with the Irish side again. Hopefully now, after the last three games, the rest of the squad are acclimatised to the hard tackles, blitz defence and lack of space which characterise this level of test rugby.
I also think it is dangerous when Ireland have 'expectations' of themselves - 'aims and ambitions' yes but not 'expectations'. They expected to get big victories over Namibia and Georgia and couldn't cope when that wasn't happening during the games. As such, confidence in themselves and any game plan that they had was out the window against France.
I really feel for the Irish players and hope things go more their way against Argentina. In our favour I feel that the Irish players will not expect to win but are aiming to win. They need to force Argentina to play in their own half and not allow them to dominate the game and force ireland to take risks in the Ireland half like the other teams have done.
I'm sure Argentina will play to their best as they've been doing and I hope Ireland will be able to raise their game for this. If that happens, we will be in for a great match.
I am frustrated with the Ireland performances so far but will not lose faith. Best of luck guys!
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One thing Ive noticed about O'Driscoll, particularly since the last world cup is the change of his physique. He has packed on a lot of muscle and bulked up considerably over he last couple of years, as has D'Arcy but not quite as much.
I realise that this is a requirement when getting early to the breakdown to try to steal posession but has this extra size possibly slowed him down? Is this therefore a reason why he isnt as fast and zippy in making breaks as in previous years?
Any comments?
I also feel that this team unfortunately have been playing in an under par 6 nations tournament and have believed their own press. It may be time to break up the cosy cartel first 15 and give some of the young guys a chance. Im hoping for a miracle and will continue to support but living as I do in Oz its hard, especially with the Aussies looking so good.
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Lots of talk on here about training methods and preparation, however, has anyone stopped to look at the weight, power and physical make up of our team and how we seemed to have been driven back in so many of the tight exchanges?
In the Forwards, and let's face it that's where it's been most noticeable, Ireland has a realitively light weight pack, with the likes of Horan, Wallace and Flannery all registering well below average body weight for their positions! The exception would be Hayes however he is ponderous and slow and thus doesn't fully exploit all that mass! I know weight isn't a pre-requiste for power however, muscle mass generally is. In fact in todays modern game more weight generally means more muscle, which generally manifests itself in more power! I actually stated on a blog some weeks ahead of the world cup that I would be much more comfortable with a pack of: B.Young, R.Best, J.Hayes, P.O'Connell, B.Casey, D.Leamy J.Heaslip & N.Best than what EOS always goes with and these players would definately give us additional poundage and greater power and enable us to match some of the bigger teams in the tight.
In terms of the backs - funnily enough the opposite seems to have occurred, with both BOD and Darcy realising they both needed to gain more weight to; meet the riggers of modern defensive tackling and more importantly under EOS's system be able to assist at the breakdown, however it seems nobody put any thought into the implications the extra mass would have on speed, or subltleness...
Just a thought and seeing how we've been bullied and bossed in the forwards something to consider me thinks?
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Johny S,
Apologies for the fair-weather-fan jibe, it was a cheap shot. All the same, there are some absolute howlers of comments in there!!
Don鈥檛 take it personally, I鈥檝e played with guys who were good players in their own right but still wouldn鈥檛 have a breeze about how to read the game.
Ireland to scalp the Argies on Sunday!
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YE HAVE LITTLE FAITH!!!!
this blogg appauls me lol but seriously the lack of support for the irish side is terrible when they played well in the 6N an looked like a strong team every1 was up in arms about this amazin irish side! but now that they have had a bad start to the world cup every1 starts pointing the finger an jumping on the bandwagon!!?
GLORY HUNTERS THE LOT OF YE'S!
we're irish luck has to come into play sometime in the world cup lol support ur national team with pride the french might have hammered us but if came to fight we would easily woop ther ass!
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One of the biggest problems with Irish Rugby is one that has been smouldering for four years, not just the past few months. Ever since England won the World Cup we set them as the benchmark to which Irish Rugby should aspire and we have been doing a heavy ammount of back patting when we have overcome the 'paper World Champs' at every hurdle. The problem is that England are very much a second rate team. Beating them is by no stretch something to celebrate but merely something to be sattisfied with. France, on the other hand, are the benchmark we should have been looking at in the six nations and we haven't been too hot against them. We now have an overtrained and overhyped team that look genuinely dissillusioned as they have, understandably, believed their own press. I'm a huge O'Sullivan fan but surely it's time for him to break the mould somewhat and put in Malcolm O'Kelly and Neil Best to at least make us more competitive at the lineout and breakdowns. If only David Humphries were still ayoung man.
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Well, there's been said a lot already, but maybe some of you irish guys should know that we argentineans really RESPECT, ADMIRE and somehow FEAR you.
This Sunday, let the best win, and hopefully we will drink a beer afterwards! Cheers!
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