Wales moving into gear (34)
- 23 Sep 07, 06:25 PM
Swansea - In the first match of Pool B Australia set a pretty daunting for our match against Japan but I think 11 tries and 72 points equals for Wales.
The text books went out of the window almost from the word go on Thursday night as both teams threw caution to the wind in the opening exchanges, pretty much setting the tone for the rest of the evening.
Such an opportunity for us to break the shackles and run with the ball usually sees us play our most potent and effective rugby and overall that did prove to be the case - not though, before the Japanese ensured there would be no resting on any laurels when they came up with the try of the tournament so far.
When Wales had the ball too they were tackled ferociously - nobody feeling the brunt more so than Shane Williams who, unfortunately for him, got squarely hammered the first few times he had the ball!
But like I predicted the early resistance didn’t last and we ran out comfortable winners in the end.
There were some notable performances for Wales as well, with Colin Charvis, Martyn Williams and Mike Phillips all showing up very well.
Another mention too must go to Shane, who in skipping over for a couple of trademark touchdowns during the match also skipped straight passed of 33 international tries.
The height of the esteem in which is held in Welsh rugby circles bares testament to the magnitude of Shane’s achievement and what’s even more impressive is that he achieved the feat in 22 matches less than his predecessor. What a way to celebrate your 50th cap!
With 30,000 empty seats though, it was a shame there weren’t more there to see it. The opportunity to watch your team in a World Cup tie doesn’t come around all that often and from what I am aware there were still available.
Let’s take nothing away from those who were there though really bought into spirit of the evening and were nothing if not persistent with their Mexican Wave attempts. They were actually pretty good in the end!
There has been criticism of the amount of errors we made during the game but when you are playing at that kind of tempo, speed of thought is as vital as speed of movement and a certain error level is unavoidable.
We will have to iron out the flaws for the of course, but on the whole I thought we made a great statement as to our intent in the competition ahead.
Onto this weekend, it should be and for those of you who enjoy a punt I’ve decided its time to start putting my neck on the line and so my winners are: .
In fact not a whole lot of neck sticking out after all, but I’m sure it’ll still provoke some hearty debate and isn’t that why we’re here?
Over to you!
Ryan Jones plays number eight for Wales but misses the World Cup through injury.
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I still maintain Shane should be dropped for the Fiji match.
He isn't creating mayhem in the opposition ranks at the moment - which was always his biggest asset. At his best he's unpredictable and capable of scoring, or creating tries for others.
Since his return from injury the only mayhem he's caused is for his own team. He's proved predictable - spilling ball, getting hit back, missing tackles - and is not providing the sort of spark we need. Some of his mistakes have been laughable and although he's scored tries he's merely finished off moves (just as Dafydd James did against Japan, who looked more solid in attack and defence even if he's not as spectacular).
Shane is still talking up his own game, but maybe he needs to be dropped to give him a kick up the backside so he gets back to his best? He would usually be my first choice, but he's not there on merit at the moment.
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I agree in general with Ryan's remarks, though this World Cup suffers from the same issues as all others. There are simply too many one sided games. I quite enjoy watching the lesser teams play on the big stage, but as far as Wales are concerned the entire tournament will come down to 2 matches, Australia and now South Africa. Who, before the tournament honestly thought we wouldn't beat Canada, Fiji and Japan comfortably?
I was disappointed by Ryan's comments regarding the crowd size and seemingly ignorant understanding of ticket prices. This was a game played on a Thursday night. The top whack tickets were £120. I remember JD laughing at the ticket prices before the tournament on Scrum V. On the night, they were charging £16 for tickets (not impressive for those of us that forked out for over priced Cardiff packages), but the decision to sell cheaper seats came far too late and was not advertised properly. Once again, the greed of the organisers spoiled the event. I for one am fed up with the prices of watching Wales. It's bad enough what we pay for decent games, but to watch Japan?
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you said your winners are those 5 but is that in the matches over the weekend or tournament?
next weekend im going for England, Fiji, Scotland, Ireland (but still out), to win their games
England may well kick their points and give thE Aussies a game
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you said your winners are those 5 but is that in the matches over the weekend or tournament?
next weekend im going for England, Fiji, Scotland, Ireland (but still out), to win their games
England may well kick their points and give thE Aussies a game
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Ryan...you're a good bloke but you can't blame Wales for supporters not turning up.
19 games..6 wins? and playing a style that can only be described as confused..do you blame people? Watching Wales at the moment is extremely frustrating and not enjoyable atall.
Lets see some structure against Fiji and let the ball do the work.
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Hi Ryan, bad luck on your injury! Wales have actually been talked up by John Inverdale and co., apparently we're the best Ö÷²¥´óÐã Nations side in the tournament.
1. That is not difficult at all. A team of snakes would have better hands than Scotland, a team of jellyfish better imagination than England and a team of squirrels more grunt up front than Ireland
2. Even if we are, I'm afraid that we are too inconsistent, too error-prone, and we start too slowly. If we play Bokke and start like we did against Oz we will be thumped and deserve it
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Hi Ryan, bad luck on your injury! Wales have actually been talked up by John Inverdale and co., apparently we're the best Ö÷²¥´óÐã Nations side in the tournament.
1. That is not difficult at all. A team of snakes would have better hands than Scotland, a team of jellyfish better imagination than England and a team of squirrels more grunt up front than Ireland
2. Even if we are, I'm afraid that we are too inconsistent, too error-prone, and we start too slowly. If we play Bokke and start like we did against Oz we will be thumped and deserve it
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It was really frustrating to hear the comments coming in from callers on Ö÷²¥´óÐã Radio Wales on Thursday evening as I drove home after the Wales v Japan game. Supporters are complaining about a lack of shape and structure, about Gareth Jenkins not having a recognisable game plan, about the number of handling mistakes being made, and about certain players not being solid and reliable enough (see earlier comments in relation to Shane Williams).
I'm actually really positive about the way Wales are starting to play, and about the players and combinations being chosen, and I think we have a real chance of beating South Africa and going on to reach the world cup final for the first time.
Wales need to deconstruct the game as early as possible, and to play 15 man rugby in the most chaotic and unpredictable way imaginable. They have the natural ability to play exactly what is in front of them, and if they do that they can be a match for anyone. Of course they need to secure their share of first phase possession, and they need to hit hard and low to secure second phase and snatch turnover ball. But if they can keep putting pace on the ball, offloading in the tackle, and attacking from everywhere, I honestly believe they could beat anyone.
The Welsh game is starting to come together. I predict a 30 point margin over the Fijians, and I can't wait for that Sunday in Marseille in 2 weeks when we take on the South Africans!
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It was really frustrating to hear the comments coming in from callers on Ö÷²¥´óÐã Radio Wales on Thursday evening as I drove home after the Wales v Japan game. Supporters are complaining about a lack of shape and structure, about Gareth Jenkins not having a recognisable game plan, about the number of handling mistakes being made, and about certain players not being solid and reliable enough (see earlier comments in relation to Shane Williams).
I'm actually really positive about the way Wales are starting to play, and about the players and combinations being chosen, and I think we have a real chance of beating South Africa and going on to reach the world cup final for the first time.
Wales need to deconstruct the game as early as possible, and to play 15 man rugby in the most chaotic and unpredictable way imaginable. They have the natural ability to play exactly what is in front of them, and if they do that they can be a match for anyone. Of course they need to secure their share of first phase possession, and they need to hit hard and low to secure second phase and snatch turnover ball. But if they can keep putting pace on the ball, offloading in the tackle, and attacking from everywhere, I honestly believe they could beat anyone.
The Welsh game is starting to come together. I predict a 30 point margin over the Fijians, and I can't wait for that Sunday in Marseille in 2 weeks when we take on the South Africans!
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Along with many others, I am happy with the score against Japan, but far from happy with the high level of basic errors being made, and the lack of imagination from set pieces.
It would seem that the northern hemisphere nations are some 20-30 points behind our southern counterparts at present, and the Welsh team will have to up their game and play out of their skins for 80 minutes if they are to beat SA, assuming we put Fiji away. And we someone who can stop Habana in his tracks.
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Two Points: the ticket prices are way too high (I almost had to take out a mortgage to see the Australia game) BUT they are set by WRC (not the WRU) - so no point complaining locally about that.
Secondly, I am also fed up with the ridiculously negative whingers who always 'phone in after a game - I had to turn off the radio, it was so bad.
Be realistic - we were never favourites against Australia, especially since they sorted out their scrum. 72 points against Japan was pretty good - we played wella fter the first 10-15 minutes.
I don't think we have the players to beat South Africa, no matter what team we pick - but I don't expect us to lie down, as the English did.
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Meet SA in quarters? have I missed something, based on the performance against Japan 3rds we won't get there, I must take my TV back to Curry's and get it changed, as mine showed a shocking Welsh team, get turned over, knock on and generally play like under 11's in an earthquake! Alright, by the hour, Japan 3rd's had given up, but scored when they felt like running. These are professional rugby players, and not such a bad day at the office as sacked for incompetence! As welsh, we are generally either world Cup winners or scathing of our team, but there is no credit to be taken out of that performance, watch it again as I have, it's a comedy! from 1 to bench, keystone cops, Jenkins must go, and someone that can install the will to compete has to be brought in, We do not have a pack that can or will compete against the tougher sides, and a front 5 that would be mauled to submission by the likes of Namibia, Portugal, and Georigia heck the only pack we could dominate is Ireland! Still hope we make it passed Fiji, but I think it is a big ask! (will swop TV on day of quarters to aviod seeing it)
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I feel Wales are building some momentum but the stable door is swinging closed behind us in this tournament. Our chance was in beating Australia at home, it was there on a plate but we didn't come to the table. Yet again we have seen that in high level sport, the difference is mental preparation and strength. All Blacks and Argentina aside, I don't believe for a minute that our skill levels are behind the competition, we simply lack belief and our confidence on the pitch is fragile.
Wales are playing below their potential, they are underachieving - this is why watching them is so frustrating, but that's nothing new is it? Maybe it's part of the Welsh psychological make up that we're scared to raise the bar too high in case people expect us to reach it consistently.
As fans we are nervous about Fiji because we know from supporting Wales how the easily the worst case scenario can be realised, we've all been there. Our high tempo game is error prone and Fiji can punish those errors; if we play within ourselves we are like fish out of water, we are nervy and unsettled.
Don't know about you, but I'm bracing myself for another emotional roller coaster.
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As a Welshman I must contest the statement that England 'lay down' against South Africa. I thought they gave it absolutely everything, but were nowhere near good enough. I even found myself cheering them on as I felt they deserved a try for their endeavour. England paid a heavy price for having no spark in their backline (other than Robinson), conversely I expect Wales will come unstuck for having no grunt in the forwards.
No-one has pointed out how little respect we paid Japan on Thursday. We didn't seem interested in working on the basics (which are vital) and started playing sevens from the off. I heartily applauded Japan's tries not just because they were crackers but because they were the fruits of Wales' complacency; play like that against Fiji and I'll be watching through my fingers.
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The blame for the low turnout on Thursday night lies squarely with the WRC organising committee for insisting on an £11 per ticket 'booking fee'. I like many others who paid £30 plus for ordinary tickets was not best pleased to find I could have paid less on the night.
Cardiff has always had a better mix of people in its crowd than the elitist Twickenham and I would hate to see the stalwart supporters priced out of the ground.
More marks for greed must go to the Ibis hotel in Cardiff who for the Wednesday and Thursday nights put their room rates up from £59 (room only) to £90.
On the pitch I thought messrs Charvis, Williams and Phillips all looked in fine form. The team is undoubtedly progressing (albeit slowly)and I hope my prediction of a 12 point win for the Boks is proved wrong!
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Re. comments about Shane Williams: A winger is normally there to 'finish off' moves. It's what wingers do. They score the tries out wide after someone puts them in space. If we want to see more from Shane Williams then we need to see more of the style of game that puts Shane Williams at the forefront of the game plan. There's no point having a winger of Shane's ability in a team that is playing to a plan that appears too rigid and slow. If we were to see a more dynamic game from phase 1,2 or 3, Shane would be a key man. As would Peel (going through a mediocre patch and not playing his trademark game. Possibly the game plan.) Kevin Morgan (injuries allowing) would look almost world class again if we upped the tempo and invited the players to run the baffling lines they seem to enjoy running. Hell, even bring back Owen and go nuts! As it stands, I'd rather see Shane benched till the second half perhaps. The game plan sees him under pressure all the time. When things open up a bit though, it's a different ball game. Throw him on and watch him run.
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Should Wales win the World Cup and Gareth Jenkins receive the OBE, consequently who will the players want as his immediate replacement’
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Wales can beat anyone on their day, the problem is their day seems to be once every 5 years or so, where has the team that won the slam in 2005 gone? where is the quick ball, where are the direct and concise lines of running and where is the close support that allowed us to release the ball from contact.
We are all about passion and confidence and for 15 mins against Australia we had that and caused them trouble lets have it again.
We have the players so lets go at it like Newport on a Saturday night and cause some mayhem
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Should Wales win the World Cup and Gareth Jenkins receive the OBE, consequently who will the players want as his immediate replacement’
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Should Wales win the World Cup and Gareth Jenkins receive the OBE, consequently who will the players want as his immediate replacement’
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hi ryan jones wales tackie in the world cup been dread ful in 2005 win six nations wales tackie was very good now is very bad thanks steven
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Wales can beat anyone on their day, the problem is their day seems to be once every 5 years or so, where has the team that won the slam in 2005 gone? where is the quick ball, where are the direct and concise lines of running and where is the close support that allowed us to release the ball from contact.
We are all about passion and confidence and for 15 mins against Australia we had that and caused them trouble lets have it again.
We have the players so lets go at it like Newport on a Saturday night and cause some mayhem
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re: Phil E (16).
What makes Shane such a special player is his ability to create something out of nothing in broken play. Arguably, he offers much the same (or even less) as other wingers in the squad when we try conventional passing moves. His strength is broken field running and sweeping up bad ball, doing the unpredictable and creating chances as a result.
But he has not been doing that since his return. In broken field he's taken wrong options, got mashed or spilled the ball in frankly farcical style.
Without that spark in his game, it puts him on a par with Dafydd James - who is a solid finisher of moves but has an advantage in being equally solid in defence (something which Shane has never been).
It is in that context that I believe he should be dropped for the Fiji match where physicality will be hugely important.
If he isn't offering his unpredictable or a creative spark, then he becomes a luxury we can't afford.
I wish it wasn't so. There is no greater sight than Shane in full flow, but it simply isn't happening like that at the moment.
I would love nothing more than for him to prove me wrong.
On the issue of tickets and such like. I don't see that we've had any benefit from playing two of our matches in Cardiff. We didn't perform against the Aussies and we should beat Japan comfortably wherever the match is played. If any game needed to be played in Cardiff it should have been this coming Saturday's crunch decider against Fiji.
The Scots have hardly taken advantage of "home" matches either.
It is a French tournament, we should have played all the matches in France. Ironically, as we all love away trips, the Welsh invasion would probably have been huge.
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At present it seems the Welsh fans seem to think Wales are great or rubbish. Whatever your leaning, the one thing, without exception, we must all do is get behind our team. We are all sofa experts and very few of us have played in the rarifyed arena of international rugby. All the players from 1 to 22 give their all and that should be applauded and supported. With 100% commitment and passion behind the team they are capable of beating most other nations. We are a fickle bunch of supporters so let's be positive and give our guys the support they deserve and who know's we may be partying through till xmas!
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No.24 - couldn't agree more with you. Hi Ryan, great comment about the support. I was at the stadium on Thursday night and had a really good night. It was a very enjoyable game and our boys did great. I'm not going to get into the whole Jenkins and how we are playing or should play, but I want to say something on the support. I am Welsh, our national game is Rugby, we love it and live by it, playing for Wales must feel amazing, second to that is being in that stadium supporting our lads, forget all the stuff around it. It boils down to just supporting the lads.
I saw Wales play the Aussies, the stadium was packed, the tickets were more expensive, yes there were a lot of Aussies but it annoys me so much that some so called Welsh fans will move mountains to get tickets for the big games, then cannot be arsed to turn up for the lower key games 'oh its only Japan'. I bought my ticket for £30 5 months ago, to expensive, rubbish, enough people found the money for the more expensive Aussie game.
So if you’re Welsh and you feel passionate about Welsh rugby then get yourself in that stadium and support our boys, doesn’t matter who they play, be proud to cheer them on. I saw the boys play France and Argentina, again in a half empty stadium, it shouldn’t be that way for a nation that is supposedly rugby crazy…I start to doubt it.
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The only god thing about there not being so many people at the match on Thursday was the rare option to swap ends at half time. It seemed like a majority decision so I went along with it and got to see Wales scoring tries right in front of me in both halves. Fantastic.
That said I'm sure the atmosphere would have been better if the Millenium was full but with prices as high as they were for the game and it being on a Thursday I'm not suprised that not so many turned out.
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The only good thing about there not being so many people at the match on Thursday was the rare option to swap ends at half time. It seemed like a majority decision so I went along with it and got to see Wales scoring tries right in front of me in both halves. Fantastic.
That said I'm sure the atmosphere would have been better if the Millenium was full but with prices as high as they were for the game and it being on a Thursday I'm not suprised that not so many turned out.
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plenty of you guys are probably heading to nantes, or are there already. couple of points:
Nantes was great fun, they seemed really geared up for the World Cup and both Friday and Saturday nights were great fun. Lots of events and special deals/ parties, and hundreds of helpful French students in Barbarian-style shirts offering help and information. Well done Nantes!
Couple of bits of feedback:
* Trams run late on Saturdays and Sundays, until about 0230 but NOT on Fridays - even after France/Ireland game which loads watched on big screens. Last trams about 1230.
* Taxis are in short supply, huge lines waiting for very, very few cabs, we tried various options, but having missed our last tram to the end of the blue line, there were none to be had, didn't even see any full ones with the lights off. And we ended up walking, following the tram tracks - about 7km. Even with the benefit of sober hindsight I don't think we had much choice. So don't miss the tram on Friday, even if you are celebrating England losing to a team in red shirts!
* Toilets. No bar nor restaurant, regardless of size, seemed to have more than two toilets. A few portable ones on the street, but still a few long waits.
* Beer. Amstel Free, the only beer served in the ground, is alcohol-free. They don't volunteer this information, and I've heard of lots of people having half a dozen pints and kidding themselves they were p1$sed. You can get proper beer outside the ground and last Sat they were letting people walk in with a pint at our entrance.
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I didn't see the match on Thursday so I'm probably not at liberty to
form an opinion on the basis of what I've only read, but it strikes me
that (as always) our expectations as a Nation far exceed the
capabilities of the individual players we have. I'm not saying we are
"talentless" - far from it. What I'm saying is that we don't, for
example, breed 6'6" tanks to thump through the gainline - we make the
best of what we have, and our expectations should reflect that.
Don't get me wrong, Shane Williams is quick, instinctive, aware and
quick to capitalise, but I am sick to the back teeth of people who hail
him as some kind of messiah who's inclusion in the team defies question.
He is not. He provides a spark which seems to wake the rest up, when
they're in danger of slipping into the stodgy, lateral, error-ridden
game they like to perceive as phase-play. And he is not above the
occasional howler either.
For a change, I think (and I could not have predicted saying this six
months ago) Jenkins has instilled a healthy dose of realism into the
squad - I dont think they are responsible for the hype that invariably
surrounds them. And that, tied with the will to win should see them get
to the quarters at the very least. Personally, I think that given the
right set of circumstances (the lunar cycle, astrological factors,
divine intervention....etc [JOKE]) this set of players are capable of
beating SA, as long as they maintain the confidence in their own
game-plan and don't start the game playing catch-up.
For what its worth, I agree with Ryan's predictions for next week [on
the proviso that I am able to find a way, in between now and then, to
edit this comment...]
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didn't see the match on Thursday so I'm probably not at liberty to
form an opinion on the basis of what I've only read, but it strikes me
that (as always) our expectations as a Nation far exceed the
capabilities of the individual players we have. I'm not saying we are
"talentless" - far from it. What I'm saying is that we don't, for
example, breed 6'6" tanks to thump through the gainline - we make the
best of what we have, and our expectations should reflect that.
Don't get me wrong, Shane Williams is quick, instinctive, aware and
quick to capitalise, but I am sick to the back teeth of people who hail
him as some kind of messiah who's inclusion in the team defies question.
He is not. He provides a spark which seems to wake the rest up, when
they're in danger of slipping into the stodgy, lateral, error-ridden
game they like to perceive as phase-play. And he is not above the
occasional howler either.
For a change, I think (and I could not have predicted saying this six
months ago) Jenkins has instilled a healthy dose of realism into the
squad - I dont think they are responsible for the hype that invariably
surrounds them. And that, tied with the will to win should see them get
to the quarters at the very least. Personally, I think that given the
right set of circumstances (the lunar cycle, astrological factors,
divine intervention....etc [JOKE]) this set of players are capable of
beating SA, as long as they maintain the confidence in their own
game-plan and don't start the game playing catch-up.
For what its worth, I agree with Ryan's predictions for next week [on
the proviso that I am able to find a way, in between now and then, to
edit this comment...]
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To basilfawlty - according to John Kirwan he picked his strongest team against Wales and picked his reserve players against Australia.
To be honest I think we put the SH teams on too much of a pedastol, especially evident in Scotland throwing away the chance of a in.
However they aren't perfect. One comment above says they are 30 points better than the NH - but Oz beat Wales by 12 (and we missed 3 easy kicks at goal).
When we watch Wales play there's an emotional response whenever we knock on or get turned over so it sticks. I'd advise taking a look at the SA v Tonga game or Australia's first half against Japan or New Zealand v Scotland reserved and imagine the players in Wales shirts. They suddenly won't look so perfect. Good but not as unstoppable as we think.
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To the people who has written in complaining about everything that is Welsh, especially ticket prices,I do agree that the prices are too high to see the boys play live but just spare a thought for the supporters like me who now live abroad, in my case America, we still have this deep love of Welsh rugby, the ones who will never ever be able to travel home to see a live match.
We are confined to just reading about each game,most times not even able to see the highlights,we wish we had attended more matches when we were there and had the chance to do so.
By the way when I was going to Cardiff Arms Park all those years ago I thought the prices were too high then, so it seems that no matter which era we are in prices are always high.
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It seems to me that if Wales want to improve on the current game plan they need to find a piece of ground outside the stadium and have a game of contact rugby. When that has finished they will, hopefully, have got all the unenforced errors that currently appear in the first half of the game out of the system so that they can start the game proper in the frame of mind that appears in the second half. If they start like that by the "third" half they should be capable of beating anyone.
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If my team (Pumas) would play a World Cup game in my city, you can bet your life I'd sell my Mother to get tickets, no matter how much they cost and if there are toilets or good beer at the stadium.
Support your team !!!!
At least you have something to feel good about, as opposed as the rest of the 6N.
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