主播大秀 Television programmes听 permalink
India's Daughter - Storyville
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Message 1.听
Posted by Guv-nor (U7476305) on Wednesday, 4th March 2015
Schedule Change.
4 March 2015 22:00 主播大秀 Four
Was going to be Sunday.
The story of the brutal gang rape and murder of 23-year-old medical student Jyoti on a moving bus in Delhi in 2012, and the unprecedented protests and riots which this horrific event ignited throughout India, leading to the demand for changes in attitudes towards women. The film examines the values and mindsets of the rapists, and interviews the two lawyers who defended the men convicted of Jyoti's rape and murder.
See also
主播大秀 statement in response to inquiries about forthcoming documentary Storyville - India鈥檚 Daughter
Article by the director (it is not easy reading)
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Message 2
Posted by CannotResistThisOne (U15930232) on Wednesday, 4th March 2015
I was going to watch this on Sunday. Too much abuse on the news right now to be able to watch this tonight. Schedule-shifters!
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Message 3
Posted by Guv-nor (U7476305) on Wednesday, 4th March 2015
Not something to go to bed on any night in my opinion. I shall watch it in the afternoon.
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Message 4
Posted by madauntydawn (U6675998) on Wednesday, 4th March 2015
Thanks Guv-nor.
That is going to be a difficult watch, but so important that this documentary was made. -
Message 5
Posted by Sandstrom (U14413284) on Wednesday, 4th March 2015
I hope the Sunday schedule, which will now be a repeat, is also shown.
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Message 6
Posted by SometimesInvisiblePoster (U9636067) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
Having listened to an interview with Leslee Udwin, the film maker, and reading about things the bus driver, and the lawyer for the rapists said, not sure I could bear to watch this. What kind of world do we live in where women can be disrespected and treated so badly?
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Message 7
Posted by olicana_man (U14156932) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
Shocking statements by the rapists and by the defence team.
"Unmarried women shouldn't go out after dark, she shouldn't have struggled".
Indian society and education system has a lot to answer for.
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No wonder Indian Police sought injunction to stop it showing in India. -
Message 8
Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
I'm not sure I can watch it either.
Reading this was bad enough. -
Message 9
Posted by SometimesInvisiblePoster (U9636067) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
Exactly how I felt Cricket, this bit sums it up, a no win situation....
"showed no remorse and kept expressing bewilderment that such a fuss was being made about this rape, when everyone was at it." -
Message 10
Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
I simply don't understand. Even if they see women out alone (and she wasn't alone anyway) as something they should have access to - dear God, what am I writing? - how can they justify the violence, the barbarity, the multilation, the *death* of another human being??? I just ... it just doesn't make sense - and nor should it, I know, but I can't get near to understanding that mindset.
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Message 11
Posted by Dee_host (U15846799) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
I'm not sure I can watch it either.听
Me neither.
I really want to have seen it, but I don't know when I'm going to be in the right state of mind to watch it.
The press it's been getting has been upsetting enough.
I need to keep my rage levels down. -
Message 12
Posted by olicana_man (U14156932) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
I'm not sure I can watch it either.听
Me neither.
I really want to have seen it, but I don't know when I'm going to be in the right state of mind to watch it.
The press it's been getting has been upsetting enough.
I need to keep my rage levels down.听 What are you talking about?
These forums are not about you and how you feel. -
Message 13
Posted by Chris Huenemoerder (U16227413) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
@olicana_man
What are you talking about?
They are about how viewers feel about 主播大秀 programming. -
Message 14
Posted by Pammi (U16243838) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
Well Done 主播大秀 for bringing the transmission forward and enabling us to see the documentary.
Powerful documentary showing views from all sides that contribute to misogyny - especially institutionalised misogny.... what with 250 sitting members of parliament with charges of rape, murder etc against them (said in the documentary according to the defence lawyer AP Singh), no wonder the Indian goverment proceeded with the ban on the film.
The 'house' has to be brought to order! -
Message 15
Posted by Gizmomoo (U10999499) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
I'm not sure I can watch it either.听
Me neither.
I really want to have seen it, but I don't know when I'm going to be in the right state of mind to watch it.
The press it's been getting has been upsetting enough.
I need to keep my rage levels down.听 I had enough trouble restraining myself from throwing something at the TV news last night. I don't think I could bear a whole programme but then I think about what the poor victim went through and I feel a bit of a copout.
My husband was so disgusted by the prisoner's words that it really threw him for quite some time. -
Message 16
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
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Message 17
Posted by Lee (U1149673) ** on Thursday, 5th March 2015
What are you talking about?
These forums are not about you and how you feel. 听
Surely that's exactly what these forums are about???? -
Message 18
Posted by olicana_man (U14156932) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
What are you talking about?
These forums are not about you and how you feel. 听
Surely that's exactly what these forums are about????听 This forum is about the issue not about whether xyz decides not to watch it in case it upsets them. Self obsession perhaps? -
Message 19
Posted by Chris Huenemoerder (U16227413) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
No. Not self obsession. This program is VERY difficult for poeple to watch. It is about an evil act, and includes in it, a most egregious piece of self-justification. It is reasonable to let the 主播大秀 know that you are troubled, and find it difficult to watch such programming. It is a legitimate response to a 主播大秀 program, and it is not wrong to say so.
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Message 20
Posted by Lee (U1149673) ** on Thursday, 5th March 2015
This forum is about the issue not about whether xyz decides not to watch it in case it upsets them. Self obsession perhaps? 听
Sorry olicana_man, but I think you've got it completely the wrong way round. This forum is not about the 'issues', it's about people's points of view about 主播大秀 television programmes. -
Message 21
Posted by SometimesInvisiblePoster (U9636067) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
What are you talking about?
These forums are not about you and how you feel. 听
Surely that's exactly what these forums are about????听 This forum is about the issue not about whether xyz decides not to watch it in case it upsets them. Self obsession perhaps?听
olicana_man you have been unnecessarily rude to both Dee and Lee, and to some extent those of us who feel watching the programme might be too upsetting.
Arer you man or woman enough to apologise? -
Message 22
Posted by hollybeau (U13700692) ** on Thursday, 5th March 2015
I watched the programme but it wasn't easy.The pathetic excuses given for this most horrific act would be laughable if not so serious.I'm not one for calling for the death penalty but I could make an exception in this case, so awful was Jyoti's attack and subsequent death.
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Message 23
Posted by Primrose (U16092747) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
I was going to watch this on Sunday. Too much abuse on the news right now to be able to watch this tonight. Schedule-shifters!听 I was going to record this and watch it, but of course, as it was shifted from Sunday to last night, it wasn't featured in the tv guide. Nor did I see any trailers for it. I only know about it now because I saw this thread.
Thanks for that, bbc. -
Message 24
Posted by Prophet Tenebrae (U5995226) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
Dare I say, for anyone that thinks that India is a tolerant modern country and isn't it all lovely and wouldn't it be nice to go there when you retire like in the Best Exotic Marigold Hotel - this presents a rather different picture, with the kind of view of women you'd think were out of the ISIS handbook, rather than that of the world's largest democracy.
I can't say I'm surprised India wants to keep a lid on this.
While I certainly think those involved couldn't find the end of the hangman's noose fast enough, I think it goes without saying that the problem is clearly so endemic that India's population problem might be half-way solved if the rapists were all summarily executed but obviously, that's not really a practical solution - appealing as it may be.
The fact this documentary isn't going to be shown in India suggests that despite the outcry over Jyoti, there is an institutional/government disinclination to tackle the issue, which means a change in attitudes will be, at best, glacial.
Still, one can only hope that people seeing that India isn't a benign and spiritually enlightened bastion of egalitarianism (as many oft seem to think of it). -
Message 25
Posted by Gizmomoo (U10999499) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
I wouldn't be surprised if the 主播大秀 showed it again on Sunday Primrose. They brought forward the transmission so it could be seen in as many places as possible before the Indian Government could ban it.
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Message 26
Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
All very very depressing
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Message 27
Posted by madauntydawn (U6675998) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
Perhaps if the mothers raised their sons differently...........................
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Message 28
Posted by Stephen Jones - in our hearts we are Greenlanders (U1175342) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
Anything bad that happens to women in any country is terrible.
But why is the media yet again singling out India when there are far worse places for women, like Afghanistan, Iraq, "pakistan", Iran, Saudi Arabia etc.? -
Message 29
Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
Because of this one horrific rape and murder. It highlighted just how ingrained the misogyny is.
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Message 30
Posted by Prophet Tenebrae (U5995226) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
Anything bad that happens to women in any country is terrible.
But why is the media yet again singling out India when there are far worse places for women, like Afghanistan, Iraq, "pakistan", Iran, Saudi Arabia etc.?听 Yes because misogyny in the Middle East is never mentioned...
I'm amazed your rock gets Internet access. -
Message 31
Posted by GARGLEBLASTER (U3191065) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
Almost as bad as the rape were the two mealy mouthed lawyers defending the rapists.
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Message 32
Posted by Primrose (U16092747) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
I wouldn't be surprised if the 主播大秀 showed it again on Sunday Primrose. They brought forward the transmission so it could be seen in as many places as possible before the Indian Government could ban it.听 You could be right, but I didn't want to miss the chance of seeing it, so I've just watched it on iPlayer, a not entirely satisfactory way to see any programme, but better than nothing.
To say I was appalled at what I saw is an understatement. The violence of the rape was truly terrible and I couldn't believe that anyone could defend such a crime and yet the two lawyers seemed to think that it was the girl's own fault! These are supposedly educated men.
I won't say any more, because I expect there are people on here who haven't yet watched it. -
Message 33
Posted by Guv-nor (U7476305) on Thursday, 5th March 2015
A harrowing and powerful documentary. In part because it kept a close focus on the one event and aftermath.
Various elements stood out:
Film of the violent suppression of protests by riot police.
A total lack of remorse by the perpetrator and his seeking to reapportion blame to the victim.
The attitude of the defence lawyers.
But also:
The restrained calm of so many contributors who had every reason to be anything but.
Especially her parents
The Singhs were poor, as were the families of the rapists. But Jyoti grew up well-adjusted and only months from qualifying as a doctor as the result of her hard work and their sacrifices.
I can only hope the words of her father, Badri Singh, are not forgotten 鈥淚n death she has lit such a torch not only in this country but throughout the whole world ..... I wish that whatever darkness there is in the world should be dispelled by this light.鈥 -
Message 34
Posted by Bonny (U14396592) ** on Thursday, 5th March 2015
鈥淚n death she has lit such a torch not only in this country but throughout the whole world ..... I wish that whatever darkness there is in the world should be dispelled by this light.鈥 听
Had to re quote this Guv, as being profoundly moving. I had no idea of this until now, and of course words fail me. There seems no end to this barbaric treatment of women in certain societies, but as the Internet has led to knowledge much of what has been hidden is emerging. This is good, but what if anything can be done about it? How does anyone bring together the differences between the East and West?
It could take at least 50 years for any radical change to even be tolerated, so embedded seem those of the East.
I have absolutely no idea of why this has only just reached my consciousness and of course feel sickened by it. I see no way out for now, but applaud those who try.
The saddest part is....all this is NOT going to improve inter racial emotions. Christ, this is awful. Sorry Guv, seems as if I'm trying to dump this in your lap.
Not the case of course. I will watch the programme. -
Message 35
Posted by Tweeet (U15280056) on Friday, 6th March 2015
Absolutely disgraceful and shocking...India should be very ashamed of itself.
The fact that after the sentencing to death of these dregs of society, the man interviewed said he stood by every word he said at the time....
"if my daughter or sister engaged in pre marital activities and disgraced herself and allowed herself to lose face and character by doing such things, I would most certainly take this sort of sister or daughter to my farmhouse and in front of my entire family I would put petrol on her and set her alight".
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Message 36
Posted by Primrose (U16092747) on Friday, 6th March 2015
Absolutely disgraceful and shocking...India should be very ashamed of itself.
The fact that after the sentencing to death of these dregs of society, the man interviewed said he stood by every word he said at the time....
"if my daughter or sister engaged in pre marital activities and disgraced herself and allowed herself to lose face and character by doing such things, I would most certainly take this sort of sister or daughter to my farmhouse and in front of my entire family I would put petrol on her and set her alight".听
... and he was one of the legal team, wasn't he? -
Message 37
Posted by Tweeet (U15280056) on Friday, 6th March 2015
Absolutely disgraceful and shocking...India should be very ashamed of itself.
The fact that after the sentencing to death of these dregs of society, the man interviewed said he stood by every word he said at the time....
"if my daughter or sister engaged in pre marital activities and disgraced herself and allowed herself to lose face and character by doing such things, I would most certainly take this sort of sister or daughter to my farmhouse and in front of my entire family I would put petrol on her and set her alight".听
... and he was one of the legal team, wasn't he?听
That I can't remember hun, maybe someone can remind me....whoever he was, he is as bad as the rapists in my eyes. -
Message 38
Posted by Primrose (U16092747) on Friday, 6th March 2015
Absolutely disgraceful and shocking...India should be very ashamed of itself.
The fact that after the sentencing to death of these dregs of society, the man interviewed said he stood by every word he said at the time....
"if my daughter or sister engaged in pre marital activities and disgraced herself and allowed herself to lose face and character by doing such things, I would most certainly take this sort of sister or daughter to my farmhouse and in front of my entire family I would put petrol on her and set her alight".听
... and he was one of the legal team, wasn't he?听
That I can't remember hun, maybe someone can remind me....whoever he was, he is as bad as the rapists in my eyes.听
I agree with you.
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Message 39
Posted by olicana_man (U14156932) on Friday, 6th March 2015
Absolutely disgraceful and shocking...India should be very ashamed of itself.
The fact that after the sentencing to death of these dregs of society, the man interviewed said he stood by every word he said at the time....
"if my daughter or sister engaged in pre marital activities and disgraced herself and allowed herself to lose face and character by doing such things, I would most certainly take this sort of sister or daughter to my farmhouse and in front of my entire family I would put petrol on her and set her alight".听
... and he was one of the legal team, wasn't he?听
That I can't remember hun, maybe someone can remind me....whoever he was, he is as bad as the rapists in my eyes.听
I agree with you.听
Note how he said "daughter or sister".
Boys can't disgrace themselves, eh?.
Medieval Indian culture!!! -
Message 40
Posted by Primrose (U16092747) on Friday, 6th March 2015
Absolutely disgraceful and shocking...India should be very ashamed of itself.
The fact that after the sentencing to death of these dregs of society, the man interviewed said he stood by every word he said at the time....
"if my daughter or sister engaged in pre marital activities and disgraced herself and allowed herself to lose face and character by doing such things, I would most certainly take this sort of sister or daughter to my farmhouse and in front of my entire family I would put petrol on her and set her alight".听
... and he was one of the legal team, wasn't he?听
That I can't remember hun, maybe someone can remind me....whoever he was, he is as bad as the rapists in my eyes.听
I agree with you.听
Note how he said "daughter or sister".
Boys can't disgrace themselves, eh?.
Medieval Indian culture!!!听
If boys disgrace themselves, it's considered the woman's fault. She tempted him in ways that he was unable to resist, even though he's supposedly a strong and intelligent human being. Either that or she asked for what she got because she was behaving in such a way as to make her as worthless as trash in the gutter.
I was pleased to see that as many men as women were protesting about this situation though. They were young, of course, but hopefully their generation will bring about the change in attitude that is so desperately needed. -
Message 41
Posted by curiousaphra (U12116668) on Saturday, 7th March 2015
I thought the programme was great fur such a shocking and depressing story. For all the mysogenistic and outdated thinking from the defence lawyers and the rapists themselves, we did see Indian lawyers and some politicians speaking on behalf of women. And many man amongst those demonstrating after Joyti's murder.
Yes, no wonder India doesn't want this shown. It prides itself on being a democracy. As well as growing economically. But the country still has a long way to go both - re as valuing women in society beyond a dometic/child rearing role and in improving the lives of billions who still live in poverty.
I'm glad I watched for Joyti's parents' sake who have put their story forward with great dignity in hope for change in attitudes to women in their country. -
Message 42
Posted by Guv-nor (U7476305) on Sunday, 8th March 2015
Anybody who missed India's Daughter because it was a late addition to the schedule India's Daughter is still being shown in the original slot tonight.
8th March 2015 22:00 主播大秀 Four -
Message 43
Posted by jennyj (U15939066) on Monday, 9th March 2015
I find it odd that 'India' (whatever that refers to!)(eg, 'the Indian government'?) objects to this programme. Surely it all helps towards changing attitudes towards women in India and therefore should be welcomed?
Just 'hushing up' the nasty side of life doesn't make it go away, does it? Exposure helps to change, and should be welcomed. -
Message 44
Posted by Prophet Tenebrae (U5995226) on Monday, 9th March 2015
I find it odd that 'India' (whatever that refers to!)(eg, 'the Indian government'?) objects to this programme. Surely it all helps towards changing attitudes towards women in India and therefore should be welcomed?
Just 'hushing up' the nasty side of life doesn't make it go away, does it? Exposure helps to change, and should be welcomed.听 I would have thought that the documentary made it abundantly clear that apparently at all levels of Indian society - from the the unemployed all the way to lawyers, politicians and police there are those who think that things are just fine as they are.
It seems that the cultural norms in India are such that many aren't just reluctant for the status quo to change but actively opposed to it.
Of course, we shouldn't be complacent here - apparently one of the defence lawyers in the whole Rotherham child sex debacle has accused 11-13 year old girls of being slags. -
Message 45
Posted by jennyj (U15939066) on Monday, 9th March 2015
Yet, strangely enough, the Indian government is not objecting to the film on the grounds of 'We like things as they are, thank you very much'!!!!!
They seem to be trotting out guff about how dare our former colonial exploiters criticise us.....
Re Rotherham, I would think that a defence lawyer that argues that children are slags is not going to win round a jury.....???? (Damn well hope not!) -
Message 46
Posted by Jelliss (U14666069) on Tuesday, 10th March 2015
"Of course, we shouldn't be complacent here - apparently one of the defence lawyers in the whole Rotherham child sex debacle has accused 11-13 year old girls of being slags."
Very true, this type of comment is commonplace here. Only the other day they were talking about the 15 year old girls that travelled to Syria in similar terms, in the Green Room. -
Message 47
Posted by Gizmomoo (U10999499) on Tuesday, 10th March 2015
< sigh >
No they weren't.
It was discussed that they would be used by the ISIS men and it was discussed that their was little sympathy for their stupidity in travelling there to become wives but it was not discussed that they were slags. -
Message 48
Posted by Jelliss (U14666069) on Tuesday, 10th March 2015
Someone said they had no sympathy for them because they only had themselves to blame. So some 15 year olds are children that are groomed.....and others are adults that make bad choices and shouldn't expect any sympathy. Nice attitude.
And someone else also said all Arab men are "uglies" and that it's a punishment from God. They're such lovely people, the green room. -
Message 49
Posted by Gizmomoo (U10999499) on Tuesday, 10th March 2015
So no one said they were slags then.
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Message 50
Posted by jennyj (U15939066) on Tuesday, 10th March 2015
< sigh >
No they weren't.
It was discussed that they would be used by the ISIS men and it was discussed that their was little sympathy for their stupidity in travelling there to become wives but it was not discussed that they were slags.听 Hmm, interesting comparison, and one that brought me up short, too, so well made.
Pondering it, I think the thing that appals me most about the girls who've decamped to Syria to join Isis is that they cannot be unaware of what Isis does to people - indeed, Isis seems to glory in their own atrocities.
So, to me, if you reach the age of 15, and think it's perfectly OK human behaviour to throw people off roofs to kill them, cut their hands off, cut their heads off, and burn them alive, well, maybe I don't have any sympathy for teenagers who think that's OK.Maybe I think that it's better such people should be out of this country (though I pity any country that gets them!)
And I certainly don't have sympathy for their parents who have failed to teach them and bring them up to be appalled at such cruelty.
In contrast, the Rotherham/Oxford victims were not seeking to join up with people who were cruel to others. They intended no harm to anyone else. So that is why I have more sympathy for them.
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