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well well what you say?

as he gets more and more crazy a little bit of me likes him more is that wrong?
oh yes I was first

he has to believe he's right - the cry of persecutors down the ages

and just when the vampires had sworn to stop!

so it looks like Lloyd is part of the crew of the Alora Gay now I think that was the planes name if wrong please correct

enola gay???

ewan: you really do pride yourself on getting your comments in first don't you?

Lloyd is getting madder and scarier by the day.

LOL Everyone fights over first comment you know!

LLOYD!!! WHY DID YOU DO IT? Maybe he will be a good duy later on?

Well, it was always on the cards wasn't it? Somehow I don't think either of them are dead. They can't really do the programme without Mitchell and Ivan's body was still there at the end of the episode instead of disappearing like Lauren's in S1.

Guy* lol can spell today

who are the monsters now? humans or supernaturals?

6) I'm male, we are children

11: It usually is the humans. God, nothing scarier than a mob of angry lemmings. How do you think wars start?

As in the trail we saw the wolf in Georges cage and a look at parents evening I'm thinking there might be a Comedy / Drama sprint to the cage

13) Don't forget the hats

12) I'm tempted to tut and say 'no excuse', but if I'm honest, I have rather a superiority complex, and that comment just gives me another excuse to roll my eyes and feel, well, superior. Though not really because I actually don't get much of a hit out of the whole male/female stereotype thing.

Oh, and in addition to my comment 13, I realise that may have come across a little sarky, in which case I'm sorry, I typed without thinking (a common modern-day affliction I fear).

15) Um, maybe I'm just being slow but.... what hats?

17) ep 4 last season George watching a black and white horror movie he comments on the seriously mad hats of the mob

18) Yes, I remember that bit now, it was just a little bit of an abstract reference for me. Don't mind me, I'm slow.

I live in the abstract

(18) I recognised the quote - but how on earth do you remember it was ep4? I mean there's geeks and geeks!!

Hi peeps...first up...must comment on this latest vid....
Lloydy, Lloydy, Lloydy......I see the madness has infected even you now...you are correct on one thing...you are no James Bond!
And 'they would have done the same to you'?...Lloyd baby...what part of All The Vampires Are Now Clean didn't you get?

ok...now to last night's eps as I haven't had time to post comment before now. BTW...thanks Mr P for the Explosion vid..great..and Mr Turner?...geek away baby...!
Read the posts on the last blog...seems I share most people's opinions except those of Celticgrace. The very things which you didn't like about eps 6 made me love it...storylines much more believable, more tension etc.

Dorina...pretty much agreed with all your comments...spot on.

Can't decide about Molly..she seens 'old beyond her years' but maybe that's what happens when you find yourself as a child in her situation. Don't think she's a supernatural but....mmmm

Of course Mitchell survives...foolish to think otherwise..God, he's one of our heroes! Not sure about Ivan but agree with almost everyone else who thinks that he should and what fantastic acting from Paul Rhyes

Reaaaalllly looking forward to seeing how Mitchell deals with Lucy ( love the bitchface addition btw!) ...lost all sympathy for her when she didn't 'save' the vampires.

And yes peeps...let's shed those tears and hold a minute's whatsit for all those vampires who are now dead...again. They had all worked SO hard in their AA meetings and were all clean and their reward?...Kempmaddogface has them all bumped off...I'm feeling their pain.....

21) Complement or insult?

I refuse to feel isolated (22) lol - that's how they begin to get you!

23) Just take it as a compliment (yes, I know I wasn't the one to write it, but there we go). God knows I've learned to after years of being called a freak, geek, nerd and various other similar terms.

(23) whichever - seems youre in the best company? (AT)

Oh and I do NOT like the relish with which he talks about more experiments!

26) I'm so tempted to use Tully's Proverb quote to that

27) push yourself and find your true self Lloyd's true self is a little arrogant and sadistic

Have you ever noticed that old evil guy is really wrinkled, I wonder how old his really is ..?

29) born a few days ago in 1943 so 67

(28) would that be ewan is as ewan does????

29) Um, yeah, I think that one of the requirements for being an old evil guy is kind of being old, evil and yes wrinkled too.

31) "a mirror reflects a mans face but how he's truly known is in the company he keeps"

28) Okay, now I'm scared....

33) I think thats correct

Oh Lloyd. :( I wish he would be good. He seems like such a nice guy other than the habit of blowing up vampires. lol

36) Yeah, that is a bit of a character flaw isn't it? I'm sure he more than makes up for it in other ways. Lol

(33) even better! lol

(37) Yeah just a bit of a flaw. Shame it's not one that we can easily forgive though.

38) But scary, don't you think?

I do my best

(39) Toby believes in repentance for Mitchell - but not sure we could ever forgive Lloyd for trying to kill M ... or Lucy - she cant offer to save him now?

i was screaming at the tv on yesterday with disbelief that he woujld do it...i think he's getting slightly bloodlusty though.
i like you lloyd, i really did

39) A moment of madness; the aphrodisiac of the power of life and death (or indeed death and death) can be extremely apealing.... or at least so I'm told.

brownirisheyes...are we having a love-in as I'm agreeing with your comments to Lloyd!

(42) If Lloyd realises that this is the wrong course of action then I'll think about it. Lucy, I'm not sure if I can ever forgive her, but then I've hated her from the start whereas I've wanting to like Lloyd.

I don't understand his what 'progress' has to do with it, and Lloyd is more than a bit loony, but... the vampires *did* deserve it, it has to be said. By any code of justice, they deserved it.

All of them were murderers several times over. If they were regular people, in the real world, promising not to do it again or displaying remorse would not be sufficient. They would be punished.

The analogy to dropping the bomb is actually not appropriate, because the born killed thousands of innocents. None of the vamps were innocent, no matter how much sympathy we may have for them or how likable they may be.

I love Mitchell, I really do, and he's our protagonist - but if I knew a couple like him and Lucy in real life, I would be urging Lucy to do exactly what she did.

I can see Kemp - and even Lucy - coming to a sticky end - but for some reason cant see Lloyd paying the ultimate price? not sure why? even though what he's done is unforgiveable - he seems more like a pawn than really evil? Bit like Owen ended up?

btw I was sure we'd see Owen again - looks like that was wrong.

48) I don't know about you, but killing one's fiance seems pretty darned evil to me.

no not this series anyway maybe at the very end but don't think so the Owen character played his role no matter how good Greg was

(48) I agree. Lloyd seems to just be used by CenSSA. He seems to be doing all the bad stuff. Bugging the house, monitoring the werewolves in the chamber, blowing up vampires. It's hard to really think of him as a main player. I kind of hope he doesn't die. But then he might come back and make more trouble for our main three. :(

(46) that's why his desent is more upsetting, we hoped that he'd come good, he seemed nice. Now I can see him being in some ways worse than Kemp. Kemp does what he does because he believes it is the Right thing to do, you would never hear him pleading with us to like him. Lloyd seems to be getting a kick out of it despite realising that his 'followers' are unlikely to agree with him. Hense all the excuses, the blame shifting and try to justify himself.

(48) - sorry I wasnt clear - yes killing Annie was about as evil as it gets - I was thinking of him gibbering at the end - and Lloyd getting a bit gibbery here (if that's a word!)

Mbn 47) But by killing, one just lowers down to that level. It would be like going and torturing a whole load of Auschwitz guards (and yes, I'm sure they'd only be getting as good as they gave); then who'd torture their torturers and their torturers etc? They're still people no matter how evil.

(48) Owen was one of the few truly evil and unforgivable characters with no redeming characteristics and no excuse for what he did either.

(52) Yeah. It's like Kemp doesn't bother about what we think. But Lloyd can see that the things he's doing arn't right. It makes it easier for us to see good in Lloyd where there's none of that to be seen in Kemp.

mbn (47) I agree theyre nor innocent - though as Daisy said they didnt ask to be made vampires?

if I knew a couple like M and L ..I think Id rather expect her to hang on a bit ? how could one night be enough?

BETRAYER!!!!! He doesn't deserve to live...

Maybe that was a bit strong, but he could have not sent the message!! Kemp is defnitely a cold hearted killer, although I do see his drive, but Lloyd seems to only have scientific curiousity as his drive!

58) "I was only looking for answers" can be worse than following orders

mbn - "None of the vamps were innocent, no matter how much sympathy we may have for them or how likable they may be."

I'd say the Enola Gay (I must find that OMD track!) analogy was a misguided plea for sympathy.

However, saying they weren't innocent is probably on a par with saying we're not innocent for killing animals for food. Same parallel really - vampires see humans as we see cows/sheep/pigs et al. The only difference is that these days we're too damn squeamish to kill them ourselves. We like them all nicely packaged in Tesco.

I had a thought as this episode was a Pyro episode that could explain the two references the usher Rosie who was zapped and Cortes falling of stage because of the smoke was there a comment about health and safety in there somewhere?

And Lloyd..you told me in London that I had to keep the faith with you....feel that's becoming almost impossible to do!

Just occured to me that he often starts with "I know what you're thinking". Not sure if that's arrogant, manipulative or both but this time if he DID know what a lot of people watching were thinking he'd be one very frighted little bunny ;-)

62) I think he is in a way using us to represent his guilt over what he's done it's not us he's reasoning with it's his own doubts and reservations

64 was referring to 63

oh lloyd your losing any redeaming qualities so fast now. shame that really but you do seem to relish the journey now. And yes i agree he does say 'i know what your thinking' a lot. if you keep knowing what we are thinking then why dont you stop perposly doing things to make us disapointed.

I agree with Shute i eat meat but never could i kill and animal which does make me a bit of a hypocrite. The vamps where tring to stop and our bad guys knew that so i think its pure fear on thier part to kill the vamps, not no good deed for human kind.

Fear drives ppl to maddness

64) but if not Goats beware

I don't trust Lloyd anymore. He seemed so nice and had good intentions, but that's gone downhill rapidly!
A part of me wants him to do something really...heroic...in the end to make up for everything he's done, eg. staking Kemp instead of the vampires [sorry, is that a bit harsh?], or saving someone.

Piratemoose (68). That would be great if he did do something heroic. I'm afraid I can't see it now, somehow. He's really gone down in my estimations, now. I don't think there's any way back for him. I just hope I'm wrong! lol

joooos - Yeah I agree. I'm just hoping he realises what he's doing before it gets *really* messy!

Although blowing up Michell was obviously a big no no from our POV I could be more forgiving of Lloyd killing a room full of mass-murderers IF he wasn't enjoying his experiments so much. Those 4 (maybe more) dead werewolves were people he claimed he was trying to help. Now he's looking forward to getting George into the chamber, and THAT is unforgivable.

gotta watch Lloyds take on the explosion before I comment, get fed-up with him and his beeps thing

firebird 2110 - It's not enjoying it per se in my view. In medieval times the burning of heretics was considered a kindness. Same position here so as far as Lloyd is concerned (if we place the non-humans in the same category) it's not evil.

73) I also might have read about Flaying being employed against Heretics

you gotta love religion tolerance

60 re killing animals) Well said. My argument for vegetarianism really. And now I will change topic before I start singing 'Meat is Murder'.

63) Yeah, I just noticed that too.

67) Haha

Actually no, stuff that, I will sing 'Meat is Murder' after all.

I think its quite funny how Lloyd's first instinct after blowing them up is to go and vlog about it on the internet about how he did it. You fool, Ivan has Twitter, he will find you. :D

Don't really feel betrayed by Lloyd, I accepted he was bad after what he tried to do to Nina.

I still say the question is not if Lloyd is going to get it in the neck but which Vampire is going to catch him.

Mitchell has to find out about Lloyd to find out about Lucy.

the fact that he played a gas man both times means that Ivan stands a chance of survival at least long enough to mention gas leak.

the question I have is who will get him first?

(77) good point DF! if we follow the show's internal world sooner or later an internet using vampire or werewolf would be sure to stumble across CenSSA. I wonder if Kemp knows about Lloydy's little online hobby?

Joining this blog slightly late but..
Agree with 22- totally lost respect for Lucybf really thought she would somehow come through for Mitchell =[ esp as she stopped Nina from exploding in chamber- showing she didn't really agree with the killling.
Also looks like CenSSA are gonna get worse and worse- as the clip for next weeks ep shows them meeting with George. (NOOOOOO)
(56)- but surely if Lloyd knows his actions are worng and still does them that makes him worse..?
At least kemp has some sort of reasoning..?

Not sure where this fits in, but there's a mahoosive difference between revenge and justice. Kemp seems to be driven by revenge, while no system of justice exists for the vampires except the brick/teeth version they mete out among themselves.

I can kind of get Lucy's scientific interest in how the three types would manage in a domestic situation, but to me, this blowing up of vampires because they don't do/believe the same thing you do smacks strongly of religion-obsessed people with backpacks on tube trains.

Not to take away from the mass murder bit, obv. And I'll leave it there.

I would be interested to see how this would all look to us if we didn't know Mitchell, George or Annie. I mean we are annoyed at CenSSA for killing half the vampire community but how many human lives does that save in the future? Hundreds? Thousands?

These vampires would live forever and their natural instinct is to kill others or else convert them. Think of someone like Herrick, he was the worst of the worst but think how many people he converted like Mitchell for example who in turn killed hundreds and converted others like Lauren who killed and killed. It just goes on and on, like the thing about rats having 1000s of descendants after a few years.

Kind of playing devil's advocate here (or God's advocate if we are agreeing with Kemp haha) but its an interesitng thing to think about.

The monsters aren't dead! they're just mascarading (sp?) as scientists!!! I mean they have just preoved themselves worse than the vampires... I mean Vampires kill from need....

Also... it's quite well... racist, lol... 3 vamps killed his wife so there for all vamps are evil... but we all know just cos say a black guy killed someone we don't go out killing all black people!

Anyway... Lloyd has now gone beyond the way of no return... I was thinking he was nice and was thinking he'd cme away from censsa but not now... he is evil and must be destroyed! lol....

11: Age old argument. Constantly rehashed in the media. Think of Doctor Who s4 Midnight. The humans were arguably monsters then. The film Avatar. Same situation. Planet 51 (I think that's the one). Same again.

I'm going to adapt the earlier-mentioned maxim "A mirror may show a man's face, but it's his choices that show who he really is."

And for the record, I think that of the three, Lucy is the only one who could be described as a monster. The others are ignorant of what vampires really are. She knows, and she still said "Do it."

As for the mini-topic of vegetarianism (aren't we drifting a bit close to the world of Twilight here?) I think the killing of animals for food is natural. Humans are biologically able to digest meat, therefore why not? If you want to be a veggie that's your choice and I'm not slating it, but me personally, I don't feel guilty.

thesigninggirl- hubby said pretty much the same thing when we were wathcing that documentry (you know... the one with the wobbly head!!... won't tell you what hubby said about the presenter!!!) And it got us onto the subject of vampires' feeding habits and he just matter of factly said "so what" about vampires feeding off humans... he thinks it's perfectly normal and ok seeing as how that's what they eat and we feed off animals he sees no difference, lol... mind you... think if it happened to be him as main course he might see the difference, lol.

If you watch carefully you can pin point the moment where darlin' lloyd became evil. If it killed Ivan i shall DESTROY him! Muhahahaha xx P.S very betrayed =[

... also adored the "Daisy" speech. He must not die!!! xx

86/ You have me behind you, i dont want Ivan to die, he loved Daisy, but if he does die, we have 2 very unhappy vampires (Daisy and Mitchell) Plus anyone who survies and is on Ivans twitter feed. So i think we can arange an angry mob...

88 continued/ I mean, he was 'this' close t wiping out an entire branch of Argos, shame it wasn't Ikea, i hate that shop :@ and he cant die!!!

Hmmm all religions teach that God is a caring and compassionate God and if we are truly sorry for what we've done wrong, no matter what, then God will forgive us.
Mitchell sacrificed himself and became a vampire to save his men. Yes he has murdered, went to excess in everything he did, but is now showing a conscience, trying to give up killing, drinking, and is trying to help other vampires do the same, go against their nature. In my book that is earning him and them a few merits.
Kemp is killing in the name of God--big no no, whatever the provocation, and showing no remorse whatsoever.Goes without saying that Lucy is the same, taking life(whatever form) in God's name.
Lloyd also knows what he is doing, perhaps feeling guilt, but still doing it. In my book Kemp, Lloyd and Lucy are the ones beyond redemtion.

Part of me is warming towards Ivan being written out. It could give Daisy more of an excuse to get involved with the actual plot, she kind of peaked with the episode involving her daughter so she kind of needs an excuse to get all those feelings exposed.

91 Mm, we haven't seen much of Daisy recently, have we? Not since Mitchell became 'king'. I wonder how she got on getting on the wagon.

oh dear lloyd what have you done...loved the last line, but dont think mitchell would have tried to wipe out a whole communtity. Cant wait for the next episode to see where things go now and i hope Ivans ok!

(92)and for all others wondering about daisey, i read in the radio times preview that she is coming back in this next episode!!

the bottom line is this. i don't know who's right and who's wrong, but it would be a major injustice if lloyd has killed mitchell and denied me the pleasure of any more torso shots...

if, however, mitchell is alive he needs to go and tidy his bedroom immediately! what a slob! actually he needs to tidy his bedroom bare chested with a variety of camera angles to capture every move!!

I hope Mitchell rips all at CENSSA throats out!!! Either that or Nina escapes during a transformation and does a good job on them, that would be a good ending to this series!!!

I’ve found that I can’t be angry at or hate Lloyd. I hate what he did but I don’t hate him. All I feel now is sorry for him. The man from his early blogs; who wanted to change the world, help people and help Type 1, 2 and 3’s seems to be dead. He may have been nieve to begine with but he was kind and full of hope. I don’t believe for a second that he wanted to kill them because he always look so sad now but that does not excues what he did.

Some times the prise is to high. There has to be a point where we say enough is enough. The Nazi experiments on Jews was said to be the prise of progress but it was too high. What they were doing to werewolves could, just possably, be said to be a prise worth paying because they were looking for a cure but this was just murder. There was no progress made.

Just because someone would not weep for us does not mean we should not feel bad for them. It is our sorrow at our actions that make us better thanthe ‘monsters.’ If I was attacked and I killed my attacker, in self-defence, I would feel terrible for their death. Ultimately our humanity is defined by our emotions and our actions not by our wether we are ‘human’ or not. A human can be a monster and a type 1, 2 or 3 can be a good person. If we can’t feel sorry for someone then how are we any better than them?

Despite what he did I hope Lloyd survives but I doubt he will.

The bomb will cause problems now, so the opposite of what CenSSA want. Those who survive/ weren't there will be hell bent on killing humans - as will vampires living outside Bristol !! Whilst if they had left them alone, and their going clean worked, or at least reduced their activities, things would be better for the peeps of Bristol and if the behaviour spread, elsewhere too !!

96 - but would you feel guilty if you killed a (say) dog that was attacking you/ children. In Kemp's mind the vampires are not human so should not be afforded the same sympathy - and this has washed off on Lucy & Lloyd

ChubbyCheshire (98) my view of humanity is very different to Kemp’s. Even if I did see vampires as not human they are still sentient beings who were once human. If they are monsters we should morn the fact that they can not be saved not hate them for what they are. A wild beast should not be hated but it should be feared. A shark that kills a human is not evil and if that shark has to be killed to save human lives that is still sad. Death in any form is sad but often necessary. What they did was not necessary. I would kill a dog to save others/myself but it would still be sad that the dog had to die.

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